Ferrari uses belt driven cams?

[disappoint]

Video of the making of a Ferrari engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdcoVurVY30

Ferrari is using a timing belt as opposed to chain at least for this engine:

If you skip to 5:50 you can see the timing belt. Why don't they use a timing chain or gears?

Do they just like having to service the engine more often or what?

Timing chain is more reliable IMHO.

Is there any advantage to a timing belt versus a timing chain at all?

 

[herm0016]

mass, noise, I would think max rpm also, but i'm not sure about that.

 

[nerp]

It's not like Ferrari slaps on a belt you can pick up at Autozone for $8.99.

 

[exdeath]

It's not like Ferrari slaps on a belt you can pick up at Autozone for $8.99.

Nor does anyone else...

Timing belts for even the biggest hoopty are still $40+ for OEM.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Video of the making of a Ferrari engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdcoVurVY30

Ferrari is using a timing belt as opposed to chain at least for this engine:

If you skip to 5:50 you can see the timing belt. Why don't they use a timing chain or gears?

Do they just like having to service the engine more often or what?

Timing chain is more reliable IMHO.

Is there any advantage to a timing belt versus a timing chain at all?

Less noise, lower weight. Ducati uses a timing belt on their engines too. How an engine sounds is very important when it comes to vehicles like Ferrari and Ducati.

 

[Ferzerp]

Less noise, lower weight. Ducati uses a timing belt on their engines too. How an engine sounds is very important when it comes to vehicles like Ferrari and Ducati.

You also get to sell parts and service when the belt fails! Even more so if it's an interference engine.

 

[Zargon]

chain driven cams sound likday sexy too


but mostly already pointed out, weight.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You also get to sell parts and service when the belt fails! Even more so if it's an interference engine.

They have very low maintenance intervals on a Ferrari so belt failure would only be due to extreme neglect. Some of those cars require a belt change every 15,000 miles and it is a procedure that requires removing the engine from the car so expect to pay at least $5k for that service.

 

[halik]

that's the reason why ferrari service isn't cheap - belt service is engine-out for most cars (with 360 you can do it from the inside).

 

[Jimzz]

They have very low maintenance intervals on a Ferrari so belt failure would only be due to extreme neglect. Some of those cars require a belt change every 15,000 miles and it is a procedure that requires removing the engine from the car so expect to pay at least $5k for that service.

Yep there's a reason you see so many exotic cars for sale at certain mileage points.

30k is the one you do the timing belts, adjust the valves, etc...

Heres what is done at certain mileage...
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/a.../22426d1269299415-30k-service-maintenance.pdf

Oh and its 30k or 3years for the timing belts, which ever comes first.

 

[Ferzerp]

They have very low maintenance intervals on a Ferrari so belt failure would only be due to extreme neglect. Some of those cars require a belt change every 15,000 miles and it is a procedure that requires removing the engine from the car so expect to pay at least $5k for that service.

Ok, you get to sell lots of inflated maintenance services on the crazy maintenance intervals

 

[996GT2]

mass, noise, I would think max rpm also, but i'm not sure about that.

Probably not this. I think it just comes down to manufacturer preference at the end of the day. Max RPM is a lot more dependent on other factors, like the stroke of the engine (high RPM usually means low stroke, < 75-85mm).

For example, Honda's F20C has a 9000 RPM redline and used a timing chain.

 

[cbrsurfr]

If you can afford a Ferrari then you can afford the maintenance on it. 5K for engine service is nothing. Quote out a full CCB service on a F430, maybe they've come down but at one point it was 28K for the rotors and 2K for the pads.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Ok, you get to sell lots of inflated maintenance services on the crazy maintenance intervals

You should see what happens to a Ducati engine if the belts fail while the engine is running. :biggrin:

I need to replace my belts soon. Every 2 years or 15,000 miles and valve adjustments every 7,500 miles. I have almost 14,000 miles and it has been over 2 years.

 

[Ferzerp]

Quote out a full CCB service on a F430, maybe they've come down but at one point it was 28K for the rotors and 2K for the pads.

Unless you're a track driver though, those rotors will last the life of the car.

 

[twinrider1]

Less noise, lower weight. Ducati uses a timing belt on their engines too. How an engine sounds is very important when it comes to vehicles like Ferrari and Ducati.

Looking forward to Ferrari going with a dry clutch. clakety clakety clakety.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Looking forward to Ferrari going with a dry clutch. clakety clakety clakety.

Oddly enough Ducati has gone away from the dry clutch in recent years.

 

[boomhower]

Yep there's a reason you see so many exotic cars for sale at certain mileage points.

30k is the one you do the timing belts, adjust the valves, etc...

Heres what is done at certain mileage...
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/a.../22426d1269299415-30k-service-maintenance.pdf

Oh and its 30k or 3years for the timing belts, which ever comes first.

First time I've seen an airbag as a service item, replace after ten years. That's a new one.

 

[twinrider1]

Oddly enough Ducati has gone away from the dry clutch in recent years.

This saddens me. I fling Doug Polen's toes at you for telling me.

 

[Howard]

Ferrari doesn't give a damn about reliability anyway.

 

[pcgeek11]

They have very low maintenance intervals on a Ferrari so belt failure would only be due to extreme neglect. Some of those cars require a belt change every 15,000 miles and it is a procedure that requires removing the engine from the car so expect to pay at least $5k for that service.

That is insane! It must be a pretty shitty belt to require replacement every 15K miles.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Is there any advantage to a timing belt versus a timing chain at all?

Take your pick:

Timing belts do not require a lubrication supply making them simpler to engineer and manufacture.

Timing belts transmit much less shock and vibration to the valvetrain.

Timing belts are quieter.

Timing belts have MUCH less stretch than chains which makes maintaining tension simpler (in fact, most belts require no active tensioner at all).

Timing belts are lighter.

Timing belts suffer fewer frictional losses.

ZV

 

[NutBucket]

What's your definition of an "active" tensioner Zen? Something more than spring loaded?

 

[Zenmervolt]

What's your definition of an "active" tensioner Zen? Something more than spring loaded?

Even the spring loaded tensioners used in some timing belt designs are locked down after the tension is set during install. These spring tensioners merely (ostensibly) negate the need for a separate tool to set the tension (as is required when setting the tension with a roller on an eccentric cam).

Timing chains typically have hydraulic tensioners that do not get locked down, but instead actively place a load on the chain to take up the naturally-occurring slack that happens when a chain ages.

While I have seen the occasional timing belt with an active tensioner (the Porsche 968 comes to mind), the vast majority of timing belts use a simple pulley on an eccentric mount because a belt will hold tension essentially indefinitely while chains stretch noticeably. (This is why Harley can have a belt-drive for their motorcycles that will last 60,000+ miles with no maintenance while the chain on my lighter and less powerful 450cc Honda needs to be re-tensioned every couple thousand miles; chains stretch, belts don't.)

Belts aren't the be-all and end-all, of course. Chains tend to fail slowly and give plenty of warning whereas belts tend to just let go somewhat unpredictably if you run them longer than their design life, and chains do have a longer overall service life when there are properly engineered oiling and tensioning systems in place. Chains are also narrower for a given tensile strength.

It's all about the trade-offs.

ZV

 

[NutBucket]

So I guess that just makes me lucky. Honda and Subaru seem to like active tensioners for their belts. Whatever, doesn't make the replacement any harder.