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Ferrari 308 vs...
- Thread starter andylawcc
- Start date
CrackRabbit
Lifer
:laugh:
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
I saw that yesterday. Pretty amusing comparo. I wouldn't want to deal with the maintenance on that Ferrari though. Older Ferraris can be very very expensive to maintain, I don't think the 308's are that bad though.
A friend of mine had a chance to buy a 512bb in the late 80s for $30,000 but it needed a valve job which would have cost an additional $15,000. :shocked: $15,000 for a valve job!!! This is just routine maintenance we're talking about.
A friend of mine had a chance to buy a 512bb in the late 80s for $30,000 but it needed a valve job which would have cost an additional $15,000. :shocked: $15,000 for a valve job!!! This is just routine maintenance we're talking about.
overst33r
Diamond Member
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Not really. 308s have been trading hands for just under/over $30,000 for several years now. It looks like they got a decent deal on their car to be sure, but not really a "steal".
Great car though. 🙂
ZV
iamwiz82
Lifer
LOL...interesting cross-shopping there.
I can't believe those guys thought the "modern ABS" braking would give the Kia the edge...on a closed course where ABS would provide no benefit. They again mention the benefits of ABS later in the section.
Are they putting random oil slicks on the track, or do they just have no clue how to threshold brake?
Still, if I owned an old Ferrari...you can bet I'd do my own maintenance. Parts alone would still kill me, of course.
I can't believe those guys thought the "modern ABS" braking would give the Kia the edge...on a closed course where ABS would provide no benefit. They again mention the benefits of ABS later in the section.
Are they putting random oil slicks on the track, or do they just have no clue how to threshold brake?
Still, if I owned an old Ferrari...you can bet I'd do my own maintenance. Parts alone would still kill me, of course.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
Yeah right...
GoatMonkey
Golden Member
You know that you have to take out the engine to do just about anything right?
So you are one of those people who assumes because HE cannot do something that no one else can either. I can guarantee you that if I ever bought an old Ferrari I would do the maintenance myself. I used to have a friend that had a foreign auto business and I helped him with Ferraris from time to time. They are more intimidating than difficult. They are also highly over rated.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Interesting. The prices for the 308 are roughly the same as the maintenance costs for my 951.
And to comment on someone else's comment about doing your own work on a Ferrari; they're just like any other car. If you have time and space, you can do the work yourself just fine. People seem intimidated by cars like Porsches and Ferraris, but the simple truth is that they are no more technically difficult to work on than any other car. Yes, you may have to drop the engine to work on it, but so what? You had to drop the engine on a VW Beetle for a lot of things too and people eventually figured out how to get the engine out of that car in under 30 minutes. All you need is time and space. With a little patience the first few times, you'll have the experience to zip right through.
The odometer gear on my 951 broke recently and it required replacing either the gear, or the speedometer. The speedometer was around $500 (for a new part), a new gear was $25, but required taking the speedometer apart to get at. Worried the hell out of me, but I decided that I'd learn. First time taking the speedometer apart (to check which of the two types of gears it used) took me a couple hours. When the gear came in the mail, I had the speedometer out, apart, repaired, and replaced in the car in under 30 minutes. Intimidating jobs are only intimidating, they aren't actually difficult.
With the right attitude and a place to work in, anyone can work on any car.
ZV
Pliablemoose
Lifer
Um, a freaking chimp can change spark plugs & wires, all the other stuff requires are the tools & a shop manual. Most here have built a PC, working on cars is simpler than that.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
Call me crazy but dropping the engine to replace a timing belt every 15k miles isn't something I'd care to do myself and even the most adept enthusiast isn't equipped to do this sort of maintenance themselves. Ferraris aren't "just like any other car", they require a lot more routine maintenance and if neglected they will fail which will likely cost you more to fix than the cost of the car itself.
Congrats on fixing the speedometer in your Porsche though...:roll:
And how long does it take to get 15k miles on a Ferrari? Five years? Seven? Sure, it's a pain, but the minimum requirements for dropping an engine are (a)jack, (b)jack stands, (c)a bunch of blocks. A crawler is nice, a covered area in which to work is nice, but if you really really wanted to you could maintain your Ferrari in a Wal-Mart parking lot.
"Even the most adept enthusiast isn't equipped to do this sort of maintenance themselves"?
Maybe you don't own a jack and a decent set of tools, but I do...last year I dropped the engine on my MR2 in a friend's carport, changed the clutch, timing belt, and waterpump, and then bolted it back up. Was it a royal pain? You bet. Did I save myself thousands of dollars? Yup. Dropping an engine isn't rocket surgery.😛
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
If you own a Ferrari you aren't parking it in a carport and I'd say probably 99.999% of Ferrari owners aren't even going to change their own oil. I doubt any of them want to either. I know I wouldn't. My time is worth more than that.
BTW-I wouldn't let you work on my Ferrari either. 😛
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
Heh, in the 1/4 mile the Ferrari was only 0.1 second faster and 3MPH faster than my truck. And I'm hardly a professional driver.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
And when is the last time you disassembled a gauge completely (all gears pulled out and laid on the table without diagrams to tell you how to put it back together)? It's only a step or two away from watch repair. And way to completely miss the point.
As far as what's necessary to drop the engine, the average enthusiast has the tools to do that. The "adept" enthusiast will have a lift and a transmission jack. Of course, I'm talking about real enthusiasts and not the "wine and cheese" crowd. Let's be honest here, the "wine and cheese" crowd is not going to be buying a 308. The people that are going to be buying 308s are going to be middle and upper-middle class enthusiasts who enjoy working on their own cars.
Judging from the prices and listed items in the service recommendations, the 308 is no more maintenance-intensive than my 951. I doubt that the 308 has anything worse than the 26 hour clutch job required by the 951.
ZV
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
I've done quite a bit of work on my motorcycle myself and I've done some repairs on my other cars I've owned over the years but I would rather leave something as expensive as a Ferrari to the professionals. I'm sure there is a fair amount of knowledge that only comes from years of having worked on them and I'd rather not screw it up quite frankly.
If I make a mistake on a Nissan or a BMW it's not that big a deal. If I make a mistake on a Ferrari it could cost me $75,000 to fix (cost of a new V12 engine for a 456).
Even if I owned a 308 I wouldn't be doing timing belts myself. I'd rather have it done by someone with the experience and knowledge to make sure it is done right. When you buy a Ferrari you accept that there will be a fair amount of expensive routine maintenance.
Another reason to pay a professional when servicing a Ferrari is that you have receipts that the work was done and done competently, this is very important for the resale value of the car as well. Anyone who buys and sells Ferraris will tell you that. If you are looking at a car with questionable maintenance history you should pass.
As for working on your 951 I'd say that you're the exception and not the norm...at the very least I judge that by the number of Porsche mechanics around here.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
I think that the difference here is that you're talking about newer cars (456), while we're mostly talking about a 308. A 308 just isn't a "collectible" car, and it's not likely to become one. A timing belt is a timing belt is a timing belt. If you do it wrong on a 944 or a 928 or a 951, you destroy valves. Just like with the Ferrari. And just like my Volvo actually. It's not rocket science to replace.
I'm well aware of the value of service receipts. I have a 3" binder full of them for my 951. I also keep notes of all maintenance that I've done myself on the car and leave them in the binder and haven't had issues with using those as service documentation on any of the cars I've owned (914, 924S, 944 NA). Even doing the work myself, I still need to buy parts and that gives me a receipt. All I have to do is keep those.
Most 944 and 951 owners do their own work. The Porsche mechanics (and believe me there are many around here too) make most of their money on 911s and other, much newer, Porsches. In fact, a large number of Porsche shops do not like to work on the 944 series cars because they are not where the bulk of the profit lies.
Anyone buying a 20+ year old car, even a Porsche or Ferrari, is going to be doing some kind of work on the car themselves unless the car is exceptionally collectible (like a 1948 Tucker or a Duesenberg SJ).
What it comes down to in the end though, is whether the owner is willing to get his or her hands dirty or whether they just want a car to display and not drive and fix.
ZV
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
I would agree with you on that point.
BTW-I was looking on ebay at the 944 Turbos. That might be a fun car to pick up at some point. I've never driven one though. I also like the 928, always been a fan of that car, but many of them are automatics...:thumbsdown:
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