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Fermilab discovers new particle

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Originally posted by: DrPizza
...
So, where the hell did the other 490 grams come from?? Simple: E=mc². The kinetic energy of those marbles was converted to mass during the impact.
...
Click to expand...
Awesome, now all we need to do is shrink a particle accelerator down to the size of a coffee machine, and refine the kinds of particles produced, and voila! We have a food replicator.
Want a cup of coffee? It'll only require, what, maybe the energy of a few atomic bombs to create? 😀
Better watch that it's not too hot coming out of there.

Also be careful not to reverse hot and neutral when wiring it in, or you might wind up with a steaming cup of anti-coffee.

 
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: DrPizza
...
So, where the hell did the other 490 grams come from?? Simple: E=mc². The kinetic energy of those marbles was converted to mass during the impact.
...
Click to expand...
Awesome, now all we need to do is shrink a particle accelerator down to the size of a coffee machine, and refine the kinds of particles produced, and voila! We have a food replicator.
Want a cup of coffee? It'll only require, what, maybe the energy of a few atomic bombs to create? 😀
Better watch that it's not too hot coming out of there.

Also be careful not to reverse hot and neutral when wiring it in, or you might wind up with a steaming cup of anti-coffee.
Click to expand...

Anti-coffee! Blasphemy! This would be the death of workplaces across America! What has science created!?!?

😛
 
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: DrPizza
...
So, where the hell did the other 490 grams come from?? Simple: E=mc². The kinetic energy of those marbles was converted to mass during the impact.
...
Click to expand...
Awesome, now all we need to do is shrink a particle accelerator down to the size of a coffee machine, and refine the kinds of particles produced, and voila! We have a food replicator.
Want a cup of coffee? It'll only require, what, maybe the energy of a few atomic bombs to create? 😀
Better watch that it's not too hot coming out of there.

Also be careful not to reverse hot and neutral when wiring it in, or you might wind up with a steaming cup of anti-coffee.
Click to expand...

LOL!

I like this anti-coffee concept, although it would kinda suck if it just put you to sleep.

Vanishing from existence would be far cooler. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: artikk
hmm it won't come as surprise to me if eventually they find particles that comprise the quarks themselves.
Click to expand...

and then the particles that make up the particles that make up quarks... 😛
Click to expand...

See: string theory (which is really a hypothesis)
 
What's a "GeV" unit of weight? 😕

I watch (have watched) Discovery, Cosmos (I even bought the DVD series!) and all the other "where did we come from/how much does nothing weigh/is UV light really dark matter" shows for years.

Still, this boggles my mind. "Tests have shown that the particle only exists between the 4th and 7th universes...on Tuesday...at 9:21AM...when viewed thru a red lens of .323nM focus...."

I mean...WTF? 😕 How can you PROVE these little particles exist or don't? We've got electron microscopes that can view things on the atomic level. How can we prove/verify smaller than that?

Hell, I'll make up my own particles and scale of measurement.

I'm constructed of MichaelemD-bossanovumsums. They are so small that even a Higgs-Bosson scope thing can't see them.

I>better than all your sub-atomic particle thingees that may or may not exist anyway.
 
Originally posted by: MichaelD
What's a "GeV" unit of weight? 😕

I watch (have watched) Discovery, Cosmos (I even bought the DVD series!) and all the other "where did we come from/how much does nothing weigh/is UV light really dark matter" shows for years.

Still, this boggles my mind. "Tests have shown that the particle only exists between the 4th and 7th universes...on Tuesday...at 9:21AM...when viewed thru a red lens of .323nM focus...."

I mean...WTF? 😕 How can you PROVE these little particles exist or don't? We've got electron microscopes that can view things on the atomic level. How can we prove/verify smaller than that?

Hell, I'll make up my own particles and scale of measurement.

I'm constructed of MichaelemD-bossanovumsums. They are so small that even a Higgs-Bosson scope thing can't see them.

I>better than all your sub-atomic particle thingees that may or may not exist anyway.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeV#As_a_unit_of_mass
 
Thanks, Brainonska511. Or, the aliens can just come with the Raygun of Knowledge And/OR Destruction and prove that everything we know is wrong.

Really; all these odd Physics/Atomic units of measurement are just various hypothosis'/conjecture by people who really arent' sure...they are just assuming.
 
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Very interesting indeed. It will be intersting to see if this is a game-changer in the standard model. It seems odd that something like this would not have been predicted, as the standard model is pretty damn tight and doesn't allow for a lot of as-yet unpredicted interactions, assuming what we think we know about the Higgs is true.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I've got the feeling that the current standard model will see a revolution of sorts during my lifetime. It is one thing to verify something predicted by the current model, but to observe something that is not predicted is even more valuable. I look foreward to seeing how the particle physics community makes heads or tails of this...
Click to expand...

The standard model is a lot like Newtonian physics. It's a nice little package that works perfectly and has no holes, provided you don't stretch it's boundaries too much. However, we know it's not complete and so something has to be added, or a larger more all-encompassing theory must be created which reduces down to the standard model under the right conditions.
 
Originally posted by: SagaLore
might be another example of an exotic hadron containing charm quarks.
Click to expand...

Awesomeness. Eventually they're going to find the right combination of collisions to produce a completely new form of stable matter... imagine the odd uses... maybe some kind of perfect room temperature superconductor, or antigravity, something that will enable hyperspace drives, etc.
Click to expand...

Eh, that's unlikely. Superconduction is a condensed matter thing. This is all high-energy. They're worlds apart in physics terms.
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza

OP: from what little that I read of this in the past couple days, it seemed that the physicists were more interested in the fact that they had narrowed down the range of masses that the Higgs Boson can exist at. i.e. while I'm not much of a particle physicist, I got the impression that the impact of this discovery is "wow, that's kinda neat" not "whoa! time to go back to the drawing board."

The constraints on the Higgs Boson were between 114 & 185 GeV. The recent experiments ruled out 160 to 170 GeV with 95% certainty. So, about 14% of the range of possible masses was pretty much ruled out.
Click to expand...

Well that's what Fermilab is doing right now, narrowing down the Higgs hunt. LHC can go higher, and can do the intermediate searches faster when it comes online. So really, they're just happy that they can be useful in the search for the Higgs as that's the big quest in high energy right now.

These other particles are little bonus prizes, maybe some foreshadowing to some new physics to be discovered at LHC.
 
Originally posted by: MichaelD
What's a "GeV" unit of weight? 😕

I watch (have watched) Discovery, Cosmos (I even bought the DVD series!) and all the other "where did we come from/how much does nothing weigh/is UV light really dark matter" shows for years.

Still, this boggles my mind. "Tests have shown that the particle only exists between the 4th and 7th universes...on Tuesday...at 9:21AM...when viewed thru a red lens of .323nM focus...."

I mean...WTF? 😕 How can you PROVE these little particles exist or don't? We've got electron microscopes that can view things on the atomic level. How can we prove/verify smaller than that?

Hell, I'll make up my own particles and scale of measurement.

I'm constructed of MichaelemD-bossanovumsums. They are so small that even a Higgs-Bosson scope thing can't see them.

I>better than all your sub-atomic particle thingees that may or may not exist anyway.
Click to expand...

GeV is shorthand for GeV/c^2 which stands for

giga electron volt / (speed of light)^2

A GeV is a measure of energy. E = mc^2 so E/c^2 = m, so a GeV/c^2 is a measure of mass yes. Most particle physicists operate in what's known as c = h(bar) = 1 units, so energy is measured in eV. It makes the math a lot simpler, but conceptually it gets a little funny. In these units, length is measured in seconds (ie, I'm 0.001 nanoseconds tall).
 
Originally posted by: MichaelD
What's a "GeV" unit of weight? 😕

I watch (have watched) Discovery, Cosmos (I even bought the DVD series!) and all the other "where did we come from/how much does nothing weigh/is UV light really dark matter" shows for years.

Still, this boggles my mind. "Tests have shown that the particle only exists between the 4th and 7th universes...on Tuesday...at 9:21AM...when viewed thru a red lens of .323nM focus...."

I mean...WTF? 😕 How can you PROVE these little particles exist or don't? We've got electron microscopes that can view things on the atomic level. How can we prove/verify smaller than that?

Hell, I'll make up my own particles and scale of measurement.

I'm constructed of MichaelemD-bossanovumsums. They are so small that even a Higgs-Bosson scope thing can't see them.

I>better than all your sub-atomic particle thingees that may or may not exist anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure eV is a unit of energy, so a GeV must be a ginormus electron volt.
 
A bit more information on the b-meson/anti-b-meson story

It's interesting that there are apparently two distinct CP violations depending on if it's ant-matter or matter. Since one is supposed to be the mirror of the other, the mechanisms ought to be the same. Something is apparently fundamentally different between these pairs though.

Anyway Silverpig, I think it would be interesting if they can't find the Higgs as Hawking has wagered. That would embarrass more than a few, but it would serve Higgs right. Higgs was a complete ass to Tom Kibble and pretty much would like to claim all the theory to himself.

We'll see.
 
Originally posted by: Modular
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: Greenman
Wow, the harder you hit something, the more pieces it breaks into, whoda thunk?
Click to expand...

It's a little different than that. It's the pieces joining together to become something that shouldn't exist with the physics we know now.
Click to expand...

So basically all that we know concerning this area, or physics in general can be called into question (on a theoretical level at least).


Just another example of how ignorant we as a species can be. Maybe this example demonstrates it on a micro level, but this is exactly why I think most of our "science" now is going to be dispelled and laughed at 100 years from now, and all the people who tout science as truth should really take the stick outta their rears. It makes them walk funny.
Click to expand...

Do we laugh at Newtonian physics because they have been supplanted by general relativity? Did we abandon all of our knowledge from Galileo, Newton et al after Einsteins discovery? Your post demonstrates a shocking level of ignorance with regards to science and the scientific process.
 
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Thanks, Brainonska511. Or, the aliens can just come with the Raygun of Knowledge And/OR Destruction and prove that everything we know is wrong.

Really; all these odd Physics/Atomic units of measurement are just various hypothosis'/conjecture by people who really arent' sure...they are just assuming.
Click to expand...

No, not "really" - this stuff is understood to a far greater level of precision and accuracy than any other theory.

The understanding isn't 100% thorough, but that criticism can be made of any field.
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Thanks, Brainonska511. Or, the aliens can just come with the Raygun of Knowledge And/OR Destruction and prove that everything we know is wrong.

Really; all these odd Physics/Atomic units of measurement are just various hypothosis'/conjecture by people who really arent' sure...they are just assuming.
Click to expand...

No, not "really" - this stuff is understood to a far greater level of precision and accuracy than any other theory.

The understanding isn't 100% thorough, but that criticism can be made of any field.
Click to expand...

There is a really great book called The Theory of Almost Everything by Robert Oerter that makes the case for the standard model. It's an amazing book, totally accessible to the layman, and shows just how amazingly robust the standard model is. The standard model is the single most tested scientific theory ever and makes predictions to insane degrees of accuracy. Despite being the most tested theory ever, the standard model has never been proven wrong. Ever.
 
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: Modular
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: Greenman
Wow, the harder you hit something, the more pieces it breaks into, whoda thunk?
Click to expand...

It's a little different than that. It's the pieces joining together to become something that shouldn't exist with the physics we know now.
Click to expand...

So basically all that we know concerning this area, or physics in general can be called into question (on a theoretical level at least).


Just another example of how ignorant we as a species can be. Maybe this example demonstrates it on a micro level, but this is exactly why I think most of our "science" now is going to be dispelled and laughed at 100 years from now, and all the people who tout science as truth should really take the stick outta their rears. It makes them walk funny.
Click to expand...

Do we laugh at Newtonian physics because they have been supplanted by general relativity? Did we abandon all of our knowledge from Galileo, Newton et al after Einsteins discovery? Your post demonstrates a shocking level of ignorance with regards to science and the scientific process.
Click to expand...

Newtonian physics was NOT supplanted by General relativity. Newtownian physics is every bit as accurate now as it was then. General relativity merely expands on it and gives some background on why Newtonian physics works the way it does.

Unfortunately the post you're referring to does have some merit. 100 years ago we believed the universe was static. We believed human behavior was controlled by how much bile a person had and the "4 humours". We believed Dinosaur skeletons were recently deceased big versions of modern animals because God would never allow one of His species to go extinct.

In 100 years people ARE probably going to be laughing at us for thinking black holes emit Hawking radiation and that universal expansion greatly exceeded the speed of light immediately after the Big Bang.

It's still important to keep coming up with theories though. Even if they disprove stuff we thought was correct 40 years ago, it's still forward progress. And every once in awhile you get a Newton or an Einstein who comes up with something so brilliant that 400 years later it's still an integral part of the field of study.
 
Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Newtonian physics was NOT supplanted by General relativity. Newtownian physics is every bit as accurate now as it was then. General relativity merely expands on it and gives some background on why Newtonian physics works the way it does.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that what Godless was referring to is the fact that Newtonian physics only works on small scale stuff, like what we do every day on Earth. But it doesn't work on large-scale things, like galactic formations. That's why there's all this fuss over dark matter, or the MOdified Newtonian Dynamics idea, to explain why these large scale structures behave the way they do. Newtonian physics work because what we deal with day-to-day is very small, and moves very slowly compared to the speed of light.

Unfortunately the post you're referring to does have some merit. 100 years ago we believed the universe was static. We believed human behavior was controlled by how much bile a person had and the "4 humours". We believed Dinosaur skeletons were recently deceased big versions of modern animals because God would never allow one of His species to go extinct.

In 100 years people ARE probably going to be laughing at us for thinking black holes emit Hawking radiation and that universal expansion greatly exceeded the speed of light immediately after the Big Bang.

It's still important to keep coming up with theories though. Even if they disprove stuff we thought was correct 40 years ago, it's still forward progress. And every once in awhile you get a Newton or an Einstein who comes up with something so brilliant that 400 years later it's still an integral part of the field of study.
Click to expand...
Yes, perhaps in the future they will laugh at some of our physics. Maybe the Standard Model will be funny once some grand unified theory is figured out. But yes, as you say, it's still progress, a building block for future discoveries. Still, some of the theories and models we have available now do seem to do a good job of making valid predictions, at least within the confines of our abilities to measure and quantify said predictions.


 
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: MichaelD
Thanks, Brainonska511. Or, the aliens can just come with the Raygun of Knowledge And/OR Destruction and prove that everything we know is wrong.

Really; all these odd Physics/Atomic units of measurement are just various hypothosis'/conjecture by people who really arent' sure...they are just assuming.
Click to expand...

No, not "really" - this stuff is understood to a far greater level of precision and accuracy than any other theory.

The understanding isn't 100% thorough, but that criticism can be made of any field.
Click to expand...

There is a really great book called The Theory of Almost Everything by Robert Oerter that makes the case for the standard model. It's an amazing book, totally accessible to the layman, and shows just how amazingly robust the standard model is. The standard model is the single most tested scientific theory ever and makes predictions to insane degrees of accuracy. Despite being the most tested theory ever, the standard model has never been proven wrong. Ever.
Click to expand...

So how does the standard model account for the antimatter article I linked to?
 
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