Feminism is broken

[Blue_Max]

"In 1993, all 50 states had finally eliminated the 'marital rape exception.'"

Feminism IS needed.

But when we teach people to see the world as victims, we're harming them.

Which is why we need Christina Hoff Summers' version of fact-based feminism, not seemingly-everyone-else's version based on hysteria and pure bullshit.

If you believe in a wage gap and affirmative action, etc, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Blue_Max]

Exactly. In a perfect world, women would be carrying guns and be highly trained in jiu jitsu. A city with a million people contains thousands of absolute creeps.

But this is where the whiners inevitably call 'victim blaming' and shame anyone who dare suggest someone try to do anything in their own power to protect themselves or even avoid putting themselves in harm's way.

The 'sanctioned' method is for the female to do anything she damn well wants, no matter how risky, and for everyone else to drop everything and 'take on the mantle' of her safety (as Emma Watson put it.)

All men everywhere have to never make her feel even a little nervous.
All men everywhere have to rush to her defense should she feel a shudder.
The government should pay for her STD testing and cures.
The government should pay for her birth control and abortions.
She should be given the best places of employment for... reasons.
...and so forth.

Zero personal accountability across the board. To suggest she should be accountable for anything is to 'victim blame' - if not her, than for other women who were not able to [insert any action here].

I wish they could see how demeaning THAT is. That they're reducing all women to the level of children by taking all responsibility and accountability away from them. Now THAT's de-humanizing... and they're doing it to themselves.

 

[Ackmed]

I've never been one to "cat call", but why do women find this so offensive? Is it such a bad thing to be found attractive? I'm just not the type to hoot and holler.. That doesn't mean I'm not going to look, possibly even stare. Is that offensive? Seems silly. Of course, there is no need to be vulgar or obscene - that would certainly be offensive, but I mean something innocent like a whistle I guess.

I think my wife is extremely attractive, just beautiful. She also doesn't adhere to the silliness that some overly sensitive women do. She gets hit on often, and just laughs it off or whatever. She'll tell me about it, and I don't get upset because it is a confidence booster for her. She takes it as a compliment, even when someone steps across the line. She'll often times laugh later to me about how silly someone acts or what they say. It is pretty hilarious when someone uses the line "hay shawty", like that would ever work?

Case in point, last Saturday we went out. She was dressed up in a very nice dress and heels, because we celebrated the Marine Corps 240th Birthday Ball. While at a bar a server kept going by her rubbing up against her ass as he passed. I told her I would take care of it, and she said she would handle it if he did it one more time. I like that about her. Well he did, and she confronted him about it, he apologized and said it was just out there and he was sorry. The bar tender saw it happen and she also apologized and said the guy said it just looked so juicy he had to touch it. Was it wrong? Hell yeah, but she handled it. And to be honest it did look amazing, so whatever. He was a man bun wearing goof too haha. Obviously guys can cross the line, and when it is consistent and makes a women feel uncomfortable it is wrong. Often times its just flirtatious and women are too sensitive. At least from what I have seen, but I don't live in a city with a huge downtown area like NYC.

 

[zephyrprime]

http://driftingthrough.com/2015/11/20/the-thing-all-women-do-that-you-dont-know-about


"We are acutely aware of our vulnerability. Aware that if he wanted to? That guy in the Home Depot parking lot could overpower us and do whatever he wants."

I think all of these at human problems: though degree may be greater for many women.

The broken part is that we're teaching young women to play the victim: or worse experience their lives as victims.

When feminism is about making women feel disempowered, it's broken.

Although I think feminism is bs, I don't think any of the things that this woman author complains about are bs. I've seen first hand a lot of the stuff this woman is talking about happen in real life right in front of my eyes. All those complaints from her are valid.

Feminism only makes the problems she is talking about worse in my opinion. The sexual liberty and equality that feminism promotes contradicts chivalry and special treatment for women. Men are aggressive with each other and if equality and libertine social mores are promoted, women will be treated aggressively by men. There is a reason why the sorts of problems this woman was talking about more common now than in the past and that's because society has discarded the ideas of restraint, decorum, and chivalry.

 

[Moonbeam]

If I take you correctly:

You agree that she does live in a terrorized world.

I too believe that she lives in a terrorized world.


Lets move on to the next question: How did she end up there:

Is it an unescapable physical fact of her reality that she lives in a terrorizing society?

Or is the terror she faces a function of being told to see the world as such?



If someone is afraid of muslim extremist terrorists, how did he end up there:

Is it an unescapable physical fact of reality that he lives in a terrorizing society?

Or is the terror he faces a function of being told to see the world as such?



If someone is afraid of blacks, so he stands his ground, how did he end up there:

Is it an unescapable physical fact of reality that he lives in a society terrorized by blacks?

Or is the terror he faces a function of being told to see the world as such?



To me, the question of "where does our reality come from" doesn't change because of the political situation of the question. And if that's the case, teaching people to be terrorized is wrong be it from the pulpit, faux news, or the women's-studies classroom.


ps

I agree with your car analogy. Defensive driving is an important skill, as is defensive dating/clubbing/etc. However knowing of the problems that exist is something quit different from living daily in fear of them.

I guess my questions come down to the problem of knowing problems exist, what I would refer to as women's studies, as opposed to the inevitable reaction that occurs, the fanaticism and hostile return of abuse, when constantly exposed to such by men.

As far as I am concerned, I see the three cases you posed as all having a single root, racism, religious prejudice, sexism and the whole sweep of human dilemmas that separate us from them, all have a single root, being trained to see you are worthless as a child by being verbally put down violently.

In essence, you are dealing with symptoms too far up the food chain. The problem is not that women hate themselves and blame men, or that black people are this or that, or Muslims are all violent, but the you and I and everybody else on the planet, with rare exceptions. are all convinced they are the worst in the world.

The problem is that the real disease is never addressed, the imbedded self hate in which we all life and the reason is because the problem is profoundly difficult to face. We do not know we hate ourselves, we do not want to know it, and we do not want to know we do not want to know. We died psychically as children, had to die to survive, had to surrender to whatever group think we were born into, because we were dependent, in need of love and care, and our needs were used to control us. We have all been through worse than a concentration camp and do not remember, can't remember without tremendous effort, because the pain we felt killed our true selves. The death and resurrection of Christ are all symbols of what is required to awaken from this death, to suffer by remembering, by telling ourselves our own story, by collapsing the ego that is the armor that keeps our self hate at bay. We all believe and live a lie, that there is something deeply flawed in us, a feeling that we powerfully repress and wind up therefore, projecting on others.

Every time somebody makes some progress in one of our areas of sickness. say a women who becomes aware of the prejudice against women and seeks to do something about it. she raises an army against her. We must allow nobody to be free of their self hate, we must pull all back into our mud, We slime everything because it is what happened to us.

There are many many people who know that something is wrong, we retain a echo of our former selves, that was not totally snuffed. This is described the Sufis as the song of the reed of a flute lamenting the loss of its osier bead.

I hear song in you and love you for it.

 

[glenn1]

Although I think feminism is bs, I don't think any of the things that this woman author complains about are bs. I've seen first hand a lot of the stuff this woman is talking about happen in real life right in front of my eyes. All those complaints from her are valid.

Feminism only makes the problems she is talking about worse in my opinion. The sexual liberty and equality that feminism promotes contradicts chivalry and special treatment for women. Men are aggressive with each other and if equality and libertine social mores are promoted, women will be treated aggressively by men. There is a reason why the sorts of problems this woman was talking about more common now than in the past and that's because society has discarded the ideas of restraint, decorum, and chivalry.

That strange dude in the parking lot she's worried about raping her is absolutely no threat to a male from being mugged or whatnot. I need "masculinism" to protect me from ordinary life risks like scary people; without such a movement I would be helpless.

 

[momeNt]

All of these apply to manlets.

Not only that, but manlets also deal with not conforming to gender norms.

What are we going to do about the manlet problem?

 

[CitizenKain]

Although I think feminism is bs, I don't think any of the things that this woman author complains about are bs. I've seen first hand a lot of the stuff this woman is talking about happen in real life right in front of my eyes. All those complaints from her are valid.

Feminism only makes the problems she is talking about worse in my opinion. The sexual liberty and equality that feminism promotes contradicts chivalry and special treatment for women. Men are aggressive with each other and if equality and libertine social mores are promoted, women will be treated aggressively by men. There is a reason why the sorts of problems this woman was talking about more common now than in the past and that's because society has discarded the ideas of restraint, decorum, and chivalry.

If you somehow think women being treated as objects is some new thing, then you are going to be surprised if you look in a history book.
As someone posted, marital rape used to be essentially ignored. There are rightwingers who are still upset about that.

 

[bshole]

If you somehow think women being treated as objects is some new thing, then you are going to be surprised if you look in a history book.
As someone posted, marital rape used to be essentially ignored. There are rightwingers who are still upset about that.

....And even more surprised when you look at nature, males in animal kingdom are just.... well.... animals.

Seriously, a lust for women is an evolved trait. It is part of being male. We are just a bunch of sicko horndogs.

 

[bshole]

and more.... My son is a freshman in high school. He inherited my good looks and athleticism.... but not my intelligence or drive.

So I have overheard conversations between him and various girls where he has the speaker phone on. I have heard the girls talking about masturbating and all manner of sex to him. I have looked at his cell phone chat logs and have seen messages where girls offer to have sex with him. I am pretty sure he has bedded at least two girls and possibly more since school started. Weirdly the shittier he treats them, the more desperately they chase him. The point is that there are plenty of horny girls out there.... plenty. Girls willing to have sex with boys if the boys will accept them as friends.

I think most woman want CERTAIN men to chase them. What they consider ok from a guy they are attracted to is offensive from a guy they are not.

 

[Zorba]

I feel like most people don't understand what catcalling is, and the larger thing it's a part of. It's not just being constantly honked and whistled at all the time, it's that a lot of women I know have had men come up to them and say things like 'show me a smile!'. When they are ignored, they actually become angry and start following women around calling them names, saying they are rude, etc. It's super threatening.

So at least from the experiences of my female friends in NYC the issue is basically that it is constant, unrelenting, and occasionally scary.

I think that is more of a NYC thing, than a normal everyday type of thing. In a city of millions crammed into a tiny area, with a normal rate of mental illness, I am not surprised things like this happen. Crazies do other crazy things to men too.

My wife has literally never had someone come up to her and ask her to show them a smile.

Not saying that it doesn't happen, or isn't a big deal, but it probably happens a lot more in major urban areas, because there is a much higher concentration of creeps and I am not sure how fundraisers are going to change this.

I have meet girls that also think any interaction with a male is horrible, if he holds the door open he either a) thinks she is weak b) wants to screw her. If a guy talks to her at all, he is hitting on her, etc. If they go out on a date and the guy tries to pay he is a chauvinist pig. If they go out on a date and the guy doesn't try to pay, he is a cheap bastard.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I'll just leave this here....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM

 

[Spungo]

That strange dude in the parking lot she's worried about raping her is absolutely no threat to a male from being mugged or whatnot. I need "masculinism" to protect me from ordinary life risks like scary people; without such a movement I would be helpless.

Carrying a gun and learning grappling would be victim blaming

While it sounds stupid to teach men not to rape, it actually does work to some degree. The stuff humans are capable of believing is just.... unbelievable. There was a time when we had to remind people that slavery was wrong, and they would argue about it. We even had a war over this stupid issue! We've reached the point of diminishing returns with the "rape is wrong" and "slavery is wrong" approach. 99% of people are aware of this and they agree. The other 1% simply don't care, and we're not going to change their minds. This is where guns and jiu jitsu come in. If we can get 99% of men to voluntarily not rape, and the other 1% are choked to death in self defense, we'll reach that 100% goal :thumbsup:

The same numbers apply to everything else. Property crime? 99% will voluntarily not break into your house. The other 1% need to be executed.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Every time somebody makes some progress in one of our areas of sickness. say a women who becomes aware of the prejudice against women and seeks to do something about it. she raises an army against her. We must allow nobody to be free of their self hate, we must pull all back into our mud, We slime everything because it is what happened to us.

Ideologies control us and reward us with completed narratives (smile).

Speaking against the real GODs is worse than being a simple criminal (vomit).

It makes you a monster that must be destroyed (RAAHH!!!).



This is called "Heidegger the Fox" by my hero Hanna Arendt.


****

Heidegger says, with great pride: "People say that Heidegger is a fox." This is the true story of Heidegger the fox: Once upon a time there was a fox who was so lacking in slyness that he not only kept getting caught in traps but couldn't even tell the difference between a trap and a non-trap. This fox suffered from another failing as well. There was something wrong with his fur, so that he was completely without natural protection against the hardships of a fox's life. After he had spent his entire youth prowling around the traps of people, and now that not one intact piece of fur, so to speak, was left on him, this fox decided to withdraw from the fox world altogether and to set about making himself a burrow. In his shocking ignorance of the difference between traps, he hit on an idea completely new and unheard of among foxes: He built a trap as his burrow. He set himself inside it, passed it off as a normal burrow—not out of cunning, but because he had always thought others' traps were their burrows—and then decided to become sly in his own way and outfit for others the trap he had built himself and that suited only him. This again demonstrated great ignorance about traps: No one would go into his trap, because he was sitting inside it himself. This annoyed him. After all, everyone knows that, despite their slyness, all foxes occasionally get caught in traps. Why should a fox trap—especially one built by a fox with more experience of traps than any other—not be a match for the traps of human beings and hunters? Obviously because this trap did not reveal itself clearly enough as the trap it was! And so it occurred to our fox to decorate his trap beautifully and to hang up equivocal signs everywhere on it that quite clearly said: "Come here, everyone; this is a trap, the most beautiful trap in the world." From this point on it was clear that no fox could stray into this trap by mistake. Nevertheless, many came. For this trap was our fox's burrow, and if you wanted to visit him where he was at home, you had to step into his trap. Everyone except our fox could, of course, step out of it again. It was cut, literally, to his own measurement. But the fox who lived in the trap said proudly: "So many are visiting me in my trap that I have become the best of all foxes." And there is some truth in that, too: Nobody knows the nature of traps better than one who sits in a trap his whole life long.

****

 

[Exophase]

My wife has literally never had someone come up to her and ask her to show them a smile.

Just asked my girlfriend and she said the same thing. And it's not like she always looks happy either.

My friend on the other hand.. is trans but looks male, and I've seen women tell her to smile on multiple occasions.

 

[Ancalagon44]

You want broken?

After gathering sexual assault stats for years, it turns out that 1 in 5 is completely wrong and the actual stats are nowhere near that.

What do the feminists do? Insist that the stats are wrong of course.

You see, it doesn't fit in with their narrative that all men are evil rapists. So obviously they need to discredit the numbers.

 

[HologramSkin]

Everyone has inequalities and playing oppression olypmics with who was it worse isn't going to fix anything.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

and more.... My son is a freshman in high school. He inherited my good looks and athleticism.... but not my intelligence or drive.

So I have overheard conversations between him and various girls where he has the speaker phone on. I have heard the girls talking about masturbating and all manner of sex to him. I have looked at his cell phone chat logs and have seen messages where girls offer to have sex with him. I am pretty sure he has bedded at least two girls and possibly more since school started. Weirdly the shittier he treats them, the more desperately they chase him. The point is that there are plenty of horny girls out there.... plenty. Girls willing to have sex with boys if the boys will accept them as friends.

I think most woman want CERTAIN men to chase them. What they consider ok from a guy they are attracted to is offensive from a guy they are not.

Yeah, you just went up another notch on the creeper dad totem.

 

[Blue_Max]

I think everyone needs to re-read the short story of Harrison Bergeron: https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron_djvu.txt

This is very much the direction the liberal/sjw/feminist machine is trying to take society. It's what "equality of outcome" is all about. Hamper those who CAN do more to either benefit or at least not offend those who can't.

Create a society of the lowest common denominator to protect the weak ones' feelings.

 

[Moonbeam]

DixyCrat: Ideologies control us and reward us with completed narratives (smile).:

M: I am not very smart and I am not very educated so even in your first sentence you have said way way more than I can handle. I do not know what you intend to say here, or your purpose for saying it, but what I hear in those words could fill volumes, a grain of sand that contains the universe, a key understanding that if assimilated can unlock every trap.

To me this is just a short way to say this:

To me an ideology is a received belief, a way of thinking that is inculcated, a conditioning, an enculturation designed to fit on for ones surroundings, a way to behave and to act and to respond, to interact with ones society that will insure your acceptance and safety. It is an attachment of the ego made in order to fit in. This is what makes it a narrative that completes.

It is ones own story, how one came to be who one is, a story that almost none remember. We are born totally vulnerable, with an enormous human potential, that in order to live by the vicious rules we impose on those we worship, the use of violence is the shortcut we take as parents to insure our children are securely shoehorned into. Infinite potential put in a tiny box with bright shiny ego polishings that insure we will stay trapped, while deep within our interior we simmer with hatred at the loss of our true selves.

All those ego needs, all that need for pretense, that deep fear we will not be accepted and respected if we stray from the meme.

We live in a world full of vacuums that are hungry hungry hungry and of course dying for sex. This thread is so full of those sucking sounds. The lover is he or she who turns the vacuum cleaner inside out. One can never have anything except what you give.

 

[bshole]

Yeah, you just went up another notch on the creeper dad totem.

What would you suggest? I have tried everything with him with both carrots and sticks. He is a user of people, lazy and unmotivated. I have a secret hope that some girl will straighten him out but it appears to go the other way. He screws them up. He is 15 years old, I am trying my best to keep him out of trouble but to no avail. He wants trouble. He actively seeks it. If he survives his teen years, it will be with no absolutely no skills and no motivation. It depresses and scares me to see a person I care about so much flush it all down the toilet in a mindless quest for hedonism.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

DixyCrat: Ideologies control us and reward us with completed narratives (smile).:

M:
All those ego needs, all that need for pretense, that deep fear we will not be accepted and respected if we stray from the meme.

One can never have anything except what you give.

I read you as suggesting cultivation of a tendency to drop from that pretense/meme/ideology.

Fear comes from looking around and saying:

"If I disengage then I might end up where I am; and this his horrendous"


Ecclesiastes 4:

I looked and saw how much people were suffering on this earth

I saw the tears of those who are suffering.
They don’t have anyone to comfort them.
Power is on the side of those who treat them badly.
Those who are suffering don’t have anyone to comfort them.
Then I announced that those
who have already died
are happier than those
who are still alive.
But someone who hasn’t been born yet
is better off than the dead or the living.
That’s because that person hasn’t seen the evil things
that are done on earth.

 

[bradly1101]

http://driftingthrough.com/2015/11/20/the-thing-all-women-do-that-you-dont-know-about


"We are acutely aware of our vulnerability. Aware that if he wanted to? That guy in the Home Depot parking lot could overpower us and do whatever he wants."

I think all of these at human problems: though degree may be greater for many women.

The broken part is that we're teaching young women to play the victim: or worse experience their lives as victims.

When feminism is about making women feel disempowered, it's broken.

I thought it was interesting that some of the biggest applause lines during the current presidential campaign were when a female was attacked for whatever, and the female candidate made it about all women. In other words, "If you call me stupid, you're calling all women stupid." Talk about playing the victim and dragging an entire gender down with you.

 

[bradly1101]

I think most woman want CERTAIN men to chase them. What they consider ok from a guy they are attracted to is offensive from a guy they are not.

They think they want that. At a certain point they will get hurt badly enough to realize that what they really want are good boys (they'll be men by then).

At about the same time bad boys will start turning into men when they hurt a girl badly enough to feel guilty about it (snips and snails, and puppy dogs tails, that's what little boys are made of).

Many immature boys externalize their bad feelings and try to put them on others, while many immature girls wisely internalize 'the bad side', but then take it on from others until they hit rock bottom.

Unfortunately it takes time until kids realize that personal responsibility and self respect come from dropping these seemingly instinctual desires rooted in poor self esteem (I feel better if I can make another feel worse :twisted. Remember in teenagers poor self esteem can be the result of a friend getting better sneakers than they have. I can understand why some believe that desire is the source of all evil.

I have heard of great results from getting kids to meditate, because when you have quiet time with your own mind you start figuring some things out as you watch your thoughts, fears, and desires try to take over, and what triggers them. The opposite of exercising that muscle of self awareness is the distractions like phones and tablets that consume every ounce of their attention.

 

[Moonbeam]

What would you suggest? I have tried everything with him with both carrots and sticks. He is a user of people, lazy and unmotivated. I have a secret hope that some girl will straighten him out but it appears to go the other way. He screws them up. He is 15 years old, I am trying my best to keep him out of trouble but to no avail. He wants trouble. He actively seeks it. If he survives his teen years, it will be with no absolutely no skills and no motivation. It depresses and scares me to see a person I care about so much flush it all down the toilet in a mindless quest for hedonism.

You tried everything? But every time I suggest to you that you do not practice what you believe, you avoid that confrontation with your own reality. You say that you lost all hope and all joy when you lost your faith in God, that you see only endless the endless and inescapable emptiness of despair and meaninglessness. What then is this depression and fear that your son's life is going down the toilet? What is this toilet that exists in a meaningless world. You are holding on to something, no? What is it?