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FEMA, Slow to the Rescue, Now Stumbles in Aid Effort

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Originally posted by: BBond
PS Universal healthcare would be a much better way to spend a few hundred billion dollars than unprovoked invasions. Preventive health care is far more cost effective in the long run than keeping forty percent of the population in emergency rooms for treatment of health issues that could be easily controlled before they become critical.

It shouldn't be the government's responsibility to keep people out of emergency rooms.

The issue is not size, but scope of government and all of these socialist entitlement schemes. Some of Bush's decisions are disheartening in this regard, and the good ones like social security reform were shut down. As I said in another post, its the socialists and the socialistmores.

Perhaps if we canned social security and medicare FEMA would have enough money to ensure the defense of our nation.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: BBond
PS Universal healthcare would be a much better way to spend a few hundred billion dollars than unprovoked invasions. Preventive health care is far more cost effective in the long run than keeping forty percent of the population in emergency rooms for treatment of health issues that could be easily controlled before they become critical.

It shouldn't be the government's responsibility to keep people out of emergency rooms.

The issue is not size, but scope of government and all of these socialist entitlement schemes. Some of Bush's decisions are disheartening in this regard, and the good ones like social security reform were shut down. As I said in another post, its the socialists and the socialistmores.

Perhaps if we canned social security and medicare FEMA would have enough money to ensure the defense of our nation.

As opposed to your idea: Corporate Entitlement Programs and corporate welfare.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
FEMA inept update 9-18-2005:


It is 18 days after the storm and FEMA only has 8 Centers set up when they promised 20.

We have a Government that the only thing they are good at is collecting our money and spending on themselves.

That just can't be! Slyedog told me things are moving at a very fast pace!

I don't know who or where this slyedog guy is but he sure isn't down here in New Orleans.

Bush lovers will say anything to protect their God.
 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

As opposed to your idea: Corporate Entitlement Programs and corporate welfare.

No, all entitlement programs are bad. The government should stop bailing out failing airlines.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: BBond
PS Universal healthcare would be a much better way to spend a few hundred billion dollars than unprovoked invasions. Preventive health care is far more cost effective in the long run than keeping forty percent of the population in emergency rooms for treatment of health issues that could be easily controlled before they become critical.

It shouldn't be the government's responsibility to keep people out of emergency rooms.

The issue is not size, but scope of government and all of these socialist entitlement schemes. Some of Bush's decisions are disheartening in this regard, and the good ones like social security reform were shut down. As I said in another post, its the socialists and the socialistmores.

Perhaps if we canned social security and medicare FEMA would have enough money to ensure the defense of our nation.

Don't fret, you will get your wish of an anti-Socialist, Anti-human Country except for the rich yet.

China will pick up the scraps left of the destroyed U.S. Hope you enjoy it.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: BBond
PS Universal healthcare would be a much better way to spend a few hundred billion dollars than unprovoked invasions. Preventive health care is far more cost effective in the long run than keeping forty percent of the population in emergency rooms for treatment of health issues that could be easily controlled before they become critical.

It shouldn't be the government's responsibility to keep people out of emergency rooms.

The issue is not size, but scope of government and all of these socialist entitlement schemes. Some of Bush's decisions are disheartening in this regard, and the good ones like social security reform were shut down. As I said in another post, its the socialists and the socialistmores.
It shouldn't be government's responsibility to take PAC money from Big Pharma in return for legislation that allows them to run what amounts to a predatory "your drugs or your life" blackmail scam either. But that's just what Bush did with his ridiculous prescription drug plan. Along with using taxpayer dollars to run ads for it that were called propaganda by the GAO. And promising favors to get votes. And threatening accountants with termination if they told anyone that the real cost was hundreds of billions more than what Bush was telling everyone.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
It shouldn't be government's responsibility to take PAC money from Big Pharma in return for legislation that allows them to run what amounts to a predatory "your drugs or your life" blackmail scam either. But that's just what Bush did with his ridiculous prescription drug plan. Along with using taxpayer dollars to run ads for it that were called propaganda by the GAO. And promising favors to get votes. And threatening accountants with termination if they told anyone that the real cost was hundreds of billions more than what Bush was telling everyone.

I fully agree. The government shouldn't be handing out prescription drugs at all. When it starts doing so you have problems.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

As opposed to your idea: Corporate Entitlement Programs and corporate welfare.

No, all entitlement programs are bad. The government should stop bailing out failing airlines.

Failing airlines are only the tip of the corporate welfare iceberg... and it's the Republicans who support that iceberg.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

As opposed to your idea: Corporate Entitlement Programs and corporate welfare.

No, all entitlement programs are bad. The government should stop bailing out failing airlines.

If you are going to College/University hopefully you are doing it in a private institution and doing it 100% without any aid!
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: BBond
It shouldn't be government's responsibility to take PAC money from Big Pharma in return for legislation that allows them to run what amounts to a predatory "your drugs or your life" blackmail scam either. But that's just what Bush did with his ridiculous prescription drug plan. Along with using taxpayer dollars to run ads for it that were called propaganda by the GAO. And promising favors to get votes. And threatening accountants with termination if they told anyone that the real cost was hundreds of billions more than what Bush was telling everyone.

I fully agree. The government shouldn't be handing out prescription drugs at all. When it starts doing so you have problems.

The government isn't handing out prescription drugs. The Republicans took PAC money from pharmaceutical companies then returned the investment by creating a "prescription drug plan" that saves seniors zilch and costs the U.S taxpayers $724 billion over ten years.

Talk about entitlements. Big Pharma got their payoff for those big Republican donations and you complain about supplying people with preventive care that could save the nation far more than Bush's plan is costing us. Typically, you've got all the facts bass ackwards, Zendari.

 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: BBond
PS Universal healthcare would be a much better way to spend a few hundred billion dollars than unprovoked invasions. Preventive health care is far more cost effective in the long run than keeping forty percent of the population in emergency rooms for treatment of health issues that could be easily controlled before they become critical.

It shouldn't be the government's responsibility to keep people out of emergency rooms.

The issue is not size, but scope of government and all of these socialist entitlement schemes. Some of Bush's decisions are disheartening in this regard, and the good ones like social security reform were shut down. As I said in another post, its the socialists and the socialistmores.

Perhaps if we canned social security and medicare FEMA would have enough money to ensure the defense of our nation.


:roll: Zendari, You missed the boat by a mile on that one. It's called preventive health care for a reason. Americans who an not afford health insurance coverage resort to using the emergency room as a primary care provider. These folks can't afford to go to a doctor's office when ill so they wait uintil they are very ill and then go to the emergency room. In most cases the major illness and need for hospitalization COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.
You should try hanging out in an ER one day to see what it's like.

And yes, FEMA has been very slow to set up, so has the Red Cross. Anyone who evacuated to other areas in Louisiana, returned home and is now seeking assistance is hard-pressed to find it.

Seems like it's easy for you to sit back and judge from afar. You have no idea about what's really happening. Maybe you should run for president - looks like you'd make a great candidate.
 
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

As opposed to your idea: Corporate Entitlement Programs and corporate welfare.

No, all entitlement programs are bad. The government should stop bailing out failing airlines.

If you are going to College/University hopefully you are doing it in a private institution and doing it 100% without any aid!

Oops. I think maybe Zendari didn't recognize that entitlement.
 
Originally posted by: bayou

:roll: Zendari, You missed the boat by a mile on that one. It's called preventive health care for a reason. Americans who an not afford health insurance coverage resort to using the emergency room as a primary care provider. These folks can't afford to go to a doctor's office when ill so they wait uintil they are very ill and then go to the emergency room. In most cases the major illness and need for hospitalization COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.
You should try hanging out in an ER one day to see what it's like.

Insurance or method of payment should be a prerequisite to the Emergency Room.


Talk about entitlements. Big Pharma got their payoff for those big Republican donations and you complain about supplying people with preventive care that could save the nation far more than Bush's plan is costing us. Typically, you've got all the facts bass ackwards, Zendari.
Thank the people who came up with medicare.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: bayou

:roll: Zendari, You missed the boat by a mile on that one. It's called preventive health care for a reason. Americans who an not afford health insurance coverage resort to using the emergency room as a primary care provider. These folks can't afford to go to a doctor's office when ill so they wait uintil they are very ill and then go to the emergency room. In most cases the major illness and need for hospitalization COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.
You should try hanging out in an ER one day to see what it's like.

Insurance or method of payment should be a prerequisite to the Emergency Room.

Yeah that would help! DUH!!!! I know, how about setting up euthanasia atations for the uninsured. Or maybe the US could build a plant like in Soylent Green. We could ship all the uninsured there and turn them into food for the hurricane refugees.
Talk about entitlements. Big Pharma got their payoff for those big Republican donations and you complain about supplying people with preventive care that could save the nation far more than Bush's plan is costing us. Typically, you've got all the facts bass ackwards, Zendari.
Thank the people who came up with medicare.

 
Yeah that would help! DUH!!!! I know, how about setting up euthanasia atations for the uninsured. Or maybe the US could build a plant like in Soylent Green. We could ship all the uninsured there and turn them into food for the hurricane refugees.
Euthanasia stations cost money.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: bayou

:roll: Zendari, You missed the boat by a mile on that one. It's called preventive health care for a reason. Americans who an not afford health insurance coverage resort to using the emergency room as a primary care provider. These folks can't afford to go to a doctor's office when ill so they wait uintil they are very ill and then go to the emergency room. In most cases the major illness and need for hospitalization COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.
You should try hanging out in an ER one day to see what it's like.

Insurance or method of payment should be a prerequisite to the Emergency Room.


Talk about entitlements. Big Pharma got their payoff for those big Republican donations and you complain about supplying people with preventive care that could save the nation far more than Bush's plan is costing us. Typically, you've got all the facts bass ackwards, Zendari.
Thank the people who came up with medicare.

You of course mean Medicaid. Medicare is a goverment supported insurance pool, the participants pay a monthly premium whether or not they use a benefit.
 
Originally posted by: zendari
Yeah that would help! DUH!!!! I know, how about setting up euthanasia atations for the uninsured. Or maybe the US could build a plant like in Soylent Green. We could ship all the uninsured there and turn them into food for the hurricane refugees.
Euthanasia stations cost money.

In your case they'd be worth every penny.

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: zendari
Yeah that would help! DUH!!!! I know, how about setting up euthanasia atations for the uninsured. Or maybe the US could build a plant like in Soylent Green. We could ship all the uninsured there and turn them into food for the hurricane refugees.
Euthanasia stations cost money.

In your case they'd be worth every penny.

 
That's just an outright misrepresentation. How many NG troops were in the city and why couldn't any of the news crews find them?
I can't seem to find it now, but there was a thread posted not too long ago that documented the photo journal of a South American immigrant stranded in New Orleans, and his ordeal in escaping the city.

His pictures of the morning after showed quite a few National Guard troops patrolling Canal Street, and going through the clean-up efforts required to make way for the flow of relief supplies into the city...the city of New Orleans actually weathered Katrina fairly well.

It wasn't until the levees broke that things got out of control...how does any level of government prepare for the catastrophic loss of infrastructure resulting from nearly 80% of a major urban area flooding...this isn't like a RTS game, where the government can simply drop in base camps, relief supplies and the logistics required to support such an operation.

 
there cannot be a lot done in new orleans until it is drained and sanitized. the fema work is taking place in baton rouge, lafayette and towns around the hurricane area. that is where the refugees are now, not in new orleans.and they come first.also in mississippi and alabama. but dont beleive me, just come down here and see for yourself. i am 90 miles away and i see progress every day. but whackos like bbond and dccowen have their heads stuck in the sand and they still think the refugees are waiting for water in new orleans.
 
MSNBC is airing a show right now about what went wrong during Katrina and it's an indictment of FEMA and the federal government. Turn it on and watch it you will realize that any excuse for the Bush administration's inaction is simply ridiculous. FEMA turned away aid, doctors, food, water, you name it. FEMA was an obstruction to aid. FEMA took diesel fuel paid for by Jefferson Parish and needed for emergency generators. The sherriff of Jefferson Parish is on telling how he had to send armed deputies to take the fuel. Then their emergency radios went out. They found that FEMA had taken their antenna down and put up their own.

This isn't just a failure to act on the part of the Bush administration, this is outright obstruction of aid to the victims of Hurricane Katrina and anyone who excuses this nonsense needs to suffer the same fate at the hands of the people they excuse.
 
From Knight Ridder News. Annotated for those who are too lazy to read.

Key military help for victims of Hurricane Katrina was delayed

WASHINGTON - Two days after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, President Bush went on national television to announce a massive federal rescue and relief effort.

But orders to move didn't reach key active military units for another three days.

...

The delay this time in tapping the troops, helicopters, trucks, generators, communications and other resources of the 1st Cavalry and the 82nd Airborne is the latest example of how the federal response to Katrina lacked organization and leadership. And it raises further questions about the government's ability to rapidly mobilize the active-duty military now that FEMA has been absorbed into the massive, terrorism-focused Department of Homeland Security.

...

Indeed, the new National Response Plan, the nation's blueprint for responding to disasters that was unveiled with much fanfare in January by Chertoff's predecessor, Tom Ridge, includes a section on responding to catastrophic events.

"Unless it can be credibly established that a mobilizing Federal resource ... is not needed at the catastrophic incident venue, that resource deploys," the plan says. The plan and a 2003 presidential directive put Chertoff, as Homeland Security secretary, in charge of coordinating the federal response.

...

Greenberger, the Maryland homeland security expert, said he wonders whether Chertoff and other top federal officials understand the National Response Plan or even had read it before Katrina.

"Everything he did and everything he has said strongly suggests that that plan was never read," Greenberger said of Chertoff.

...

Also on Friday, Bush said he thinks Congress should examine what role the military can and should play in natural disasters.

"It's important for us to learn from the storm what could have been done better," Bush said during a question-and-answer session with Russian President Vladimir Putin. "This storm will give us an opportunity to review all different types of circumstances to make sure that, you know, the president has the capacity to react."

Former FEMA Director James Lee Witt, who served under President Clinton, believes that the Bush administration is mistaken if it thinks there are impediments to using the military for non-policing help in a disaster.

"When we were there and FEMA was intact, the military was a resource to us," said Witt. "We pulled them in very quickly. I don't know what rule he (Bush) talked about. ... We used military assets a lot."

...

Scott Silliman, a former judge advocate general who's now the executive director of Duke University Law School's Center for Law, Ethics and National Security, said he was surprised that military forces weren't on the scene more quickly after Hurricane Katrina.

"I see no impediment in law or in policy to getting them there," Silliman said. "We could have sent in helicopters. We could have sent in forces to do search and rescue and to provide humanitarian aid. Everything but law enforcement."

He said someone failed to pull the trigger, but he added that an investigation is needed by an independent commission to determine who's to blame.

"They're trying to say that greater federal authority would have made a difference," said George Haddow, a former FEMA deputy chief of staff and the co-author of a textbook on emergency management. "The reality is that the feds are the ones that screwed up in the first place. It's not about authority. It's about leadership. ... They've got all the authority already."
 
BBond, it's not even worth your time. People like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh pound misinformation into these people's head. You're better off teaching an old dog new tricks 🙂
 
This isn't just a failure to act on the part of the Bush administration, this is outright obstruction of aid to the victims of Hurricane Katrina and anyone who excuses this nonsense needs to suffer the same fate at the hands of the people they excuse.
It is not a question of excusing the failures of the federal government, but rather recognizing that these failures occurred across all levels of government and the various relief agencies tapped into the Katrina response.

Placing all the blame on FEMA and the federal government is convenient given the venom you direct towards the Bush Administration, but a truly comprehensive and value added investigation aimed at bringing about true reform will focus on failures at all levels of government.

BBond, it's not even worth your time. People like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh pound misinformation into these people's head. You're better off teaching an old dog new tricks
There is plenty of commentary available, and rightfully so, that is exploring the failures of not just FEMA and the Bush Administration, but also the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana.
 
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
This isn't just a failure to act on the part of the Bush administration, this is outright obstruction of aid to the victims of Hurricane Katrina and anyone who excuses this nonsense needs to suffer the same fate at the hands of the people they excuse.
It is not a question of excusing the failures of the federal government, but rather recognizing that these failures occurred across all levels of government and the various relief agencies tapped into the Katrina response.

Placing all the blame on FEMA and the federal government is convenient given the venom you direct towards the Bush Administration, but a truly comprehensive and value added investigation aimed at bringing about true reform will focus on failures at all levels of government.

BBond, it's not even worth your time. People like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh pound misinformation into these people's head. You're better off teaching an old dog new tricks
There is plenty of commentary available, and rightfully so, that is exploring the failures of not just FEMA and the Bush Administration, but also the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana.

Come on now Starbuck1975, you know better than to bring reality and logic into this.😉 Don't you know that bringing those things into this discussion will send the haters into a tizzy and enrage them further? I hope you prepared yourself for the onslaught of attacks that are sure to follow.
 
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