Feds to require black box event recorders in all new cars

[NoStateofMind]

Feds to require black box event recorders in all new cars

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is expected to issue new regulations next month, that will require a black box style data recorder be fitted in all new cars.

Similar in concept to the familiar black boxes used in commercial aircraft for decades, the boxes are expected to record information about speed, seat belt use and brake application in the final seconds leading up to an accident, the data can be retrieved for later analysis.

Well there goes the neighborhood. I can see the good in this but there are possibilities for abuse as well, albeit far fetched ones. Like insurance claim denials relating to the malfunction of this device or simply incorrect analysis. I'm still too libertarian to want it. Whats your take?

 

[First]

 

[NoStateofMind]

Bored?

 

[Rainsford]

I like the general ideal of having cold, hard data to help investigate car accidents. But I'm skeptical of the ability of the government as a whole to use the capability in an intelligent way.

As with a lot of technology, the problem is that it can encourage tunnel vision that ignores things outside the scope of the technology but within the scope of the problem trying to be solved.

The perfect example is trying to use a black box to determine fault in an accident, which I can imagine will be among its first uses. Except that while a black box can't measure every potential factor in an accident, it can measure some of them, so the natural inclination will be to base accident fault entirely on the factors that a black box can measure. So going even the tiniest bit over the speed limit might make you automatically at fault (since the black box could measure speed), but driving while checking your email on your smart phone won't be considered, since a black box doesn't know you were doing that.

Of course a black box COULD be used intelligently, but that has not been how this kind of technology typically gets used. Think of the ridiculously aggressive use of speed cameras and red light cameras in many areas, despite the fact that they have a questionable contribution to road safety and divert resources from other things that might have more impact. I fear that black boxes in every car could easily turn out like those.

 

[dmcowen674]

Feds to require black box event recorders in all new cars

Well there goes the neighborhood. I can see the good in this but there are possibilities for abuse as well, albeit far fetched ones. Like insurance claim denials relating to the malfunction of this device or simply incorrect analysis. I'm still too libertarian to want it. Whats your take?

Good as long as you and all the other Republicans are caught too :thumbsup:

 

[Ape]

It this becomes true I will never buy a new car again. I'll just keep driving my classic Chevy.

 

[boomerang]

From the article:

Before you start screaming about government overreach, you should know that almost every new car already has a device like this fitted at the factory. For example, GM has fitted one to almost every new car they've built since the early 1990s.

Discussion about the implementation is useless. It's too late for that.

The question is who owns the data in a car you purchased?

http://www.motorists.org/black-boxes/data-ownership

 

[1prophet]

It's been there for years for certain cars like gm, it is the module that controls deployment of the airbag during an accident. The new regulations will just make it mandatory along with the specific data required to be recorded.

Actual module, notice the arrow it has to be mounted in a certain direction in order to work properly, this one is usually under the seat.

Companies that access the information for accident studies.

http://www.rudydegger.com/crash-data-retrieval-cdr/index.asp

http://www.airbagcrash.com/


http://mfes.com/cdr.html


.

 

[Doppel]

I like the general ideal of having cold, hard data to help investigate car accidents. But I'm skeptical of the ability of the government as a whole to use the capability in an intelligent way.

As with a lot of technology, the problem is that it can encourage tunnel vision that ignores things outside the scope of the technology but within the scope of the problem trying to be solved.

The perfect example is trying to use a black box to determine fault in an accident, which I can imagine will be among its first uses. Except that while a black box can't measure every potential factor in an accident, it can measure some of them, so the natural inclination will be to base accident fault entirely on the factors that a black box can measure. So going even the tiniest bit over the speed limit might make you automatically at fault (since the black box could measure speed), but driving while checking your email on your smart phone won't be considered, since a black box doesn't know you were doing that.

Of course a black box COULD be used intelligently, but that has not been how this kind of technology typically gets used. Think of the ridiculously aggressive use of speed cameras and red light cameras in many areas, despite the fact that they have a questionable contribution to road safety and divert resources from other things that might have more impact. I fear that black boxes in every car could easily turn out like those.

Valid concerns. However, end result is this is like a case in a court; the more information you have the better your decision can be.

This was inevitable. These boxes already exist in some cars and have been used to prosecute. I guess I don't really have a problem with it because it is in the public sphere and a machine that can cause multiple fatalities. These will eventually be combined, inevitably, with GPS to give an even better idea of what was going on.

 

[bruceb]

This was discussed at length in a prior thread about 2 days back

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2168869

 

[Jhhnn]

This was discussed at length in a prior thread about 2 days back

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2168869

Yeh- and the paranoid raving & speculation were epic, classic tinfoil hat territory, for sure.

 

[wuliheron]

Yeh- and the paranoid raving & speculation were epic, classic tinfoil hat territory, for sure.

Its the space aliens. They need to keep track of everyone for their latest experiments involving anal probing.

 

[Zebo]

I'll be driving my 59 vette more.

 

[wuliheron]

I'll be driving my 59 vette more.

No problem. The state I live in can jack up your insurance rates if they consider you "unlucky" and I'm sure eventually they'll just charge more for driving without a black box.

 

[NoStateofMind]

This was discussed at length in a prior thread about 2 days back

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2168869

Yeah I rarely search off topic to post in P&N.

 

[shira]

I think we should imbed a black box in every person's body. We should also imbed little cameras in the front, back, and sides of every person's head. And at least one microphone, too, of course. This way, we could know everything a person is doing 24/7. Every day, while the person is sleeping, all data would be uploaded to a central repository and scanned - using a vast data-processing system - for any signs of misbehavior.

Since the data would be totally objective, we can in part pay for this monitoring system by eliminating most of the current criminal-justice system, as trials and most other legal procedures would no longer be necessary.

Those breaking the law - or even conspiring to break the law - would be instantly apprehended and incarcerated. Those engaging in immoral behavior would be instantly be outed to all of their friends, family, and acquaintances. And any person would be able to search anyone else's "incident record" for any signs of misbehavior.

More data is better. If you're an honest, moral person, you have nothing to fear.

 

[wuliheron]

More data is better. If you're an honest, moral person, you have nothing to fear.

Cool! Can I have your credit card numbers, phone number, address, social security number, etc.? If not, does that mean you aren't an honest, moral person?

 

[gevorg]

How long before they require GPS devices that have live transmission of your location and speed to nearby police cars. Cha-ching! :twisted:

 

[Kadarin]

I can see the good in this but there are possibilities for abuse as well, albeit far fetched ones.

You can bet that government/law enforcement intends to abuse this as early and as often as possible.

 

[JSt0rm]

hahahah thats awesome :biggrin:

 

[wuliheron]

How long before they require GPS devices that have live transmission of your location and speed to nearby police cars. Cha-ching! :twisted:

Its not necessary for the anal probe studies, so it probably won't happen. It would also be cheaper just to install cameras everywhere. The German autoban already has cameras that will take your licence plate number and send you ticket if you so much as tailgate someone.

 

[Patranus]

How long before they require GPS devices that have live transmission of your location and speed to nearby police cars. Cha-ching! :twisted:

They already have speed cameras why do they need GPS?

 

[Doppel]

They already have speed cameras why do they need GPS?

Speed cameras aren't everywhere. Some people, like me, will possibly be willing to get GPS for transmission of data to support a lower insurance rate. It will hit critical mass and those resisting will do it on principle or because they know they are a dangerous driver, but in any case their rates will go up. This is also inevitable and beyond question, the idea of GPS motivating insurance rates.

 

[Jhhnn]

Big Brother! Big Brother! AAiiieee! Aaiiieeee! No! No!

Reminds me of the usual raving about surveillance cameras being "everywhere!" What paranoia won't tell you is that ~99.99999% of all "information" recorded is just noise that's never examined by anybody. Only when there's some kind of incident does anybody ever look at it. Other than that, it just gets recorded over, and over, and over.

It's the same with these little gizmos, except that they're private property, embedded in the guts of your car, and they don't transmit anything. It'd require your permission or a court order to access one.

OnStar is a different kind of thing- it's a service you pay for. If you think anybody actually pays attention w/o a court order or you calling them, you're nuts. Yeh, sure, they send out computer generated blurbs to reassure you that what you're paying for actually works, but those are untouched by human hands & eyes. When you quit paying, they definitely quit paying attention at all just to avoid any sort of liability.

Get over yourselves. Nobody cares what you do, at least not in the ways you imagine.

 

[wuliheron]

Big Brother! Big Brother! AAiiieee! Aaiiieeee! No! No!