Feds bust world's largest marijuana dispensary

[Darwin333]

Legalizing pot will not stop the war on drugs. It would be stupid to legalize things such as meth, cocaine, heroin...so they will continue to be fought against.

It is far more stupid to continue the utter failure that has been the war on drugs.

All of those "worse" drugs are more available in stronger doses and cheaper than when the war on drugs started.

Go find an average high school kid and ask him which is easier to get a bag of weed or a six pack of beer (from a store, not steeling dads). I guarantee that 8 out of 10 will say the bag of weed is FAR easier to get.

 

[xj0hnx]

It is far more stupid to continue the utter failure that has been the war on drugs.

All of those "worse" drugs are more available in stronger doses and cheaper than when the war on drugs started.

Go find an average high school kid and ask him which is easier to get a bag of weed or a six pack of beer (from a store, not steeling dads). I guarantee that 8 out of 10 will say the bag of weed is FAR easier to get.

Yip, hell most of the time they won't even have to leave school grounds to get it.

 

[Darwin333]

Yip, hell most of the time they won't even have to leave school grounds to get it.

Exactly, at the very worst it will be delivered to them the next day at school.

 

[xj0hnx]

The reason it will go up is because many people are not doing pot (you keep using heroin and crack, but the thread is about pot) because it is illegal and the potential loss if busted is not worth the gain of doing it.

It's a consistency thing to me. See, I actually believe that people should be free to succeed, and fail, and part of that success and failure, is either avoiding drugs, controlling your use, or crashing and burning. Thing is, I understand the mind behind those that do either, I understand the recreational user that will never do more than smoke a joint a month, and I understand the junkie that can not help but to destroy their life. I've either been there, or seen it. I do not like watching a friend destroy themselves, BUT I would much rather them have the facilities, and avenues to better, and help themselves when, and if, they choose to. Most of all I know that in that state nothing I say will reach them, it is something that you have to do yourself, no one can make you. the other part of the consistency is that we tell people that alcohol is great, drink up,, and have a smoke while you do it, but tel then turn around and tell people "but you can't do these drugs because we said they are" is just bullshit. Alcohol is just as destructive to people's lives as crack.

 

[cybrsage]

It is far more stupid to continue the utter failure that has been the war on drugs.

All of those "worse" drugs are more available in stronger doses and cheaper than when the war on drugs started.

Go find an average high school kid and ask him which is easier to get a bag of weed or a six pack of beer (from a store, not steeling dads). I guarantee that 8 out of 10 will say the bag of weed is FAR easier to get.

You are confusing weed with meth, cocaine, and heroin, the drugs you quoted me as saying would be stupid to legalize.

 

[xj0hnx]

You are confusing weed with meth, cocaine, and heroin, the drugs you quoted me as saying would be stupid to legalize.

He isn't confusing anything. You are confusing that it is a separate issue. To some it is, to some it isn't.

 

[cybrsage]

It's a consistency thing to me. See, I actually believe that people should be free to succeed, and fail, and part of that success and failure, is either avoiding drugs, controlling your use, or crashing and burning.

If they only crashed and burned their own lives I would agree. Unfortunately, on the way down they turn to crime to fuel their addiction.

Thing is, I understand the mind behind those that do either, I understand the recreational user that will never do more than smoke a joint a month, and I understand the junkie that can not help but to destroy their life. I've either been there, or seen it. I do not like watching a friend destroy themselves, BUT I would much rather them have the facilities, and avenues to better, and help themselves when, and if, they choose to. Most of all I know that in that state nothing I say will reach them, it is something that you have to do yourself, no one can make you.

Agreed. Though we need to make it easier for people to get off the highly addictive drugs - not easier to obtain the highly addictive drugs.

the other part of the consistency is that we tell people that alcohol is great, drink up,, and have a smoke while you do it, but tel then turn around and tell people "but you can't do these drugs because we said they are" is just bullshit. Alcohol is just as destructive to people's lives as crack.

I already explained this one. It is because of how intertwined alcohol is with western society. There simply is no way to seperate it from society. It is an evil that we cannot remove. This does not mean we should purposefully add more evil to our society just because we already have some, though.

Weed, I have no problem with legalizing (with roadside tests for DUI, like I said). It is a low addiction item, lower than alcohol. It is the high addiction items that are the problem.

Tobacco would be illegal (due to nicotine) if it were not for how powerful their lobby is.

 

[cybrsage]

Some very interesting notes from your link:

Yes, if you only do it once you will not get addicted. That is a given for all drugs.

To say pot isn't part of culture, or at least a large part of it, is wrong, and naive to think at best. It's been around as long, if not longer than alcohol. It can't be removed, at all. We tried, and look what happened! We now have a war on the US border that's a bigger problem than Iraq or Afghanistan ever was.

Pot, as used by the common man, has only been around in western culture for a very short amount of time. Compare it to alcohol, which has been part of western culture since before recorded history.

There is already a test for DUI that applies to all forms of impairment and is absurdly more fair and rationale than the current tests. Unfortunately they don't think it will generate as much revenue as the current "one size fits all" bullshit that they do so it will never be implemented.

Do you have links to it?

 

[cybrsage]

I don't think you understand what I said. I said it is bad now, lots of people already do drugs and drive. You're saying it will get worse, I am saying that it already is. It may get a little worse, as I have already said, but don't act like current laws do anything to deter drug use, and driving.

Ah, I understand what you are saying now. However, it is our differing views on your next portion that give us differing views on this portion.

Wrong, millions of people do pot, I believe something like a quarter of the population has at the very least admitted to trying it. There are easily several million that smoke it on a regular basis. Very few people don't do it because it's illegal. Also, there just are not large numbers of people that are going to go out and start smoking crack if it were legal, would you? I wouldn't. Education is the very BEST form of defense against drug use.

Most people see pot as being a minor drug, but see crack as being a major drug. Recreational pot use is views akin to recreational alcohol use by most people...just illegal. As such, people who might smoke a joint currently drink a few beers due to being busted with pot ruining their lives. The risk is not worth the fun when there is a legal replacement.

Most likely we will have to agree to disagree here...but at least now your first statement makes sense to me.

This is both untrue, and true, weird huh? Because they are illegal, prices are very high compared to their legal counterparts, this causes people that are addicted to have to resort to nefarious means to support their habit, robbing, dealing, prostitution, etc ...if the drugs were legalized people could have much better access to doctors to work out addiction issues, or continue to use much cheaper, safer drugs, and not have to resort to crime to fund a habit.

This is of course not even touching on the real violence of the cartels that control the industry, you know, the ones that use a lot of illegal immigrants that you do not like. Why not take that power away from them, provide consenting adults with a real choice, AND make incredible amounts of money for our country all at the same time?

It really is a chicken and egg kind of thing. I am personally for legalizing pot and using it as a test case to see what happens with crime, etc, due to it. Each individual drug will have to be looked at by itself to see if it can then be legalized...and IMO the addictiveness of the substance (as well as its lethality) should be used as a basic for legalization/illegalization.

Pot is benign enough to experiment with. We can always make it illegal again if it fails miserably.

False, pot, cocaine, opiates have been part of American culture since it started. Hell Cocaine is where Coke a Cola got it's fucking name, it is still used today in nasal, and other micro vascular surgeries, and opiates have been used to treat pain for centuries. You should really study the history of these drugs and their origins.

Lead based paint was also a part of American culture...

The common man did not use the drugs for recreation, like they do with alcohol. That is the issue, they have not been part of everyday life. Coca Cola added it for the purpose of addicting their clients while giving them a buzz of enjoyment.

Pain treatment is not recreational use...it is pain treatment. We still use it for that today.

 

[Darwin333]

You are confusing weed with meth, cocaine, and heroin, the drugs you quoted me as saying would be stupid to legalize.

No, I am not.

 

[cybrsage]

No, I am not.

Then your post was simply a troll post? It certainly was not discussing what you quoted. I am left with you either being confused or you simply trolling. Which is it?

. It would be stupid to legalize things such as meth, cocaine, heroin

Go find an average high school kid and ask him which is easier to get a bag of weed or a six pack of beer (from a store, not steeling dads). I guarantee that 8 out of 10 will say the bag of weed is FAR easier to get.

 

[Ns1]

The common man did not use the drugs for recreation, like they do with alcohol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_den

 

[Darwin333]

Yes, if you only do it once you will not get addicted. That is a given for all drugs.

That is not the intent of what was written.

Do you have links to it?

Not on me, I think they are on my work laptop but its actually very common sense.

Why does being under the influence (of anything) impair your driving? It is almost exclusively because it slows your reaction time. So how do we currently discover if you are an impaired driver, we measure your BAC which is not an accurate reading of actual impairment. Wouldn't it make much more sense to actually measure reaction time at the time that you are under suspicion of impaired driving? This could easily be tested on small portable video game type devices and not only would it be cheaper and more accurate but it wouldn't matter what drug (or lack of sleep, or whatever) you were on, impaired is impaired.

 

[Darwin333]

Then your post was simply a troll post? It certainly was not discussing what you quoted. I am left with you either being confused or you simply trolling. Which is it?

You are confused.

Legalizing pot will not stop the war on drugs. It would be stupid to legalize things such as meth, cocaine, heroin...so they will continue to be fought against.

I was simply pointing out the epic failure of the war on drugs that you mentioned would continue on, specifically against the drugs that you listed in your post.

 

[xj0hnx]

Ah, I understand what you are saying now. However, it is our differing views on your next portion that give us differing views on this portion.

:thumbsup:

Most people see pot as being a minor drug, but see crack as being a major drug. Recreational pot use is views akin to recreational alcohol use by most people...just illegal. As such, people who might smoke a joint currently drink a few beers due to being busted with pot ruining their lives. The risk is not worth the fun when there is a legal replacement.

Getting busted for a DUI will ruin your life, alcohol is not immune from wrecking someone's life. As a matter of fact, someone very close to me went into the hospital this afternoon to detox from a six month binge they've been on. Tried at home, but alcohol withdrawal is so bad (worse than heroin) that you can die. So you see, I don't have a view of alcohol as a recreational drug, to me it is as bad as ANY "hard" street drug, crack, heroin included.

Most likely we will have to agree to disagree here...but at least now your first statement makes sense to me.

That's fine 🙂

It really is a chicken and egg kind of thing. I am personally for legalizing pot and using it as a test case to see what happens with crime, etc, due to it. Each individual drug will have to be looked at by itself to see if it can then be legalized...and IMO the addictiveness of the substance (as well as its lethality) should be used as a basic for legalization/illegalization.

But that's the thing, we already have legal drugs that are as destructive, and deadly, and addictive as any illegal drug. Making pot illegal will do nothing to the crime rate, it is pretty cheap, not addictive, and most people, at least that I know, barely regard it as a drug, it's thought of as beer. Right now violent drug gangs control those drugs, wouldn't it be better, and safer if pharmacies, ad laboratories did?

Lead based paint was also a part of American culture...

That's just asinine, of course there are lots of things that kill us that have been part of our culture, my point was that you said it wasn't, but in fact it has been.

The common man did not use the drugs for recreation, like they do with alcohol. That is the issue, they have not been part of everyday life. Coca Cola added it for the purpose of addicting their clients while giving them a buzz of enjoyment.

This is simply not true. Before heroin for instance was banned it was very common, and used as, funny enough, a way to get off morphine lol.

Pain treatment is not recreational use...it is pain treatment. We still use it for that today.

This is a subject that warrants it's own individual thread. The state of pain management in this country is God fucking awful, and it is because of the drug scheduling, and how society views drugs in the management of pain. I mean nobody gives some shit because they need insulin to live, so why give someone grief because they need morphine to function?

 

[TheNinja]

Wow....this is actually a HUGE deal. The Feds recently shutdown the largest (by far) dispensary in Berkeley too, now they shut Harborside down, which has a gigantic presence in Oakland the East Bay.

The sad thing is, these 2 places never had a crime problem, they were selling legit substances that were tested and posted (as far as %s). They brought in money to the local governments and gave a lot money to charities.

Do they honestly think people are going to stop smoking MJ b/c they shut it down? Now you have 100,00 people that are going to SWARM the smaller dispensaries who won't be able to safely handle the numbers, or people will start buying from the dude on the street and feel like a criminal buying who knows what kind of crap weed, from some guy you hope is legit.

Yes, I realize a majority of that 100,000 are not daily smokers but I just can't believe how Obama's administration has gone after this stuff after he promised to leave it to the states. He dares to do it in California b/c we are NEVER going to vote republican anyway. He could come through and take all the hottest women as his concubines and people would still vote Democrat.

This is a sad situation for state laws/power everywhere. They should spend the money on something else.

 

[marincounty]

AFAIK the Harborside Club is still open. Their website is still up. The Feds have moved to confiscate the properties housing Harborside- I believe it is still open right now.

 

[TheNinja]

AFAIK the Harborside Club is still open. Their website is still up. The Feds have moved to confiscate the properties housing Harborside- I believe it is still open right now.

I think they pull a similar tactic with all the dispensaries. For example in Berkeley they basically threatened the land owner with huge fines and imprisonment if he continued to rent out space to Berkeley Patients' Group. So they don't necessarily shut down the Dispensary they just tell the land owner he can no longer rent/lease to the dispensary.

What's even more pathetic is that they are trying to take the property away from the owner claiming it was being used for illegal drug activities. The government would sell the property and keep the money.

No matter where you stand on MMJ or the "drug war" for the Federal govt. to be able to do something like that is just not right.

Also of note....Harborside is the city's 2ND largest retail tax payer! Now the city will lose money and will have even more people on unemployment.

Harborside employs more than 100 people and pays some $3 million in state and local taxes, DeAngelo said. More than $1 million goes to Oakland alone.

 

[bfdd]

Feds coming after our cash crop. Fuck the Feds.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

No matter where you stand on MMJ or the "drug war" for the Federal govt. to be able to do something like that is just not right.

This is all part of the process of turning America into a third world country. Our government is no longer interested in the peoples' best interest, but instead the interest of the people running the plutonomy.

 

[Ns1]

I think they pull a similar tactic with all the dispensaries. For example in Berkeley they basically threatened the land owner with huge fines and imprisonment if he continued to rent out space to Berkeley Patients' Group. So they don't necessarily shut down the Dispensary they just tell the land owner he can no longer rent/lease to the dispensary.

They've been doing this tactic for a while now. Lots of LA dispensary locations got a similar notice.

 

[piasabird]

If you make money from illegal activities that is racketeering.

I would rather see the feds decriminalize pot, but untill then charge everyone with the appropriate fines and jail time in a federal pen. This is what happens when you try to make light of people's illegal activities. I also think municipalites not in congruence with the Federal law should have everyone that allows such activities be arrested and charged with corruption and failure to enforce the federal laws. Charge everyone involved with a federal offense and make them unemployable.

 

[Ns1]

If you make money from illegal activities that is racketeering.

I would rather see the feds decriminalize pot, but untill then charge everyone with the appropriate fines and jail time in a federal pen. This is what happens when you try to make light of people's illegal activities. I also think municipalites not in congruence with the Federal law should have everyone that allows such activities be arrested and charged with corruption and failure to enforce the federal laws. Charge everyone involved with a federal offense and make them unemployable.

Yep, that'll sure make things better.

</sarcasm>

 

[Pr0d1gy]

If you make money from illegal activities that is racketeering.

I would rather see the feds decriminalize pot, but untill then charge everyone with the appropriate fines and jail time in a federal pen. This is what happens when you try to make light of people's illegal activities. I also think municipalites not in congruence with the Federal law should have everyone that allows such activities be arrested and charged with corruption and failure to enforce the federal laws. Charge everyone involved with a federal offense and make them unemployable.

How about we arrest all the criminals up on Wall Street and Capitol Hill that robbed this country of it's wealth and are attempting to turn it into a 3rd world country?

 

[bfdd]

why are you guys trying to harm small business? why are you trying to stifle entrepreneurship? you guys really must hate the "american way".