Fedora 14 is out

[SickBeast]

I'm downloading it now. I'll report back with my impressions.

I booted up a beta version not long ago and it seemed really fast.

 

[SickBeast]

After running Fedora 14 for the day, I've decided to remove it. There's too much that you need to configure for it that Ubuntu does by default.

That said, I was blown away by how fast Fedora installed onto my system. It had to be under 5 minutes. I also found the system to be faster and more responsive than Ubuntu.

The downsides were the slow boot process, the archaic security setup, and the painstaking way of getting everything going (flash, codecs, etc).

It also installed the "Nouveau" driver by default, which seems to be a PITA to remove (the NV driver tried to do it automatically but it couldn't).

Overall, Fedora is very nice, but it's only useful if you're comfortable setting up a bunch of stuff manually.

 

[lxskllr]

I play around with distros in a vm on occasion, but I've pretty much settled on Debian based distros(with Gnome) for daily use. The setup just feels more comfortable to me.

 

[VinDSL]

After running Fedora 14 for the day, I've decided to remove it. [...]

Thanks, for the report! The last Fedora distro I tried was Fedora 10.

A lot of ppl swoon over Fedora, and I wanted to see what all the rumpus was about. But, like you, I removed it within a few hours.

To be fair, I used to *feel* much the same way about Ubuntu. I didn't start using it, as my primary OS, until 9.04. 😉

 

[VinDSL]

[...]I've pretty much settled on Debian based distros(with Gnome) for daily use.

Same here...

I 'cut my Linux teeth' on Debian, back in the last century. I felt it was the most promising distro, but back in those days, the mans were written in Northern Euro languages, and support was limited to BBSs in Germany, Sweden, et cetera, and I couldn't communicate with them. I just looked at the coding examples, and extrapolated the best I could. It was V frustrating!

Thus, I finally settled on Caldera, which was Utah-based (if I remember correctly).

Back in the early days, I ran mostly DR-DOS, WinNT, and OS/2 machines. Linux was something I tried, occasionally, when I was bored, and seeking adventure.

That said, I was blown away by how fast Fedora installed onto my system. It had to be under 5 minutes.

Yeah, everyone has come a l-o-n-g way, since the old days.

I've tried 100's of distros, over the years, as a hobby. These days, I figure 30 minutes is about normal, for modern Linux installs.

I think Linux (on the desktop) is finally ready for prime-time...

 

[SickBeast]

IMO Linux isn't quite up to par with Windows in a few key areas. For example, my Canon i9900 printer isn't supported (I have to use 3rd party software which costs $30). Then, there are the suspend issues.

Linux blows Windows and even OSX away in several areas, but until they can fix these issues, they will not capture the mainstream market. Instead of adding new features, they should focus on supporting more hardware and ironing out these bugs that have been plaguing them once and for all.

 

[lxskllr]

Imo, Linux is least ready for the middle of the road user. The guy that can get around Windows, and knows a little bit, but still has the occasional issue. For him, the limitations would be frustrating, and he doesn't have the technical knowledge to resolve them himself. Proficient users can fix things on their own, and n00bs know even less about Linux than Windows, so they don't mess with it at all. It's just set and forget for them.

 

[Nothinman]

IMO Linux isn't quite up to par with Windows in a few key areas. For example, my Canon i9900 printer isn't supported (I have to use 3rd party software which costs $30). Then, there are the suspend issues.

That's Canon's fault, without proper documentation it's a PITA to reverse engineer a driver. They're not going to do anything until people start asking for Linux support. It's better to just buy a printer that speaks PCL or PS and has networking built-in.

And if CUPS on Linux doesn't support it, I would bet that OS X doesn't either.

 

[VinDSL]

It's better to just buy a printer that speaks PCL or PS and has networking built-in.

A couple of thoughts...

I've bought my last few printers at Goodwill Industries. No kidding.

The last one was a top-end, office quality, HP DeskJet (circa 2002) with a duplexer (auto 2-side printing) -- a $400-$500 printer, when it was new. I bought it for (like) $12.99.

I got it home, cleaned it up, installed new carts, and hot-plugged it into Ubu. When I went to the printer utility, it was already sitting in there, fully configured, with no intervention required on my part. Hello?!?!? I had no idea CUPS was capable of doing this.

Looking around on Google, I found out there were no printer drivers available, for this printer, on modern versions of Winders, e.g. Vista/7. This is probably why 'they' donated it to a thrift shop.

Secondly...

Printers are a dime-a-dozen. Vendors practically give them away these days. The ink/toner is where they bend you over the counter. Consumables are a billion dollar industry. The printers, themselves, are a loss-leader.

A friend of mine waits until Fry's Electronics has a sale on Canon printers (for $30 or whatever), buys 2-3 of them, and sticks them in the closet. When the ink runs out, he throws the printer in the trash, and opens a new box.

I think this is a little extreme, but he said the ink costs more than the printer, and he never has to worry about paper jams, and so forth.

Just saying...

I wouldn't let a printer rule my life! 😎

 

[mfenn]

the archaic security setup

What's archaic about it?

RHEL guy here, so maybe your idea of archaic is my idea of "next year's new feature". 😀

 

[OBLAMA2009]

i was going to post on fedora 14. you have to be really careful with most new linux distros. most of them are really buggy and f14 is one of them unfortunately. installed it a week ago, it looked really nice but after about a half hour while using the browser it totally crashed, zap! this was on a computer that runs mint 9 for months at a time with no problems

 

[SickBeast]

What's archaic about it?

RHEL guy here, so maybe your idea of archaic is my idea of "next year's new feature". 😀

I didn't like the fact that I had to add myself to a "sudoer" list in order to do things as root.

IMO Fedora is just a huge PITA. I could see its use if you need to setup some sort of advanced server. For desktop users I don't find it very interesting.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

That's Canon's fault, without proper documentation it's a PITA to reverse engineer a driver. They're not going to do anything until people start asking for Linux support. It's better to just buy a printer that speaks PCL or PS and has networking built-in.

And if CUPS on Linux doesn't support it, I would bet that OS X doesn't either.

It might be canons fault but it's still the Linux users problem.

CUPS do print to most printers though, it's usually that you can't set options properly, they will print normal quality regardless of settings.

You're right though, a PCL printer is worth its weight (which used to be considerable) and will work.

The multifunction machines usually need several installed general drivers and it's pretty much hit and miss, for lexmarks the printing usually works just fine, for Canons the scanning usually works, for HP, it's hit and miss but most do work with printing AND scanning.

I have an old UNISYS laser that i use a lot at home, it was made for *nix.

 

[SickBeast]

I managed to get my i9900 to work through CUPS by using a PIXMA iP8500 driver. I can only print on 8.5"x11" paper, but that's all I need for the most part anyway.

 

[Nothinman]

I didn't like the fact that I had to add myself to a "sudoer" list in order to do things as root.

IMO Fedora is just a huge PITA. I could see its use if you need to setup some sort of advanced server. For desktop users I don't find it very interesting.

I've always hated Ubuntu's default of no root password and relying on just sudo because that means there's only password for attackers to worry about.

It might be canons fault but it's still the Linux users problem.

The user should be doing research on hardware support before purchasing anything. Hell, I've had a ton more problems with Windows drivers than I have Linux. Lots of hardware claims to work in Windows but the drivers end up being crap.

 

[Crusty]

My Canon Pixma ip4000R showed up in CUPS without me doing anything, and the printer is only attached to my Wifi.

Imagine my surprise when I hit print without configuring a damn thing and it starts working no problem. Very different than my experiences a few years back trying to get a shitty Lexmark to print.

 

[SickBeast]

The user should be doing research on hardware support before purchasing anything. Hell, I've had a ton more problems with Windows drivers than I have Linux. Lots of hardware claims to work in Windows but the drivers end up being crap.

I've had my printer for 6 years now. It's a high quality wide-format inkjet with 8 different ink colors. Printers like this are rare and very expensive (it was $600 when I bought it). To say that I should have done my research is ridiculous IMO. For Linux to catch on, people need to be able to install it on their current systems. It would be cheaper for me to buy a whole new computer than it would for me to replace my printer for the sake of running Linux.

 

[Nothinman]

I've had my printer for 6 years now. It's a high quality wide-format inkjet with 8 different ink colors. Printers like this are rare and very expensive (it was $600 when I bought it). To say that I should have done my research is ridiculous IMO. For Linux to catch on, people need to be able to install it on their current systems. It would be cheaper for me to buy a whole new computer than it would for me to replace my printer for the sake of running Linux.

I'd be surprised if that printer worked in Win7 64-bit as well, just because of it's age. And most people don't spend that kind of money on a printer anyway, they just head down to BestBuy and get whatever the dude in blue recommends.

 

[VinDSL]

I didn't like the fact that I had to add myself to a "sudoer" list in order to do things as root.[...]

I've always hated Ubuntu's default of no root password and relying on just sudo [...]

True, but that's easy enough to fix... 😉

vindsl@Zuul:~$ sudo passwd root
[sudo] password for vindsl: 
Enter new UNIX password: 
Retype new UNIX password: 
passwd: password updated successfully
vindsl@Zuul:~$

 

[KeypoX]

A couple of thoughts...

I've bought my last few printers at Goodwill Industries. No kidding.

The last one was a top-end, office quality, HP DeskJet (circa 2002) with a duplexer (auto 2-side printing) -- a $400-$500 printer, when it was new. I bought it for (like) $12.99.

I got it home, cleaned it up, installed new carts, and hot-plugged it into Ubu. When I went to the printer utility, it was already sitting in there, fully configured, with no intervention required on my part. Hello?!?!? I had no idea CUPS was capable of doing this.

Looking around on Google, I found out there were no printer drivers available, for this printer, on modern versions of Winders, e.g. Vista/7. This is probably why 'they' donated it to a thrift shop.

Secondly...

Printers are a dime-a-dozen. Vendors practically give them away these days. The ink/toner is where they bend you over the counter. Consumables are a billion dollar industry. The printers, themselves, are a loss-leader.

A friend of mine waits until Fry's Electronics has a sale on Canon printers (for $30 or whatever), buys 2-3 of them, and sticks them in the closet. When the ink runs out, he throws the printer in the trash, and opens a new box.

I think this is a little extreme, but he said the ink costs more than the printer, and he never has to worry about paper jams, and so forth.

Just saying...

I wouldn't let a printer rule my life! 😎

You should help your friend out, let him know he can refill ink/toner for pennies.

 

[VinDSL]

You should help your friend out, let him know he can refill ink/toner for pennies.

He's a busy guy... Time is money too, yes?

I used to have a neighbor that owned a construction company. He paid a neighborhood kid $20 to mow his lawn. I asked him why he didn't do it himself.

"Hell," he said. "I wouldn't start a lawn mower for $20!"

Same thing, I guess, fiddling around with refills and dirty platen rollers... 😉

I used to refill my own carts (re-ink ribbons) and so forth, but I found a place on the web that sells 3 x HP51645A (HP45) for $17 with free (First Class) shipping, plus they're 100% guaranteed,

Not a fart in a carload... 😎

 

[Nothinman]

True, but that's easy enough to fix... 😉

vindsl@Zuul:~$ sudo passwd root
[sudo] password for vindsl: 
Enter new UNIX password: 
Retype new UNIX password: 
passwd: password updated successfully
vindsl@Zuul:~$

I know how to fix it, I just think it's a bad default because IMO it lowers the system's overall security.

 

[Bateluer]

I know how to fix it, I just think it's a bad default because IMO it lowers the system's overall security.

QFT. Its easy to fix. But things should be secure by default, and require the user to open them up. Not open by default, and require the user to secure.

 

[SickBeast]

I've installed a CIS on my i9900 and I love it. I never have to refill the ink. It feels like I turned my inkjet printer into a laser printer. The kit only cost me $34 off Ebay. My photos come out way nicer than they would on a laser printer as well. Plus I can print 13"x19" posters.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I know how to fix it, I just think it's a bad default because IMO it lowers the system's overall security.

I agree.

I understand Sickbeast's frustration; however, from a security standpoint it is a great idea to restrict use of the sudoers file by default.

If my line of thinking is right, it is one way to prevent against race condition vulnerabilities as you are calling a setuid() and then supplying a program to execute (Though the latest kernels may be using some more secure calls)

Additionally, limiting sudo also limits switching into other peoples accounts as sudo doesn't just give you root access. It just defaults to that in most implementations these days.

You can always just 'su' to root and then run whatever you want from there though.

-Kevin