Fed begins unlimited QE

[Fayd]

Except the economy does not suffer from a lack of investment, but instead a lack of spending

it suffers from a lack of both.

 

[werepossum]

It won't be good for Obama. People understand that the last two didn't work, and they see the debt climbing. Count on R's to pound on it, hard.

I dunno, I don't think this is on most voters' radar at all. And as far as the Pubbies, you can give them all the ammunition in the world but as long as they are arranged in a circular firing squad . . .

It'll probably take a decade or so to show that the Austrians were right.

They'll never admit it. Eventually things are going to mprove in spite of government's best efforts, in which case they'll credit themselves and their actions with saving the nation and probably the world.

You guys poopooing this saw what the markets did today right? This was an unexpected move and not already priced in. I don't know when the announcement was made, but from today's DJI chart I'm guessing around 12:30.

Problem is the market isn't tied so tightly to the actual economy anymore. A corporation can lay off a buttload of workers and get a big stock price for cutting costs, even though its ability to create wealth also drops. Publicly traded corporations will no doubt become more profitable and some of that will trickle down, but the dynamics still don't favor expansion within the USA. How many companies are looking to expand in America when a bureaucrat's politically motivated whim can change a profitable venture into an unprofitable venture in the blink of an eye? China's labor costs are rising and for many products Chinese production is nearing parity with US production, but China is still a much safer place to build a new factory. I may be wrong - in fact, I hope I am - but while I think this will have a sustained beneficial effect on stock prices, I don't see it affecting employment much.

 

[Anarchist420]

Will it be good long term? Probably not, but I doubt anyone knows...

it goes against the laws of economics, so we do know. The burst will be unsustainable so there will be a Massive correction eventually.

 

[dullard]

Other than no one in this thread proposed tax cuts, but instead proposed a debit card loaded up with say $1k, it's not really.

I just don't understand how a debit card is that much different from the IRS sending people a check in the year 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Stimulus_Act_of_2008

"Tax rebates created by the law were paid to individual U.S. taxpayers during 2008. Most taxpayers below the income limit received a rebate of at least $300 per person ($600 for married couples filing jointly). Eligible taxpayers received, along with their individual payment, $300 per dependent child under the age of 17. The payment was equal to the payer's net income tax liability, but could not exceed $600 (for a single person) or $1200 (married couple filing jointly)...

On April 25, 2008, President Bush announced that the rebates will start going out on April 28, 2008 and the paper checks will be sent out starting on March 28, earlier than previously announced by the IRS."

Please tell me how a paper check mailed to you with $600 to $1200 is that much different than a debit card mailed to you with $1000. A check is very slightly easier to save than spend. But it doesn't take a genius to buy ~$1000 in cash with a $1000 debit card then save that cash. Buy a half ounce of gold for example and then sell it back 2 minutes later. Or buy coins from the US mint. Or sell the debit card online. Etc.

 

[airdata]

Love that gif...

Is it too late to buy gold?>

 

[Cerb]

Except the economy does not suffer from a lack of investment, but instead a lack of spending

On the surface, maybe, but investment is what we need. What it truly suffers from is lack of enough production to balance out the consumption, which can be gradually worked out with spending by way of investing into our own domestic infrastructure. Spending that is not investing is just propping up the system, not making it any more healthy.

I'm not a fan of the Fed, but they're stuck between a political rock and hard place. If they don't help cause inflation, we'll get deflation, and risk a major crash instead of a downward glide. But as long as China is able to have free trade, with an artificially low currency, and we rely on consumption to prop up our economy, rather than producing more to provide real value, there's no way out. The latter will take multinational corporations, and/or Congress, to help fix. How much agreement with, and faith in, do we have with them? Yeah...

It's not just spending, but what kind of spending. We need the kind of spending that can help add long-term value (increase trade balance), not just move dollars between pockets. Investment may not always be that kind of spending, but that kind spending is investment, and is part of what we need. Business hoarding money don't need to throw it all out; they need to spend it where it can make more money for everyone, including them (IE, enlightened self-interest). A bunch of people and corps spending only props up short-term numbers, if that spending isn't investment in our domestic economy.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Love that gif...

Is it too late to buy gold?>

It is now. Just wait until Republicans regain control of everything and hop in before they run the economy into the ground and then use austerity to fix it.

 

[Genx87]

http://reason.com/archives/2012/09/13/occupy-the-fed

The rich love this. The rest of the us can get bent.

 

[mshan]

Love that gif...

Is it too late to buy gold?>

Reminds me of this article I remember glancing at on ZH website: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/what-30-years-gold-confiscation-us-government-looks

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

http://reason.com/archives/2012/09/13/occupy-the-fed

The rich love this. The rest of the us can get bent.

Obamanomics...QE3 is both regressive and trickle down. Progressives don't seem to be upset though. Go figure.

 

[chucky2]

I just don't understand how a debit card is that much different from the IRS sending people a check in the year 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Stimulus_Act_of_2008

"Tax rebates created by the law were paid to individual U.S. taxpayers during 2008. Most taxpayers below the income limit received a rebate of at least $300 per person ($600 for married couples filing jointly). Eligible taxpayers received, along with their individual payment, $300 per dependent child under the age of 17. The payment was equal to the payer's net income tax liability, but could not exceed $600 (for a single person) or $1200 (married couple filing jointly)...

On April 25, 2008, President Bush announced that the rebates will start going out on April 28, 2008 and the paper checks will be sent out starting on March 28, earlier than previously announced by the IRS."

Please tell me how a paper check mailed to you with $600 to $1200 is that much different than a debit card mailed to you with $1000. A check is very slightly easier to save than spend. But it doesn't take a genius to buy ~$1000 in cash with a $1000 debit card then save that cash. Buy a half ounce of gold for example and then sell it back 2 minutes later. Or buy coins from the US mint. Or sell the debit card online. Etc.

Other than the tax refund aspect missing, it's not really any different, other than you can spend it immediately and most people aren't going to go through the hassle of converting their "free" money debit card into cash to save...they're going to use it.

What's the problem here? You'd rather have zero money and be on the hook as a taxpayer or would you rather have $1000 and be on the hook as a taxpayer?

Chuck

 

[bfdd]

Obamanomics...QE3 is both regressive and trickle down. Progressives don't seem to be upset though. Go figure.

Cause they are ignorant fucks who support central planning. Most are actually conservative socialists flying the progressive flag

 

[momeNt]

Write in Ron Paul. Save our country for economic ruin.

Printing money just delays the restructuring that is needed allowing the economy to get worse. The backlash will be astronomical.

 

[Smoblikat]

QE1, QE2 and now QE3. I remember there being some quote about insanity?

lol @ all the idiots who think trickle down economics don't work, yet support QE. QE IS TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS. First the most power, the money printers, give money to the uber powerful uber rich institutions and peoples, who then dole it out to the super powerful and super rich, who then give it to business owners and it's supposed to trickle to the rest of us. With one little caveat, it plus interest needs to flow right back to the top. Trickle down/trickle up can't have one with out the other. so I lol

Dont forget that everytime someone exchanges money its going to be taxed too.

Write in Ron Paul. Save our country for economic ruin.

Printing money just delays the restructuring that is needed allowing the economy to get worse. The backlash will be astronomical.

No, no, no, no, no. Why do you want obama to win?
Ron Paul isnt going to win, period. A vote for paul is a vote against Romney and for obama. Either vote for Romney or dont vote at all. The last thing we need is another 4 years of hoping things will change for the better. Not that Romney is that good, but hes better than messiah. Besides, Gary Johnson has a better chance than Paul does. If I was voting this year I would vote for Paul 100% without hesitation, but Im not voting since I can no longer give my vote to Romney after the things he has said.

 

[Fayd]

Dont forget that everytime someone exchanges money its going to be taxed too.



No, no, no, no, no. Why do you want obama to win?
Ron Paul isnt going to win, period. A vote for paul is a vote against Romney and for obama. Either vote for Romney or dont vote at all. The last thing we need is another 4 years of hoping things will change for the better. Not that Romney is that good, but hes better than messiah. Besides, Gary Johnson has a better chance than Paul does. If I was voting this year I would vote for Paul 100% without hesitation, but Im not voting since I can no longer give my vote to Romney after the things he has said.

i'm honestly beginning to see that romney is nearly just as bad for the economy as obama is.

 

[Darwin333]

Print mo money!! This should make gas go even higher, yay for us!

I really fail to see how buying mortgage debt will help the labor market, maybe I am missing something? All I see this doing is devaluing the dollar even more.

If they truly wanted to help the economy, they would send out checks to people with the following conditions: it must be used to pay off debt, and those without debt must invest it.

While that would be good for Americans long term it would be bad for the economy short term.

 

[chucky2]

The thing is, what is the projection on what Congress will look like after 2012? Electing Romney with a Rep House and further weakened Dem Senate would likely be very bad. Electing Romney with a more even House and the same Dem Senate or a stronger Dem Senate might not be too bad.

Same type of deal of Bummer gets re-elected.

I think one can take one of two views: Elect a POTUS and try and get the Congress to be controlled by same party, so as to run the US into the ground ASAP so we can then hit reset, or, Elect a POTUS and make sure that Congress is controlled by the other party so there will be as much gridlock as possible.

In 2008 and 9, I was really hoping for the Dems to have their sh1t together so they could perform the latter. But, unfortunately, they're an iceberg incapable of sinking the Titanic that just rammed into them, so now we've got gridlock with the 2010 elections. Which is worse? Hard to say...

Chuck

 

[Darwin333]

Stock market investors don't find hyperinflation to be a credible worry-the stock market surged on the announcement, finishing up for the day well over 200 points and at it's highest level since 2007. But I guess these basement internet experts know more than people who do it for a living.

The price of stocks rise with inflation. Its not exactly a hedge but all things being equal the stock will be worth the same in inflation adjusted dollars. Heck a good hedge against hyper-inflation (much better than gold) would be way out of the money call options on the S&P index. You will pay pennies on the dollar so you have a ton of leverage versus instruments with no leverage like gold and you also have a defined loss if hyperinflation doesn't hit.

 

[bfdd]

A vote for Romney or Obama is a wasted vote. The Republicans and Democrats have stolen our country from us and you idiots who are part of their parties just keep perpetuating it. NO PARTY owes claim to the Government of the United States, only the people do. The sooner you realize this the sooner we can end all the stupid non-sense and bickering.

 

[chucky2]

Yes, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that a vote for anyone other than Romney if you're not voting for Obama is a vote for Obama. By casting a vote for someone not Romney you are basically helping to elect Obama.

Myself I think I'm going to vote Huntsman (regardless of his platform). Reason: I'm not voting for the Bummer, and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney. Not voting I feel is unpatriotic, so I will vote. Mine as well cast a vote for the next biggest party, which I believe is Huntsman.

Chuck

 

[bfdd]

I'm voting for Gary Johnson because he has a better resume and more experience. Plus he and I tend to agree on most things. I do not support the Libertarian Party or any other Party though.

 

[chucky2]

It's not that I support that specific party, I just support getting rid of two party control. If the Green party was ahead of the Libertarian party, I'd vote Green this time.

 

[hal2kilo]

Oh noes, the 4,797th prediction of hyper-inflation I've heard in the past 30 years. Trust me, I'm shaking in my boots, THIS time.

Yea, the original CEO of the parent company that owned our division, a Mr. Figgie was always harping on about the evils of hyperinflation and even wrote a book about it. Soon after he was caught shifting corporate assets to his son's private company while at the same time driving the whole coporation into the ground. He was subsequently voted out of the Board. Oh, and this was back in the late 80's.

 

[nextJin]

No, no, no, no, no. Why do you want obama to win?
Ron Paul isnt going to win, period. A vote for paul is a vote against Romney and for obama. Either vote for Romney or dont vote at all. The last thing we need is another 4 years of hoping things will change for the better. Not that Romney is that good, but hes better than messiah. Besides, Gary Johnson has a better chance than Paul does. If I was voting this year I would vote for Paul 100% without hesitation, but Im not voting since I can no longer give my vote to Romney after the things he has said.

I'm a Paul supporter, veteran in the Liberty Movement and founding tea party member pre neoconservative takeover in early 2009. My job, and my political purpose in life since the RNC has been to burn the GOP to the fucking ground.

I outright slam motherfuckers over and over with facts and true conservative values almost weekly and have brought a lot of people over to the sane side.

I crush bullshit conservative arguments, if people bring up election talk with me in the real world and they are Romney supporters they usually aren't afterwards.

I might not be able to convert most liberals because of vast difference in philosophy but uneducated Republicans who juggle Hannitys nuts are easily persuaded to re educate themselves.

Case in point, if you want any change you have to have a significant event to trigger it. A crushing GOP defeat and a horrible 2nd term (appointed supreme court judges be dammed) with a failed economic policy would be the perfect weather needed for change. Be it a new party or a dramatic shift of power within the GOP.

 

[bfdd]

nextJin it's funny you mention you don't convert most "liberals"(as I take that to mean Democrat/Obama supporters), but are more successful with uneducated Republicans. I find that to be true as well. I talk to a friend who supports Obama, nothing I say can sway their dedication. I present information and logic to a self proclaimed "Republican" and they more easily willing to look into it or accept it. Maybe that means their more gullible, who knows. Just thought it was funny as I had recently had a conversation with my girlfriend about this. I've almost converted my dad into a Liberty supporter, maybe a Gary Johnson voter, but he was so let down with the Perot loss he just wants to see his "enemy" lose. Sigh.