Fear, Neo Conservative movement, Terrorism, 9/11 and how all this has come to be...

[Czar]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Czar

do you then favor the famous moral value of free will?

Absolutely...my position is advocating and defending Free Will.

I agree but thats also the case. We cant force our will on others. Take for example Iran, it is slowly moving towards a propper modern country, very slowly. There are ofcorse a few setbacks but slowly when the old generation passes changes come. If we force the change then it gives everyone a certain amount of national pride, good example there is with the axis of evil speech, everyone in iran condamned it. It is the nations own free will which is slowly changing because of outside influances, people look at how others have it and then want some of that.

You can say that its their culture is changing and culture is as we all know very intertwined with morals.

The difference between the left and right is because of all this not as big as many think. The main difference is the time people are ready to wait for results.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Google for gspot.

Now that's a new one. 😉

 

[Merovingian]

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Only a fool would believe that fighting against Islamoterrorism is "extremist." Just more leftwingers unable to differentiate context and values... HWGA (Here We Go Again)!!! Evil America, stupid Americans, who are no better than the Jihadists and their supporters! Weeeee! :roll:

"Fanatics of any type are dangerous. The Wolfowitzes are no less dangerous than the Bin Ladens of this world."

Oh, the irony. He claims fanatics are dangerous then makes quite the fanatical statement equating OBL and Wolfowitz... oblivious to their own extremism.

I'm not going to watch the video because I don't have high-speed, but based on the fact that it's a BBC production, and based on the comments made so far, I have a fairly good idea of the message in this propaganda that will be lapped up by the Lib kool-aid fiends.

In the foggy mentality of the 21st century Leftist dolt, ideas of good and evil become arbitrary and meaningless, and they wallow in a pitiful state of moral limbo. In an effort to shield against the intellectual courage and effort it takes to make sound moral judgements they lash out at both good and evil as artificial constructs that don't exist in reality... which in effect, simply emboldens the evil and damages good. There is little doubt who stands to gain from the verbal manure spilled by the relativist Libs.

You can believe that the concepts and priciples emboddied by Western Civ are better than that of the jihadist culture. You can believe the opposite, and think the jihadist culture is better. Or, you can evade reality and "check-out" in this battle of ideas and claim neither are better or worse. This intellectual cop-out hurts Western Civ's efforts and simply drags out the violence and misery by not allowing us to deal with the problems properly and effectively. They might as well be on the terrorist's payroll, because the terrorists know they cannot defeat us from the outside... their efforts are aimed at the quivering relativists, because it will take people like the Libs to defeat us from the inside.

Of course if and when Western Civ prevails over this religious tyranny, the Libs will continue of their merry way, criticizing, damning, and lecturing those that have kept us alive and free, and will continue to live the good life. If for some reason Western Civ does not previal, the Lib's ignorant rants will be silenced with blood by those they allowed to gain control.

Let me propose a hypothetical question to you. Is it possible to be an extremist while fighting extremists? The very fact that someone is against bin Laden and friends does not mean they are doing the right thing. Life's a lot more interesting than that, there are often many sides to an issue, many of them being wrong.

This idea that as long as you claim to be fighting terrorists you can do no wrong is just stupid, and this idea that he who makes the most uber-patriot noise is "keeping us alive and free" is even stupider. I wouldn't trust people who have this attitude to protect a lemonade stand, because they are are unwilling to see the world as it really is. They just fall back into their world where everything is black and white, good vs evil, whatever, at the expense of actually solving the problem. They are dangerous, because reality doesn't change to suit our ideology.

 

[Merovingian]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Merovingian

Originally posted by: cwjerome
If Reality is objective and absolute, then some moral concepts may be better than others. Freedom may be better than slavery. Equality may be better than racism. I'll never ignore my human responsibility to always seek "the good"... advance, progress, and make the finest possible value-judgements that will best serve mankind.

Those out there who who claim all morality is the same are ethical chickensh*ts who'd pull this world into another Dark Ages because of their subconscious psychological cowardness. You say morals are not universal but I disagree... Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness apply to all people by their very nature (based on all philosophical grounds).

I will not be wracked into moral paralysis by timid, cowering rationalizations over "but we think we know better!!" Just because two groups claim to have the moral high ground doesn't mean you obliterate morality in a hand-wringing fit of exasperation. You you should count your blessings that some people are still willing to stand up to bad ideas and evil in defense of moral principles, despite your mind-numbing rejection of principles as such. If America was to accept your prescription, we'd be at the mercy of any international thug who decides to take advantage of our complete lack of resolve and certainty in what's RIGHT.

I posted an informative video specifically so I didn't have to deal with people who just like to argue based upon different sets of incomplete information. Then those people skip the video and start posting anyway? Perhaps it would be possible to find another thread or a broadband connection, I'm sure there are plenty of other threads that don't require a broadband connnection to construct a relevent arguement.

I'm in a discusion with another poster here... now address my points or be ignored. Thx

Create a new topic and I will show you what it's like to get dominated on a specific topic by a person with superior information.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Let me propose a hypothetical question to you. Is it possible to be an extremist while fighting extremists? The very fact that someone is against bin Laden and friends does not mean they are doing the right thing. Life's a lot more interesting than that, there are often many sides to an issue, many of them being wrong.

This idea that as long as you claim to be fighting terrorists you can do no wrong is just stupid, and this idea that he who makes the most uber-patriot noise is "keeping us alive and free" is even stupider. I wouldn't trust people who have this attitude to protect a lemonade stand, because they are are unwilling to see the world as it really is. They just fall back into their world where everything is black and white, good vs evil, whatever, at the expense of actually solving the problem. They are dangerous, because reality doesn't change to suit our ideology.

The answer to your hypothetical is obviously yes. You have yet to make a coherent case that my position is extreme... other than the fact I may be extreme in the defense of liberty.

Whoever claims that by fighting terrorists they can do no wrong is as bad as the terrorist apologists. Maybe you can point someone like that out?

I would argue that the person who cannot distinguish good and evil is just as dangerous as the evil itself... they are dangerous because they evade realities to suit their ideology.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Czar
I agree but thats also the case. We cant force our will on others. Take for example Iran, it is slowly moving towards a propper modern country, very slowly. There are ofcorse a few setbacks but slowly when the old generation passes changes come. If we force the change then it gives everyone a certain amount of national pride, good example there is with the axis of evil speech, everyone in iran condamned it. It is the nations own free will which is slowly changing because of outside influances, people look at how others have it and then want some of that.

You can say that its their culture is changing and culture is as we all know very intertwined with morals.

The difference between the left and right is because of all this not as big as many think. The main difference is the time people are ready to wait for results.

The problem is, Free Will doesn't mean "let people do whatever they want." Obviously we don't allow that... we believe it rights and wrongs and have police and courts to deal with such things. The same thing applies internationally...

You have to have a social mechanism that allows Free Will to be realized. Western cultures are much better at that than Middle Eastern societies. You should be lecturing them about Free Will my friend.

 

[Merovingian]

There is nothing to fear but fear itself pretty much somes up the conclusion of this film. It's interesting because none of the media outlets here are willing to broadcast the show.

 

[homercles337]

Im bumping this in the hopes that a neocon (aside from jerome's usual trolling) will actually WATCH the videos and attempt to refute. Im through chapter 2, gonna watch chapter 3 later (which must cover dumbya's admin), and its all very logical in how neocons work. Lies, scare, fear, myth, fake stories, fake data, etc. Watch this video.

 

[Merovingian]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Im bumping this in the hopes that a neocon (aside from jerome's usual trolling) will actually WATCH the videos and attempt to refute. Im through chapter 2, gonna watch chapter 3 later (which must cover dumbya's admin), and its all very logical in how neocons work. Lies, scare, fear, myth, fake stories, fake data, etc. Watch this video.

I got your PM and I agree, I'd like to hear a neoconservative pov on the video. I think that the video is somewhat sympathetic to the neoconservative movement as long as you accept that the projection of U.S. power to change "non-democratic" governments is right. First I think that all polititicans lie and mislead to get into office outside of maybe Carter and FDR. I'm not even sure how much reagan lied as much as he himself was mislead. Anyway, the neoconservatives seem to have accepted this to be case and simply beat everyone else at the game. I believe the idea is simple, if tricking the people to get them to do the right thing is required than it is just.

It's interesting the alignment around the neocon movement. Oil and corporate finance pay the way and religion provides the support of the masses who are willing to vote against their own economical best interest in order to project their social values on the population. Essentially the neocon movement had to make a few concessions to have the power/money required to meet their ends.

 

[homercles337]

I guess none of the neocons are willing to touch this due to its factual nature, eh? Facts != neocon ideologies.

 

[colonel]

I cant believe how BLIND we are, the film give you so much information with excellent sources. Neoconos are so greedy about power and domination. The radical islam is naked and guilty of taking power in Afganistan where the Reagan adm. left a vacumm of power creating monsters of violence..

 

[digiram]

Any of you guys ever watch the Chappelle show? Cwjerome reminds me of the "When keeping it real goes wrong" episode.....lol.

 

[Merovingian]

Yeah, I don't think that informed neocons would have any problem with this information. I think that most neocons would agree that while the deception is bad, it's nothing that doesn't go on with the left and just because the neocon movement has been more crafty, organized and more intelligent about the deception should not mean that it's anymore wrong than what goes on with the left. This of course requires that you agree that ends justify the means of the movement.

As far as this thread goes, it's going to take awhile for people to see the videos and then start posting. What will be refreshing is that the video has a large amount of useful information from a credible sourse what we can all discuss without the likes of people who just come here to flame and argue (generally those people tend be uninformed anyway). I hope that people on both the left and right will provide construtive comments as we explore the implictaions of the information provided. 🙂

 

[imported_Pedro69]

I am still downloading but saw the first 15 minutes, very interesting documentary. You should also read what the author Adam Curtis had to say when questioned by viewers: Link

 

[cwjerome]

Wow, look at all the Libs love-festing over this documentary by the BBC. Must be so objective and full of facts :roll:
(of course their opinions are equal to facts in their mind)
And since "neocons" aren't coming in here to refute the BS is *proof* of its substance :roll: :roll:
(such pitiful rationalizations to protect their obscene little worldview)

Let's take a look at what Adam Curtis says in the link posted by Pedro69:

"In the face of much more tangible threats in the past - like the IRA, the Soviet Union and even Nazi Germany - British governments did not encourage the people to behave like hedgehogs. Why roll up into a ball now in the face of what is a serious but in no way an overwhelming threat to our nation and our freedoms? The programmes did not say that there was no threat. What they argued was that although there is a serious threat of terrorism from some radical Islamists, the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organisation waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. The question the series tried to answer was why contemporary politicians and other elites, like the media, want you to feel frightened - to behave and feel like a hedgehog trapped on a motorway - when the reality and the scale of the threat is actually very different."

100% pure idiocy. Because he THINKS the threat is less tangible, it must not really be a threat. Obviously this guy is stuck in the 20th century, where unless there's someone holding a cocked gun to your forehead, a threat cannot be perceived. He cannot see beyond the simple concretes to think abstract and see the world today for what it is: different players, different weapons, different tactics, and different kinds of threats.

And who the hell is saying people should act like hedgehogs? If anyone, it's the Libbies who want to bow down and submit in a fetal position to the political demands of terrorists. Conservatives like me refuse to roll up into a ball... we need to stand strong and take out this global scourge without mercy.

He plays a buffoon's game of trying to differentiate between a "serious" threat and "overwhelming" threat. Again he fails to think clearly and portrays "neocons" of running around screaming bloody murder over being wiped out by terrorists. Nobody's saying we're going to be invaded with some overwhelming network of terrorists, but it is a big enough threat to our security in a myriad of ways. What's he looking for? Armies massing at our border? What's he waiting for? WMD attacks on a monthly basis? This is the typical horsesh*t the Left preaches... we should live with it, it's no big deal, and really it's our fault anyways. F*ck that.

This was the kind of thinking pre 9/11 when it was seen as an inconvenience and it only grew in power. Now they still insist it's not a serious threat. Well it is a serious threat now that only stands to get worse, and it's time to head it off. You man-hating Libs won't be satisfied until Nukes are detonated within our cities. Will it be a serious threat then? Or will you just blame America for pissing off fanatical scum and say we deserved it?

Basically he builds a strawman to argue by saying the evil, powerhungry neocons have built this enemy up to advance their own agenda, when all that's happening is some people -thank god- actually have a clue and seek to address the threat properly. Actually, all he's doing is taking the position of your typical Leftist Shmuck and advocating minimalizing, appeasing, and emboldening the enemy by not wanting to challenge it straight on. This is why Americans will not allow the Libs to gain control of our national security... we're not yet willing to roll over and play dead to a bunch of religious facists.

In the end, Curtis plays the Leftwing game quite well... building a house of cards case against those "fearmongering" neocons, while dispensing his own Liberal brand of fear himself. Instead of building a fake argument because they hate the way America is dealing with terrorism, the moron should have made a documentary on himself and his mentally broken followers who can't seem to come to grips with the threat we face. It's because of jackasses like him that terrorism succeeds.

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Wow, look at all the Libs love-festing over this documentary by the BBC. Must be so objective and full of facts :roll:
(of course their opinions are equal to facts in their mind)
And since "neocons" aren't coming in here to refute the BS is *proof* of its substance :roll: :roll:
(such pitiful rationalizations to protect their obscene little worldview)

Let's take a look at what Adam Curtis says in the link posted by Pedro69:

"In the face of much more tangible threats in the past - like the IRA, the Soviet Union and even Nazi Germany - British governments did not encourage the people to behave like hedgehogs. Why roll up into a ball now in the face of what is a serious but in no way an overwhelming threat to our nation and our freedoms? The programmes did not say that there was no threat. What they argued was that although there is a serious threat of terrorism from some radical Islamists, the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organisation waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. The question the series tried to answer was why contemporary politicians and other elites, like the media, want you to feel frightened - to behave and feel like a hedgehog trapped on a motorway - when the reality and the scale of the threat is actually very different."

100% pure idiocy. Because he THINKS the threat is less tangible, it must not really be a threat. Obviously this guy is stuck in the 20th century, where unless there's someone holding a cocked gun to your forehead, a threat cannot be perceived. He cannot see beyond the simple concretes to think abstract and see the world today for what it is: different players, different weapons, different tactics, and different kinds of threats.

And who the hell is saying people should act like hedgehogs? If anyone, it's the Libbies who want to bow down and submit in a fetal position to the political demands of terrorists. Conservatives like me refuse to roll up into a ball... we need to stand strong and take out this global scourge without mercy.

He plays a buffoon's game of trying to differentiate between a "serious" threat and "overwhelming" threat. Again he fails to think clearly and portrays "neocons" of running around screaming bloody murder over being wiped out by terrorists. Nobody's saying we're going to be invaded with some overwhelming network of terrorists, but it is a big enough threat to our security in a myriad of ways. What's he looking for? Armies massing at our border? What's he waiting for? WMD attacks on a monthly basis? This is the typical horsesh*t the Left preaches... we should live with it, it's no big deal, and really it's our fault anyways. F*ck that.

This was the kind of thinking pre 9/11 when it was seen as an inconvenience and it only grew in power. Now they still insist it's not a serious threat. Well it is a serious threat now that only stands to get worse, and it's time to head it off. You man-hating Libs won't be satisfied until Nukes are detonated within our cities. Will it be a serious threat then? Or will you just blame America for pissing off fanatical scum and say we deserved it?

Basically he builds a strawman to argue by saying the evil, powerhungry neocons have built this enemy up to advance their own agenda, when all that's happening is some people -thank god- actually have a clue and seek to address the threat properly. Actually, all he's doing is taking the position of your typical Leftist Shmuck and advocating minimalizing, appeasing, and emboldening the enemy by not wanting to challenge it straight on. This is why Americans will not allow the Libs to gain control of our national security... we're not yet willing to roll over and play dead to a bunch of religious facists.

In the end, Curtis plays the Leftwing game quite well... building a house of cards case against those "fearmongering" neocons, while dispensing his own Liberal brand of fear himself. Instead of building a fake argument because they hate the way America is dealing with terrorism, the moron should have made a documentary on himself and his mentally broken followers who can't seem to come to grips with the threat we face. It's because of jackasses like him that terrorism succeeds.

Did you see it?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Pedro69
Did you see it?

No I still haven''t, but what does that matter?

I'm commenting on things people have said AND things the filmmaker said in the link you provided.

Anyone (who's not a Bush-hating hack) can see through your worthless attempt to discredit my post.

The real question is, why can't any of you people gushing over this video actually address my words instead of evading them? Don't answer: we all know it's easier to say "Did you see it?" than to actually lay out a competant thought.

 

[Merovingian]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Wow, look at all the Libs love-festing over this documentary by the BBC. Must be so objective and full of facts :roll:
(of course their opinions are equal to facts in their mind)
And since "neocons" aren't coming in here to refute the BS is *proof* of its substance :roll: :roll:
(such pitiful rationalizations to protect their obscene little worldview)

Let's take a look at what Adam Curtis says in the link posted by Pedro69:

"In the face of much more tangible threats in the past - like the IRA, the Soviet Union and even Nazi Germany - British governments did not encourage the people to behave like hedgehogs. Why roll up into a ball now in the face of what is a serious but in no way an overwhelming threat to our nation and our freedoms? The programmes did not say that there was no threat. What they argued was that although there is a serious threat of terrorism from some radical Islamists, the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organisation waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. The question the series tried to answer was why contemporary politicians and other elites, like the media, want you to feel frightened - to behave and feel like a hedgehog trapped on a motorway - when the reality and the scale of the threat is actually very different."

100% pure idiocy. Because he THINKS the threat is less tangible, it must not really be a threat. Obviously this guy is stuck in the 20th century, where unless there's someone holding a cocked gun to your forehead, a threat cannot be perceived. He cannot see beyond the simple concretes to think abstract and see the world today for what it is: different players, different weapons, different tactics, and different kinds of threats.

And who the hell is saying people should act like hedgehogs? If anyone, it's the Libbies who want to bow down and submit in a fetal position to the political demands of terrorists. Conservatives like me refuse to roll up into a ball... we need to stand strong and take out this global scourge without mercy.

He plays a buffoon's game of trying to differentiate between a "serious" threat and "overwhelming" threat. Again he fails to think clearly and portrays "neocons" of running around screaming bloody murder over being wiped out by terrorists. Nobody's saying we're going to be invaded with some overwhelming network of terrorists, but it is a big enough threat to our security in a myriad of ways. What's he looking for? Armies massing at our border? What's he waiting for? WMD attacks on a monthly basis? This is the typical horsesh*t the Left preaches... we should live with it, it's no big deal, and really it's our fault anyways. F*ck that.

This was the kind of thinking pre 9/11 when it was seen as an inconvenience and it only grew in power. Now they still insist it's not a serious threat. Well it is a serious threat now that only stands to get worse, and it's time to head it off. You man-hating Libs won't be satisfied until Nukes are detonated within our cities. Will it be a serious threat then? Or will you just blame America for pissing off fanatical scum and say we deserved it?

Basically he builds a strawman to argue by saying the evil, powerhungry neocons have built this enemy up to advance their own agenda, when all that's happening is some people -thank god- actually have a clue and seek to address the threat properly. Actually, all he's doing is taking the position of your typical Leftist Shmuck and advocating minimalizing, appeasing, and emboldening the enemy by not wanting to challenge it straight on. This is why Americans will not allow the Libs to gain control of our national security... we're not yet willing to roll over and play dead to a bunch of religious facists.

In the end, Curtis plays the Leftwing game quite well... building a house of cards case against those "fearmongering" neocons, while dispensing his own Liberal brand of fear himself. Instead of building a fake argument because they hate the way America is dealing with terrorism, the moron should have made a documentary on himself and his mentally broken followers who can't seem to come to grips with the threat we face. It's because of jackasses like him that terrorism succeeds.

LOL! He still hasn't seen the video obviously. Damn, sucks not have broadband huh?

It's interesting, now that we actaully have information to quell the sheep that mindlessly fight the partisen fight how few trollers we have. Unfortunately we still have, LOL!, one broadbandless sheep who still needs attention, it's amazing how blind people can be when they try.

For everyone elses information, this is the best arguement for the neocon movement for educated, non religious fanatic persons I have seen to date. Don't be put off by liberals pretending to be conservatives or just uneducated conservatives.

I would advise not to pay attention to cwjerome and allow him to sit in the corner until he comes up with the bandwidth allowing him to see the film. Heh, ohh man. :laugh:

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Merovingian
LOL! He still hasn't seen the video obviously. Damn, sucks not have broadband huh?

It's interesting, now that we actaully have information to quell the sheep that mindlessly fight the partisen fight how few trollers we have. Unfortunately we still have, LOL!, one broadbandless sheep who still needs attention, it's amazing how blind people can be when they try.

For everyone elses information, this is the best arguement for the neocon movement for educated, non religious fanatic persons I have seen to date. Don't be put off by liberals pretending to be conservatives or just uneducated conservatives.

I would advise not to pay attention to cwjerome and allow him to sit in the corner until he comes up with the bandwidth allowing him to see the film. Heh, ohh man. :laugh:

Nice retort... lotta good ideas there :roll:

Look above your post... I'm not commenting on the video 😉

 

[Merovingian]

Team-B was just brilliant in the move to run out the soviets, the evidence for the existence is that there is no evidence, that is brilliant.

 

[martinez]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Wow, look at all the Libs love-festing over this documentary by the BBC. Must be so objective and full of facts :roll:
(of course their opinions are equal to facts in their mind)
And since "neocons" aren't coming in here to refute the BS is *proof* of its substance :roll: :roll:
(such pitiful rationalizations to protect their obscene little worldview)

Let's take a look at what Adam Curtis says in the link posted by Pedro69:

"In the face of much more tangible threats in the past - like the IRA, the Soviet Union and even Nazi Germany - British governments did not encourage the people to behave like hedgehogs. Why roll up into a ball now in the face of what is a serious but in no way an overwhelming threat to our nation and our freedoms? The programmes did not say that there was no threat. What they argued was that although there is a serious threat of terrorism from some radical Islamists, the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organisation waiting to strike our societies is an illusion. The question the series tried to answer was why contemporary politicians and other elites, like the media, want you to feel frightened - to behave and feel like a hedgehog trapped on a motorway - when the reality and the scale of the threat is actually very different."

100% pure idiocy. Because he THINKS the threat is less tangible, it must not really be a threat. Obviously this guy is stuck in the 20th century, where unless there's someone holding a cocked gun to your forehead, a threat cannot be perceived. He cannot see beyond the simple concretes to think abstract and see the world today for what it is: different players, different weapons, different tactics, and different kinds of threats.

And who the hell is saying people should act like hedgehogs? If anyone, it's the Libbies who want to bow down and submit in a fetal position to the political demands of terrorists. Conservatives like me refuse to roll up into a ball... we need to stand strong and take out this global scourge without mercy.

He plays a buffoon's game of trying to differentiate between a "serious" threat and "overwhelming" threat. Again he fails to think clearly and portrays "neocons" of running around screaming bloody murder over being wiped out by terrorists. Nobody's saying we're going to be invaded with some overwhelming network of terrorists, but it is a big enough threat to our security in a myriad of ways. What's he looking for? Armies massing at our border? What's he waiting for? WMD attacks on a monthly basis? This is the typical horsesh*t the Left preaches... we should live with it, it's no big deal, and really it's our fault anyways. F*ck that.

This was the kind of thinking pre 9/11 when it was seen as an inconvenience and it only grew in power. Now they still insist it's not a serious threat. Well it is a serious threat now that only stands to get worse, and it's time to head it off. You man-hating Libs won't be satisfied until Nukes are detonated within our cities. Will it be a serious threat then? Or will you just blame America for pissing off fanatical scum and say we deserved it?

Basically he builds a strawman to argue by saying the evil, powerhungry neocons have built this enemy up to advance their own agenda, when all that's happening is some people -thank god- actually have a clue and seek to address the threat properly. Actually, all he's doing is taking the position of your typical Leftist Shmuck and advocating minimalizing, appeasing, and emboldening the enemy by not wanting to challenge it straight on. This is why Americans will not allow the Libs to gain control of our national security... we're not yet willing to roll over and play dead to a bunch of religious facists.

In the end, Curtis plays the Leftwing game quite well... building a house of cards case against those "fearmongering" neocons, while dispensing his own Liberal brand of fear himself. Instead of building a fake argument because they hate the way America is dealing with terrorism, the moron should have made a documentary on himself and his mentally broken followers who can't seem to come to grips with the threat we face. It's because of jackasses like him that terrorism succeeds.

Your entire post screams of someone who has not only bought into the "fearmongering", but has lapped it up like a dog.

I think the documentary does a good job of showing how flawed the ideology of the Islamic extremists is. It makes no mention of it being "no big deal" and or "It being our fault anyway".

So wipe that spittle off your keyboard and monitor, have a beer and calm down there soldier.

 

[Merovingian]

Yeah, it's not really a left vs. right which is why people who actually watch the film arn't ranting about it. This stuff happens in politics on both sides and if the people were more informed neither would get away with it and they shouldn't.

 

[Zebo]

Worth watching, twice. Tallks about how all these fears from Soviet Russia to home terrorism are created, not based on any facts but fabrications of worst case scenarios and not even using evidence to prove thier case but fitting speculations on top of speculation. Good example was -- the CIA could'nt find any soviet advanced weapons (star wars, silent subs, etc) the neo-cons positied to Reagan they were so advanced and stealthy we could'nt even find them. Some other example were the so-called "5 sleeper" cells arrested heavily advertised by the press and railroaded by politicans and law enforcement only to all be dismissed once facts were demanded in a court of law. You did'nt hear about all thier dismissals, did you? Nope. There are several CIA heads/directors interviewed for this film and in general we have adopted a policy of listening to idealoges instead of the facts we pay these guys big bucks (it's classified but it's big) to find.

 

[novon]

Just started watching these, very eye - opening. These nutjobs in power are screwing it up for the rest of us.