FDA to ban trans fats

[sportage]

This is about as bad as when they killed off Joe Camel and my 8 year cried for days.
He switched to Marlboro's.
Whats next from our big commie government?
The damn bastards...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In my limited understanding, since those are not refined like trans fat they have drawbacks, most notably with smoking points.

The smoking point of lard is 375F, which is the upper limit of temps to fry chicken. If it smokes, it's time to turn the heat back.

Some good info on lard, which has no substitute for tamales. There's no fat like pig fat.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't think PTFE burns really at all to begin with. I've heated PTFE tubing in a flame before, it doesn't touch it. The C-F bond is much stronger than the C-O bond -> no combustion.

I'm not used to being precise with non technical people but "burning" is not literally what I mean. When heated to something under 700 F Teflon releases perflurooctanoic acid fumes, and they are known to be problematic.

Throckmorton posted that Teflon will be banned in 2014, but I believe he has his chemicals mixed up. PFOA is used in the Teflon manufacturing process and Dupont has agreed to substantially reduce the amount found in consumer products by 2015. If there is a Teflon ban I have not found it reported.

 

[Tom]

I'm not used to being precise with non technical people but "burning" is not literally what I mean. When heated to something under 700 F Teflon releases perflurooctanoic acid fumes, and they are known to be problematic.

Throckmorton posted that Teflon will be banned in 2014, but I believe he has his chemicals mixed up. PFOA is used in the Teflon manufacturing process and Dupont has agreed to substantially reduce the amount found in consumer products by 2015. If there is a Teflon ban I have not found it reported.

Thanks for the info. By using your post to search for "perflurooctanoic acid fumes", I came across this article, in case anyone wants more..

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...thome/teflon-and-perfluorooctanoic-acid--pfoa

 

[HumblePie]

The first paragraph isn't exactly technically right, but I suppose it gets about 50% of the point across. Your second paragraph is complete loony bullshit.

A gelatin is a SOLID food substance. By making oil (liquid state) fats into SOLIDS, it fits the definition of a gelatin now

As for the rest, as I said I pulled the info from various articles and they seemed plausible enough for me. Another article I read that was a bit more indepth says that saturated fats and trans fats actually react with the liver to force the liver to produce more LDL lipids.

 

[dank69]

The smoking point of lard is 375F, which is the upper limit of temps to fry chicken. If it smokes, it's time to turn the heat back.

Some good info on lard, which has no substitute for tamales. There's no fat like pig fat.

So what happens now? Everyone reformulates everything to use lard instead of trans fat, making everything more expensive and every bit as unhealthy as it was before.

 

[HumblePie]

So what happens now? Everyone reformulates everything to use lard instead of trans fat, making everything more expensive and every bit as unhealthy as it was before.

The industry used to use saturated fats because they were cheap and allowed for a decent storage life of food. Then studies started to show that saturated fat was bad. The industry came up with trans fat. It wasn't any better in terms of health issues caused by saturated fats, but trans fat is "unsaturated" but still causes the same problems as saturated fats. So the industry will hopefully this time use a healthy alternative that still provides a good shelf life. Right now the alternatives are more expensive, but as more of the alternatives are used the prices for those alternatives will go down as production on those alternatives increase.

 

[dank69]

The industry used to use saturated fats because they were cheap and allowed for a decent storage life of food. Then studies started to show that saturated fat was bad. The industry came up with trans fat. It wasn't any better in terms of health issues caused by saturated fats, but trans fat is "unsaturated" but still causes the same problems as saturated fats. So the industry will hopefully this time use a healthy alternative that still provides a good shelf life. Right now the alternatives are more expensive, but as more of the alternatives are used the prices for those alternatives will go down as production on those alternatives increase.

What alternatives? You have oils, solid fats, and oils made into solid fats (trans fats). What else is there? I think the wide transition to trans fat was because it was cheaper and more reliable/consistent than natural fats, no?

 

[ivwshane]

What alternatives? You have oils, solid fats, and oils made into solid fats (trans fats). What else is there? I think the wide transition to trans fat was because it was cheaper and more reliable/consistent than natural fats, no?

The trans fats that are really bad for you are the ones that are chemically made, ie partially hydrogenated oils.

Like anything moderation is the key, however, with partially hydrogenated oils, they are bad no matter what the dosage is.

 

[dank69]

The trans fats that are really bad for you are the ones that are chemically made, ie partially hydrogenated oils.

Like anything moderation is the key, however, with partially hydrogenated oils, they are bad no matter what the dosage is.

I thought all trans fats were hydrogenated oils.

 

[shira]

Why is it that any move by the government to make changes that will reduce the cost of health care in America is slammed by the right as being against the free market?

As far as I'm concerned, anything the government can do to induce people to lead healthier lives, and thus save a ton of money for taxpayers, just has to be a good thing for all of us.

 

[dank69]

Why is it that any move by the government to make changes that will reduce the cost of health care in America is slammed by the right as being against the free market?

As far as I'm concerned, anything the government can do to induce/encourage (not "force") people to lead healthier lives, and thus save a ton of money for taxpayers, just has to be a good thing for all of us.

This is one of the few places I break from liberals. I don't think the government should be used to protect people from their own stupidity. Education is good. Protecting people from the consequences of rejecting education? Not a fan.

 

[BoberFett]

Why is it that any move by the government to make changes that will reduce the cost of health care in America is slammed by the right as being against the free market?

Because the right doesn't think the taxpayer should be paying for healthcare to begin with? The answer to saving the taxpayer from high health care costs is by making people pay the costs for their own choices. Want to eat a bad diet? Great, go for it, but you'll pay for it. It already happens to smokers, why not increased costs for every action you can take? Into extreme sports? Higher rates. Ride a motorcycle? Higher rates. Overweight? Higher rates.

As far as I'm concerned, anything the government can do to induce people to lead healthier lives, and thus save a ton of money for taxpayers, just has to be a good thing for all of us.

The ultimate in safety would be robotic overlords keeping humans safe and sound, semi-conscious in bubbles, with the required nutrients being fed intravenously. Do you think that should be the goal?

 

[BoberFett]

This is one of the few places I break from liberals. I don't think the government should be used to protect people from their own stupidity. Education is good. Protecting people from the consequences of rejecting education? Not a fan.

Wow, you and I actually agree on something...

 

[ElFenix]

I thought all trans fats were hydrogenated oils.

if they were fuly hydrogenated they'd be saturated fats. trans fats still have a space left for a hydrogen, which lets the fat molecule bend.

 

[ivwshane]

I thought all trans fats were hydrogenated oils.

Nope. There are trans fats that occur naturally.


Oops, I read his question wrong.

 

[ElFenix]

The industry used to use saturated fats because they were cheap and allowed for a decent storage life of food. Then studies started to show that saturated fat was bad. The industry came up with trans fat. It wasn't any better in terms of health issues caused by saturated fats, but trans fat is "unsaturated" but still causes the same problems as saturated fats. So the industry will hopefully this time use a healthy alternative that still provides a good shelf life. Right now the alternatives are more expensive, but as more of the alternatives are used the prices for those alternatives will go down as production on those alternatives increase.

artificial trans fats were invented nearly 100 years ago as a cheaper substitute to fully saturated animal fats.


edit: from the tgings i've read, trans fats are actually worse for you than saturated fats bt quite a margin

 

[shira]

This is one of the few places I break from liberals. I don't think the government should be used to protect people from their own stupidity. Education is good. Protecting people from the consequences of rejecting education? Not a fan.

People can continue to commit suicide by poor health choices if they want to. But I want them to have to work a little to achieve their self-destructiveness.

I'm being totally selfish here: Why should I, as a taxpayer and financially-responsible person, be forced to subsidize - in the form of higher health-care premiums and income taxes - the bad choices made by these people?

 

[shira]

Because the right doesn't think the taxpayer should be paying for healthcare to begin with? The answer to saving the taxpayer from high health care costs is by making people pay the costs for their own choices. Want to eat a bad diet? Great, go for it, but you'll pay for it. It already happens to smokers, why not increased costs for every action you can take? Into extreme sports? Higher rates. Ride a motorcycle? Higher rates. Overweight? Higher rates.

The ultimate in safety would be robotic overlords keeping humans safe and sound, semi-conscious in bubbles, with the required nutrients being fed intravenously. Do you think that should be the goal?

Which just highlights the difference in the intelligence of the left and the right. The left understands that our society will continue to take care of those who can't afford their own health care. The right ignores that reality and pretends that we live in their preferred "pay or die" society.

 

[Darwin333]

The FDA shouldn't be involved with this. It should be up to the market and not them if trans fats are banned.

You need to include a "why" in order to make an argument that is even remotely serious.

What you just said is basically the same as "the color red should really be called yellow".

 

[Darwin333]

People can continue to commit suicide by poor health choices if they want to. But I want them to have to work a little to achieve their self-destructiveness.

I'm being totally selfish here: Why should I, as a taxpayer and financially-responsible person, be forced to subsidize - in the form of higher health-care premiums and income taxes - the bad choices made by these people?

Oooh, political compromise!!!

If I have my own private healthcare, non-subsidized and I report to my insurer my lifestyle, can I achieve my own self destructiveness with as little work as possible?

 

[BoberFett]

Which just highlights the difference in the intelligence of the left and the right. The left understands that our society will continue to take care of those who can't afford their own health care. The right ignores that reality and pretends that we live in their preferred "pay or die" society.

Go fuck yourself you worthless twat.

Pretentious assholes like you will keep me from ever voting Democrat. I'd rather see the country in ruins at the hands of Republicans than reward a bunch of smug assholes that sit around and pat themselves on the back.

 

[OverVolt]

All you have to do is look at the structure to realize trans fats are the same as or worse than saturated fats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat#Chemistry

 

[Vaux]

People can continue to commit suicide by poor health choices if they want to. But I want them to have to work a little to achieve their self-destructiveness.

I'm being totally selfish here: Why should I, as a taxpayer and financially-responsible person, be forced to subsidize - in the form of higher health-care premiums and income taxes - the bad choices made by these people?

You shouldn't have to. The problem there is how health care works, and should not be solved by attempting to control the choices people make.

 

[Howard]

His point, that you are oblivious to, is that there's no reason to maximize the longevity of the cardiovascular system beyond that of the neurologic system.

Its a morbid, but fair point.

And banning trans fats will do this?