FBI's Stance on Knock-Down Power

[edro]

FBI Academy's Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
Link to PDF

The often referred to "knock-down power" implies the ability of a bullet to move its target. This is nothing more than the momentum of the bullet...

Goddard amply proves the fallacy of "knock-down power" by calculating the heights and weights from which a one pound and ten pounds weight must be dropped to equal the momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles...

9mm... one pound weight must be dropped from a height of 5.96 ft
.45ACP... one pound weight must be dropped from a height of 11.4 ft

9mm... ten pound weight must be dropped from a height of 0.72 inches
.45ACP... ten pound weight must be dropped from a height of 1.37 inches

A bullet simply cannot knock a man down...
The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration.

It's a good short read on pistol ballistics and stopping power.
It is very brief and does not have any specifics load or brand.

Successful hits to the mid section are often not felt in high stress situations, especially if the assailant is under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

He says that the only way to stop a persistent person is from blood loss or stopped central nervous system (brain or spinal cord).

The FBI has the same stance as all other law enforcement... shoot to kill.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Not to be an ass, but the FBI released that almost 20 years ago...

They did a lot more testing after the 86 Miami shootout and were undergunned. Severely.

They developed the 10mm, but after being issued found it to be too stout for many agents and then came to the .40 Short & Wimpy. I mean Smith & Wesson.

The 10mm is much like a Star Trek phaser. Vaporizes targets on contact

Most folks don't know it, but the 10mm is actually the cause of global warming, that's how bad ass it is.

 

[zig3695]

and your point is? they are protecting us, they cannot afford to get shot themselves... of course they are told 'shoot to kill' that's every cop on every street corner. they dont fuck around in the chicago area, you make a threat to a cop's life and your life will be erased.

 

[overst33r]

what if you use guns like rambo?

 

[FoBoT]

yeah, the problem is the bullet ruptures arteries, veins, nerves and tissues that aren't supposed to leak your fluids out

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
yeah, the problem is the bullet ruptures arteries, veins, nerves and tissues that aren't supposed to leak your fluids out

Yup, drown from a lung shot, die from the poisons from the liver if that's hit, etc

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Not to be an ass, but the FBI released that almost 20 years ago...

They did a lot more testing after the 86 Miami shootout and were undergunned. Severely.

They developed the 10mm, but after being issued found it to be too stout for many agents and then came to the .40 Short & Wimpy. I mean Smith & Wesson.

The 10mm is much like a Star Trek phaser. Vaporizes targets on contact

Most folks don't know it, but the 10mm is actually the cause of global warming, that's how bad ass it is.

Yeah, it is a little dated.

He says numerous times that a handgun is the bare minimum you must carry.
He said it is only used in emergency situations.
If the officer knows the assailant is armed, the officer should be prepared with a long gun.

Originally posted by: zig3695
and your point is? they are protecting us, they cannot afford to get shot themselves... of course they are told 'shoot to kill' that's every cop on every street corner. they dont fuck around in the chicago area, you make a threat to a cop's life and your life will be erased.

I totally agree that "shoot to kill" should be used.

I just thought the article was a good quick overview of stopping power.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Not to be an ass, but the FBI released that almost 20 years ago...

They did a lot more testing after the 86 Miami shootout and were undergunned. Severely.

They developed the 10mm, but after being issued found it to be too stout for many agents and then came to the .40 Short & Wimpy. I mean Smith & Wesson.

The 10mm is much like a Star Trek phaser. Vaporizes targets on contact

Most folks don't know it, but the 10mm is actually the cause of global warming, that's how bad ass it is.

.40 S&W (Short & Wimpy-:laugh: I like that) is better than 9mm by a long shot though (no pun intended). Still, I don't actually own a gun chambered in .40 S&W. I own 2 .45 ACP handguns, a .44 Magnum, a .32 ACP and a 9mm (I used to have a .357 Magnum and a couple .38 Specials and even a .45 Long Colt but I sold them years ago).

I'd like to pick up a 10mm actually...maybe one based on a 1911 or perhaps a Sig. I might have to make a trip to Turners today.

 

[Mr Pickles]

I heard that going into shock would make someone stop. I also think I read somewhere that if you shoot somebody, they might feel pain. That might stop people too.

 

[OS]

do 12 gauge 3" slugs have knockdown power?

 

[Q]

They should equip the Feds with Desert Eagles

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: MrLee
I heard that going into shock would make someone stop. I also think I read somewhere that if you shoot somebody, they might feel pain. That might stop people too.

He did mention that many people, when shot and know they were shot, will go into a panic shock, based on preconceived notions about what it means to get shot.

 

[zig3695]

Originally posted by: edro


I just thought the article was a good quick overview of stopping power.

sorry man, i wasnt payin close enough attention