FBIFail: No evidence of bomb-making by terror suspect

jpeyton

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By IVAN MORENO and P. SOLOMON BANDA

DENVER ? Claims that an Afghan immigrant was on the verge of unleashing a terrorist attack on New York City on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks are missing a key element: explosives or the chemicals allegedly used to make them, the man's attorney said.

FBI agents have yet to find those elements and connect them to Najibullah Zazi, charged with conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction in a plot authorities say was aimed at commuter trains, attorney Arthur Folsom told a federal judge in Denver Friday.


U.S. Magistrate Judge Craig Shaffer ultimately ordered Zazi's transfer to New York, and Zazi was taken there by federal marshals.

"No traces of any kind of chemical was found in his vehicle," Folsom said of an FBI search of Zazi's car.

A federal prosecutor argued that Zazi was planning an attack to coincide with the 9/11 anniversary.

"The evidence suggests a chilling, disturbing sequence of events showing the defendant was intent on making a bomb and being in New York on 9/11, for purposes of perhaps using such items," prosecutor Tim Neff told Shaffer.

Zazi was stopped by police on Sept. 10 as he entered New York, and he dropped his plans for an attack once he realized that law enforcement was on to him, prosecutors allege.

Prosecutors said Zazi received explosives training from al-Qaida in Pakistan and returned to the U.S. bent on building a bomb.

Over the summer, he and three associates went from one beauty-supply store to another in a Denver suburb buying chemicals to make explosives like those that killed dozens of people in transit bombings in London and Madrid, investigators said.

At least three and possibly more of his accomplices remain at large, and investigators have fanned out across New York in pursuit of suspects. Authorities also issued a flurry of terrorism warnings for sports complexes, hotels and transit systems.

A law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation said associates of Zazi visited Colorado to help him buy the chemicals using stolen credit cards before returning to New York.

Another law enforcement official said that authorities had been especially worried about Zazi's Sept. 10 visit to the city because it coincided with a visit by President Barack Obama. Police considered arresting him right away. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation continues.

Police have been especially active in the neighborhood in Queens where Zazi visited during his New York trip, staying at an apartment with a group of cab drivers and food cart operators he knows.

Folsom said prosecutors lack direct evidence that Zazi was involved in bomb-making, finding none of those materials in Zazi's car, his Aurora, Colo., apartment or apartments Zazi visited in New York. FBI agents said they found Zazi's fingerprints on a scale and batteries during a search in Queens, but Folsom said those items have no connection to the alleged plot.

"I think they were hoping that people would just jump to conclusions," Folsom said in an interview with The Associated Press.


Zazi ran a coffee cart in Manhattan before moving to Denver this year and getting a job as an airport shuttle driver.

FBI raids beginning Sept. 14 rattled a quiet, predominantly Asian neighborhood in Queens. Muslim men said dozens of FBI agents ransacked their homes and questioned them for hours, sometimes taking DNA samples and prints from their shoes.

The FBI has also been visiting beauty shops and home-improvement stores in Colorado and New York for details about the alleged bomb-making purchases.

Court papers say that during the summer, Zazi and three unidentified associates bought "unusually large quantities" of hydrogen peroxide and acetone ? a flammable solvent found in nail-polish remover ? from Denver-area beauty supply stores. The products had names such as Ion Sensitive Scalp Developer and Ms. K Liquid 40 Volume.

Zazi also searched the Web site of a Queens home-improvement store for another ingredient needed to make a compound called TATP (triacetone triperoxide), the explosives used by shoe bomber Richard Reid and the terrorists who carried out the London bombings that killed more than 50 people, according to court papers.

Zazi intensified his bomb-making experiments this month, cooking up substances in a Colorado hotel suite he rented on Sept. 6-7 before driving 1,600 miles to New York over the course of about two days. He became aware that law enforcement was onto him when he was stopped entering the city on Sept. 10, causing the plot to unravel.

Neff said Zazi "was in the throes of making a bomb and attempting to perfect his formulation" and seeking information on how to use flour to make the explosive suitable for transporting.

"He was asking for information on flour and how to get the contents right," Neff said in court.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority ? which runs New York City's subway system, buses and commuter rails ? declined to comment on the revelation of a Sept. 11-timed plot. It reissued a statement from earlier in the week that it has boosted its police presence at "key commuter rail locations" since the terror threat became public.

Federal agents and police officers in New York visited up to 200 locations a day in the area during the probe, including beauty-supply stores, extended-stay hotels that have rooms with kitchens, hardware stores, truck rental agencies and storage facilities.

Zazi was scheduled to appear in federal court Tuesday in Brooklyn.

A government request to deny bail laid out a chronology of the alleged scheme, which prosecutors said had been in the works for more than a year.

On Sept. 6 and 7, Zazi checked into a suite at a Colorado hotel with a kitchen and a stove, government papers say, and tried to contact an unidentified associate "seeking to correct mixtures of ingredients to make explosives."

"Zazi repeatedly emphasized in the communications that he needed the answers right away," the papers said, adding that each communication was "more urgent than the last."

Beauty supply store employees in New York and the Denver suburbs said authorities had been asking whether anyone had come in buying a lot of hydrogen peroxide or acetone.

At Beauty Supply Warehouse in suburban Denver, Paul Phillips said a co-worker told investigators he had sold chemicals to Zazi. Company President Karan Hoss said the firm turned over security video of a man matching Zazi's description to the FBI. A check of sales found that someone bought a dozen 32-ounce bottles of a hydrogen peroxide product in July. More was purchased in late August, Hoss said.
The FBI said this guy was buying large quantities of bomb-making materials and cooking up explosives in his apartment. I don't know about you guys, but I find it odd that the FBI can't find a single piece of direct evidence (no materials, no explosives, no residue) to link the suspect to the allegations.

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This thread has been derailed and is locked due to thes ame previously rehash of views

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Common Courtesy
 

woodie1

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Mar 7, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Text

By IVAN MORENO and P. SOLOMON BANDA

DENVER ? Claims that an Afghan immigrant was on the verge of unleashing a terrorist attack on New York City on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks are missing a key element: explosives or the chemicals allegedly used to make them, the man's attorney said.

FBI agents have yet to find those elements and connect them to Najibullah Zazi, charged with conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction in a plot authorities say was aimed at commuter trains, attorney Arthur Folsom told a federal judge in Denver Friday.


U.S. Magistrate Judge Craig Shaffer ultimately ordered Zazi's transfer to New York, and Zazi was taken there by federal marshals.

"No traces of any kind of chemical was found in his vehicle," Folsom said of an FBI search of Zazi's car.

A federal prosecutor argued that Zazi was planning an attack to coincide with the 9/11 anniversary.

"The evidence suggests a chilling, disturbing sequence of events showing the defendant was intent on making a bomb and being in New York on 9/11, for purposes of perhaps using such items," prosecutor Tim Neff told Shaffer.

Zazi was stopped by police on Sept. 10 as he entered New York, and he dropped his plans for an attack once he realized that law enforcement was on to him, prosecutors allege.

Prosecutors said Zazi received explosives training from al-Qaida in Pakistan and returned to the U.S. bent on building a bomb.

Over the summer, he and three associates went from one beauty-supply store to another in a Denver suburb buying chemicals to make explosives like those that killed dozens of people in transit bombings in London and Madrid, investigators said.

At least three and possibly more of his accomplices remain at large, and investigators have fanned out across New York in pursuit of suspects. Authorities also issued a flurry of terrorism warnings for sports complexes, hotels and transit systems.

A law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation said associates of Zazi visited Colorado to help him buy the chemicals using stolen credit cards before returning to New York.

Another law enforcement official said that authorities had been especially worried about Zazi's Sept. 10 visit to the city because it coincided with a visit by President Barack Obama. Police considered arresting him right away. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation continues.

Police have been especially active in the neighborhood in Queens where Zazi visited during his New York trip, staying at an apartment with a group of cab drivers and food cart operators he knows.

Folsom said prosecutors lack direct evidence that Zazi was involved in bomb-making, finding none of those materials in Zazi's car, his Aurora, Colo., apartment or apartments Zazi visited in New York. FBI agents said they found Zazi's fingerprints on a scale and batteries during a search in Queens, but Folsom said those items have no connection to the alleged plot.

"I think they were hoping that people would just jump to conclusions," Folsom said in an interview with The Associated Press.


Zazi ran a coffee cart in Manhattan before moving to Denver this year and getting a job as an airport shuttle driver.

FBI raids beginning Sept. 14 rattled a quiet, predominantly Asian neighborhood in Queens. Muslim men said dozens of FBI agents ransacked their homes and questioned them for hours, sometimes taking DNA samples and prints from their shoes.

The FBI has also been visiting beauty shops and home-improvement stores in Colorado and New York for details about the alleged bomb-making purchases.

Court papers say that during the summer, Zazi and three unidentified associates bought "unusually large quantities" of hydrogen peroxide and acetone ? a flammable solvent found in nail-polish remover ? from Denver-area beauty supply stores. The products had names such as Ion Sensitive Scalp Developer and Ms. K Liquid 40 Volume.

Zazi also searched the Web site of a Queens home-improvement store for another ingredient needed to make a compound called TATP (triacetone triperoxide), the explosives used by shoe bomber Richard Reid and the terrorists who carried out the London bombings that killed more than 50 people, according to court papers.

Zazi intensified his bomb-making experiments this month, cooking up substances in a Colorado hotel suite he rented on Sept. 6-7 before driving 1,600 miles to New York over the course of about two days. He became aware that law enforcement was onto him when he was stopped entering the city on Sept. 10, causing the plot to unravel.

Neff said Zazi "was in the throes of making a bomb and attempting to perfect his formulation" and seeking information on how to use flour to make the explosive suitable for transporting.

"He was asking for information on flour and how to get the contents right," Neff said in court.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority ? which runs New York City's subway system, buses and commuter rails ? declined to comment on the revelation of a Sept. 11-timed plot. It reissued a statement from earlier in the week that it has boosted its police presence at "key commuter rail locations" since the terror threat became public.

Federal agents and police officers in New York visited up to 200 locations a day in the area during the probe, including beauty-supply stores, extended-stay hotels that have rooms with kitchens, hardware stores, truck rental agencies and storage facilities.

Zazi was scheduled to appear in federal court Tuesday in Brooklyn.

A government request to deny bail laid out a chronology of the alleged scheme, which prosecutors said had been in the works for more than a year.

On Sept. 6 and 7, Zazi checked into a suite at a Colorado hotel with a kitchen and a stove, government papers say, and tried to contact an unidentified associate "seeking to correct mixtures of ingredients to make explosives."

"Zazi repeatedly emphasized in the communications that he needed the answers right away," the papers said, adding that each communication was "more urgent than the last."

Beauty supply store employees in New York and the Denver suburbs said authorities had been asking whether anyone had come in buying a lot of hydrogen peroxide or acetone.

At Beauty Supply Warehouse in suburban Denver, Paul Phillips said a co-worker told investigators he had sold chemicals to Zazi. Company President Karan Hoss said the firm turned over security video of a man matching Zazi's description to the FBI. A check of sales found that someone bought a dozen 32-ounce bottles of a hydrogen peroxide product in July. More was purchased in late August, Hoss said.
The FBI said this guy was buying large quantities of bomb-making materials and cooking up explosives in his apartment. I don't know about you guys, but I find it odd that the FBI can't find a single piece of direct evidence (no materials, no explosives, no residue) to link the suspect to the allegations.

Gotta save this....
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: woodie1
Gotta save this....
Save this one, too, while you're at it.

However, subsequent, intensive searches of at least 10 addresses linked to the suspected al-Qaida plot in northern Britain have so far failed to turn up any clear evidence of a terrorist conspiracy, despite the huge resources devoted.

Forty-eight hours after the arrests, sources close to the inquiry say no evidence has been found of bombs, bomb-making parts, precursor chemicals to make explosives, a bomb factory, weapons or ammunition.
But don't feel bad. We've started wars over less evidence.
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: alchemize
Say, who's responsible for those fellas at the FBI?
Obama. I hear he personally interviewed and hired everyone at the agency after his inauguration.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
Say, who's responsible for those fellas at the FBI?
Obama. I hear he personally interviewed and hired everyone at the agency after his inauguration.

So you don't think Obama is responsible for the successes or failures of the FBI, roughly around September 11, 2009?

(edit: which, by the way, I see this as a success)
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
Say, who's responsible for those fellas at the FBI?
Obama. I hear he personally interviewed and hired everyone at the agency after his inauguration.

So you don't think Obama is responsible for the successes or failures of the FBI, roughly around September 11, 2009?
Where did I say anything that would lead you to that conclusion?
 

LunarRay

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Mar 2, 2003
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I'd imagine that before the FBI would spend the amount of manpower indicated in the OP they'd have had at least a tid bit of suspicion.
They, no doubt, monitored his communications so he was on their 'list'. IF he really is the person who bought all that Hydrogen Peroxide (A few gallons) either he planned to shave or he had a particular use for it and not much other than what is alleged comes to mind. IF he's not the person then the FBI needs finding who that person is, I think.

In August of 2001, FBI had real leads on that crew who flew into the WTC. They had the 20th highjacker's laptop and other computer but couldn't get the FBI higher Ups to authorize the warrant to search the computers. I'm not sure what was on those computers but I'm glad they are being a bit more proactive now-a-days.

I think there is a balance between the rights of the people and the need to investigate terrorism potential before we have more of it here. In this case, I think there are more facts to come out as the 'case' proceeds and if not then they should fly him home and find that Peroxide. Well, they should find the Peroxide anyhow!
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: alchemize
Say, who's responsible for those fellas at the FBI?
Obama. I hear he personally interviewed and hired everyone at the agency after his inauguration.

So you don't think Obama is responsible for the successes or failures of the FBI, roughly around September 11, 2009?
Where did I say anything that would lead you to that conclusion?
I sure didn't hear you say anything to the contrary, in fact you insinuated he wasn't responsible by your silly statement.

 

woodie1

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According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.

According to the OP, this isn't terrorism anyhow. It's just Obama carrying forward another failed policy of Bush.
Sound familiar?
 

LunarRay

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Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.

I'm not sure I can gleam that from his comment but, I find it odd as well and it points to the plot as being larger than depicted. In my estimation, anyhow.
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.

No actually, he said nothing of the sort. Meanwhile you'd rather take the word of a terrorist's lawyer over the FBI. That's pretty sad, even for a hack like you.
 

Rockinacoustic

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Aug 19, 2006
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An attorney defending his client. Shocking!


This guy seems like a joke any-who: Link

WSJ: Spotlight Burning Bright and Hot on Terrorism Suspect?s Attorney

Folsom got off to an inauspicious start in his first court appearance on behalf of Zazi on Monday when the magistrate judge hearing the case questioned his standing to appear in federal court. Turned out, as Folsom rather sheepishly explained, he had neglected to update a Colorado Bar database ? but he assured the judge he was in good standing.

Then, on Friday, Folsom did his best to rebut the government?s position that Zazi should be detained without bail. Along the way, Folsom pulled out every argument he could muster ? even some that apparently puzzled the judge.

For instance, Folsom suggested that the government may have made too much of the alleged terrorist plot, because after all, Zazi was in New York on Sept. 11 of this year and ?nothing happened.? The government has said it has no evidence that the alleged plotters had picked out a particular time or date and the judge responded brusquely to Folsom: ?I don?t necessarily follow the logic of that argument,? he said.

Folsom also suggested that it was safe to release Zazi because the FBI would probably keep on monitoring him closely, and with that kind of surveillance, there was no chance he?d flee.

:laugh: @ the last paragraph
 

jpeyton

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Originally posted by: First
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.

No actually, he said nothing of the sort. Meanwhile you'd rather take the word of a terrorist's lawyer over the FBI. That's pretty sad, even for a hack like you.
I don't have to take anybody's word. There either is evidence, or there isn't. You either did find bomb making materials, or you didn't. There either was bomb-making residue, or there wasn't.

You act like this is the first time a "terror" suspect in the GWOT has been brought up on allegations with no evidence to back it.
 

LunarRay

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Mar 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.

According to the OP, this isn't terrorism anyhow. It's just Obama carrying forward another failed policy of Bush.
Sound familiar?

The other link the OP provided (the bit in Britain) indicates to me that there is really something big going on which needs this kind of precursor event to set up. The OP's feelings are irrelevant, in my opinion, to the facts developed that cannot be swept under the rug. Those chemicals the FBI investigation surfaced are facts. They need being tracked down. That widens the plot.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: First
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.

No actually, he said nothing of the sort. Meanwhile you'd rather take the word of a terrorist's lawyer over the FBI. That's pretty sad, even for a hack like you.
I don't have to take anybody's word. There either is evidence, or there isn't. You either did find bomb making materials, or you didn't. There either was bomb-making residue, or there wasn't.

You act like this is the first time a "terror" suspect in the GWOT has been brought up on allegations with no evidence to back it.

Well, regarding the Peroxide and other chemicals, I think you're saying that the store receipts are non existent and the video of his look alike is fabricated and the folks who sold the stuff at various places and times got it wrong?

It happened or it didn't. IF it happened regardless of who bought it, if they did, I'd be a bit worried about where it all is.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: First
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.

No actually, he said nothing of the sort. Meanwhile you'd rather take the word of a terrorist's lawyer over the FBI. That's pretty sad, even for a hack like you.
I don't have to take anybody's word. There either is evidence, or there isn't. You either did find bomb making materials, or you didn't. There either was bomb-making residue, or there wasn't.

You act like this is the first time a "terror" suspect in the GWOT has been brought up on allegations with no evidence to back it.

Right, thing is I'm just not partisan enough to suspect the FBI is wrong more often than not. You're partisan (and ignorant) enough to think federal agencies finding no evidence against terrorists happens most of the time, at least enough to post threads about it. It's pretty sad.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
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Originally posted by: jpeyton

The FBI said this guy was buying large quantities of bomb-making materials and cooking up explosives in his apartment. I don't know about you guys, but I find it odd that the FBI can't find a single piece of direct evidence (no materials, no explosives, no residue) to link the suspect to the allegations.

That is actually the scariest part. They haven't found the stuff he bought. It was confirmed he bought it but they can't find the stuff. Since it is all things you can get off any store shelf it makes it very hard to track.

Explosives and residue ? You do know what kind of bomb this was right ?
It takes 3 things, hydrogen peroxide - any beauty supply, Acetone - any hardware supply, Sulfuric Acid - hardware supply again. There is no processing to this type of bomb, mix the 3 and get the hell out of the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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Originally posted by: First
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.

No actually, he said nothing of the sort. Meanwhile you'd rather take the word of a terrorist's lawyer over the FBI. That's pretty sad, even for a hack like you.

To be fair, you don't know the guilt or innocence. He is only a suspect but your statement about his attorney implies you've convicted him. It might suggest you'd not look at any subsequent development with an open mind and see only that which points toward guilt and eliminate that which points to innocence. That is what OP has projected, it seems.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: alchemize

Say, who's responsible for those fellas at the FBI?

You mean, Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You? :Q ;)

Right! Well, if we eliminate the watchers we can get the cell phone numbers of all the gun toting NRA folks and have them sort out what ever our Peace Loving citizen needs are. :D

You remember the old saying "If you don't like the cops, when you've a need call a Hippie"



 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: First
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: woodie1
According to the op all trials should now be held by the media. Judges and juries are no longer needed.
According to you, the Federal Bureau of Imagination no longer needs to present evidence in court.

No actually, he said nothing of the sort. Meanwhile you'd rather take the word of a terrorist's lawyer over the FBI. That's pretty sad, even for a hack like you.

To be fair, you don't know the guilt or innocence. He is only a suspect but your statement about his attorney implies you've convicted him. It might suggest you'd not look at any subsequent development with an open mind and see only that which points toward guilt and eliminate that which points to innocence. That is what OP has projected, it seems.

He could very well be innocent. It's just that lawyers will always try to defend their clients in public, no matter their guilt or innocence. Meanwhile we know for a fact they have actual evidence of purchases of these chemicals and materials. It's not a stretch at all to arrest the guy.