FAT32 vs. NTFS

[dxpaap]

Just got a new ACER (not a highend system). The system came with a 160gb drive partitioned into 2 FAT32 80gb in size (actual there is another 16mb partition for something?).

The reason stated for using FAT32 is that the backup / restore untility only works on FAT32 (you'd think ACER could upgrade the utility for their current systems!).

Anyway, thinking of just formating and making one big NTFS drive. Does going to NTFS really buy me more speed and stability? Since I would lose my ACER backup/restore utility - it would be a trade-off.

any thoughts on which way to go?

thanks

Dave

 

[cleverhandle]

If the Acer utility is like anything else by Acer, it's crap anyway. And NTFS is definitely preferable for stability reasons to FAT32. So I'd go ahead and reformat it. Get a better backup utility while you're at it, preferably one that can dump your data to something external - the single disk "rescue partitions" really don't do anything but waste your space.

 

[Talcite]

Get NTFS, then use ghost to save the disc image after your reinstall. That way you'll have a perfect recovery CD plus you'll have NTFS.

 

[Evander]

a big draw for me about ntfs is the above 4GB file limit has been overcome. great if dealing with videos or ISOS of various kinds

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: Talcite
Get NTFS, then use ghost to save the disc image after your reinstall. That way you'll have a perfect recovery CD plus you'll have NTFS.

or use partimage instead of ghost

 

[ForumMaster]

NTFS is definently better. Security, speed, stabily and better use of your disk are just some of the reasons. Plus you overcome the 4GB file size limit of FAT32 which is necessary when downloading torrent ISO's of linux for example.

 

[dxpaap]

Ok - opinion is unanomous on NTFS vs FAT32

Next problem in going w/ NTFS:

Because ASER sucks in some ways (can't complain about the price - you get what you pay for) - meaning I didn't get an XP OS disk - so if I format the drive, I have no way to re-install the OS (already talked to CC which said buy a new OS and ACER support which will not respond to my emails).


I have one work-around based on some previous posts - wondering if it would work:

Found my current XP key (used Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder). A fourm discussion said the XP disc has no specific key, just uses some agoritum.

Since I have an XP disc froma Dell system purchased last year - could I install onto the ACER and use the ACER key. Should be legit, since I bought both OS.

Any thoughts on this?

thanks in advance

Dave

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: dxpaap
- so if I format the drive, I have no way to re-install the OS (already talked to CC which said buy a new OS and ACER support which will not respond to my emails).

Conversion to NTFS is done by XP - and it is a non-destructive format change. You should not need to reformat. If you use Partition Magic 8, you can go back and forth between FAT32 and NTFS without losing anything. XP is one way - FAT32 to NTFS.

 

[dxpaap]

Humm - that sounds do able - once converted to NTFS. Create backups with a 3rd party utility - that way I never need the XP disk.

There was mention of different utilities to do this - can anyone recommend a stable "for free" or low cost backup / restore uitility.

Or is it worth it to buy a good quality off the shelf product.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Converting to NTFS using XP does result in only 512byte clusters instead of the default 4KB clusters of NTFS. This can slow down access and overall performance since the filesystem is tracking 8 times as many clusters. I'm not sure if there are any free utilities for converting the filesystem.

 

[corkyg]

If you need small clusters, use P/M 8 or the Acrtonis equivalent. Bottom line - you needn't lose any data or programs or OS setup.

 

[dxpaap]

Thanks for discussion on cluster size to access speed - will keep that in mind. Looks like my best bet is to spring for Partition Magic. I hate to spend $40-50, for a utility that will only be used once or twice (seems there are some limitations to doing the MS command prompt NTFS covert).

I can get my hands on a pre-XP, copy of Partition Magic (4 or 5), but I'd be afraid to use it on an XP system (or would it matter?).

 

[Genx87]

If their backup utility doesnt work in NTFS chances are the built in backup of Windows is better anyways. Check Microsofts site, there is a command line you can use to convert a fat 32 drive into NTFS without having to reformat and reinstall.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Older versions of PartitionMagic don't work with XP's version of NTFS. I think 7 might have been the first version that worked.

Check around and make sure there aren't any free utilities for this. It seems like an obvious candidate for the Communists to make an open source utility to do the job. You're right it sucks monkey butt to pay 50 bucks or more for utilities that don't get used but rarely, but yet are SO handy to have when you do use them.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: dxpaap
Thanks for discussion on cluster size to access speed - will keep that in mind. Looks like my best bet is to spring for Partition Magic. I hate to spend $40-50, for a utility that will only be used once or twice (seems there are some limitations to doing the MS command prompt NTFS covert).

I can get my hands on a pre-XP, copy of Partition Magic (4 or 5), but I'd be afraid to use it on an XP system (or would it matter?).

READ.

I work for an Acer repair and seller shop, when we get a new PC in, we always make it NTFS.

What we run is just a batch script:

convert c: /fs:ntfs
convert d: /fs:ntfs

Works fine.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Works fine.

For suitably small values of "fine".

Seems kind of odd to be modifying new computers so that they in fact no longer are factory-state before selling them, and not even doing it in the most effective way.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore

Works fine.

For suitably small values of "fine".

Seems kind of odd to be modifying new computers so that they in fact no longer are factory-state before selling them, and not even doing it in the most effective way.

We are a company reseller, we buy directly from ACER, and we give our clients what they need to do buisness.

This has never given us any problems. The only thing that has done so, is the hardware.
And all hardware has problems.

 

[dxpaap]

Forsythe, do you convert the E: partition? (that small few mb partition), leave it or delete / merge it with C: or D:?

Also, as an ACER reseller, how do you address your customers backup / restore requirement (since the standard ACER B/R utility doesn't work on NTFS)?

thanks

Dave

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: dxpaap
Forsythe, do you convert the E: partition? (that small few mb partition), leave it or delete / merge it with C: or D:?

Also, as an ACER reseller, how do you address your customers backup / restore requirement (since the standard ACER B/R utility doesn't work on NTFS)?

thanks

Dave

Generally, every single of our users use RDP to connect to a server (maybe one of ours) and runs their programs of that one. Many advantages to this (daily backups, kept in bank boxes, guarantees with lost data, 100% support 24/7, general maintenence, they don't ahve to worry about a thinkg), and it works fine, we have no problem with load, as all they use is word and other specialized communication applications.

We have no standard for doing a backup on personal computers, however, ntbackup works just fine in most cases. And even though i'm not a big fan of microsoft, it's a usefull application. (They prolly didn't make it.)
Just type "ntbackup" in the run box. It has some stupid windows style wizard, just quit that.


Regarding the E: partition, i believe it's actually where they boot the system, mbr. If you press Alt+F10 while booting, you will be able to enter a restore utility. I believe the software lies there.
So keep it, it's only 16mb's after all

 

[WiseOldDude]

An application such a back up doesn't care what the file system is, that is up to the operating system to care about.

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
Converting to NTFS using XP does result in only 512byte clusters instead of the default 4KB clusters of NTFS. This can slow down access and overall performance since the filesystem is tracking 8 times as many clusters. I'm not sure if there are any free utilities for converting the filesystem.

I got a free XP upgrade with a laptop that came preinstalled with WinME, and as part of the upgrade I converted the file system over to NTFS. I don't know if it was because of the cluster sizes or just the fact that I did an upgrade from a DOS to NT based OS, but the laptop was super slow until I just went ahead and reformated and did a clean install.

 

[Nothinman]

Converting to NTFS using XP does result in only 512byte clusters instead of the default 4KB clusters of NTFS.

That's not true anymore, I can't remember when it changed (XP, SP1 or SP2) but convert gives you 4K sized clusters now.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Converting to NTFS using XP does result in only 512byte clusters instead of the default 4KB clusters of NTFS.

That's not true anymore, I can't remember when it changed (XP, SP1 or SP2) but convert gives you 4K sized clusters now.

It appears that in some cases it will still use 512B clusters. I'd seen a reference to that once before but completely forgot that it was possible for it to do 4K clusters now.

Microsoft's Knowledge Base has only one reference to the convert utility making 512B clusters, and only specifies that it applies to NT4. So I don't know if that means the 4K cluster capability was there since Win2k original version, or if they added it in a service pack and decided nobody needed to ever know about the issue again and deleted the KB articles, and they still ought to mention that it is still possible to get 512B clusters.

Aside from the performance of 8 times as many small clusters, there are also other issues with converted volumes. From the XP help file: "Volumes converted from FAT to NTFS lack some performance benefits compared to volumes initially formatted with NTFS. On converted volumes, the MFT might become fragmented. In addition, on converted boot volumes, NTFS permissions are not applied after the volume is converted."

 

[Nothinman]

From the XP help file: "Volumes converted from FAT to NTFS lack some performance benefits compared to volumes initially formatted with NTFS. On converted volumes, the MFT might become fragmented. In addition, on converted boot volumes, NTFS permissions are not applied after the volume is converted."

I would wager that MFT fragmentation has no real affect on performance anyway, the data stored there is so small that it's almost always randomly accessed anyway. And the only permissions applied to any fresh NTFS partiton are Administrator:Full, besides the system partition created during install of course. But chances are that if you're converting the system volume from FAT to NTFS you're already a local administrator and don't really care about the permissions on the volume.

 

[cleverhandle]

Alternative suggestion - if you have an i386 folder on your drive (and you probably do, since you didn't get a real OS disk), that contains all the original installation files from the CD. I've taken that folder (from an Acer in fact) and massaged it back into a bootable XP installation CD. I don't remember quite how I did it, since it was several years ago, but I think I heard that nLite can do something similar.