Fat tax in New York?

[mugs]

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/health/2263832/detail.html

I saw a more in-depth article in one of the New York papers today, but I couldn't find it online. Pretty funny (rough) quote from the article - "Junk food, video games, and television? That's all I do!"

I don't think this is all that bad an idea, given the much higher healthcare costs of obese people. And if the money is going to a program to reduce obesity, that's great... IF it does any good.

 

[Lucky]

yeah, and the cigarette settlement might have been good..if the money had gone to anti-smoking programs instead of general budget coffers.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
I don't think this is all that bad an idea

Which is (1) why a real democracy will never work and (2) why we're all thankful that you'll never be allowed to make this decision or any like it.
This is what is known as "selective taxation" - similar to those cigarette taxes. It's always very easy to raise another person's taxes, especially when you know that you're never going to have to pay. You give a whole new meaing to "taxation without representation" when you selectively raise the taxes on a minority voting bloc.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii
I don't think this is all that bad an idea

Which is (1) why a real democracy will never work and (2) why we're all thankful that you'll never be allowed to make this decision or any like it.
This is what is known as "selective taxation" - similar to those cigarette taxes. It's always very easy to raise another person's taxes, especially when you know that you're never going to have to pay. You give a whole new meaing to "taxation without representation" when you selectively raise the taxes on a minority voting bloc.

You think I don't eat junk food? You think junk food eaters are in the minority?

By your logic, gas taxes and toll roads are wrong as well. But gas taxes and tolls DO make sense - they tax people proportionally to how much they use roads. Roads are expensive to build, repair, and replace. Why make people who don't drive as much pay the same amount for the roads? Similarly, why should people who have lived responsibly pay as much as an obese person for a program aimed at helping the obese? If nothing else, we ought to have some disincentive to eat junk food, because on the average Americans are very overweight.

As for your asinine comments - aren't you being a bit presumptuous when you speak for everyone in this forum?

 

[Nitemare]

At times like this I am so glad I am not a New Porker

Tax on munchies, huge tax on cigarettes that it is pretty much illegal to smoke anywhere in the state anyways, and being known to coexist with a population stupid enough to elect Hillary....

 

[Rogue9]

Similarly, why should people who have lived responsibly pay as much as an obese person for a program aimed at helping the obese?

A better question is, why should people who live healthy lives have to pay for ANYONE else's health care?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Rogue9

Similarly, why should people who have lived responsibly pay as much as an obese person for a program aimed at helping the obese?

A better question is, why should people who live healthy lives have to pay for ANYONE else's health care?

Bingo.
And people who don't drive cars don't pay any gas taxes or road tolls at all.

And mugsywwiii, how did I presume to speak for anyone on this forum but myself? When I said "we," I wasn't talking about this forum, but taxpayers in general, who are tired of other people raising their taxes just because someone doesn't "think this is all that bad an idea." It is a bad idea, because just eating junk food from time-to-time does not necessarily make someone unhealthy. For example, I eat the occassional junk food (as a treat or indulgence), but at 6'2" and 180 lbs. I do not consider myself to be overweight.
This is just another step forward in the socialist agenda. Find a way to tax everything by casting the tax in an artificially favorable light that appeals to the stupid or short-sighted.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Rogue9

Similarly, why should people who have lived responsibly pay as much as an obese person for a program aimed at helping the obese?

A better question is, why should people who live healthy lives have to pay for ANYONE else's health care?

Bingo.
And people who don't drive cars don't pay any gas taxes or road tolls at all.

Yeah I know, but you were arguing that taxing specific groups (like drivers) is wrong. The only difference is that a car is something that most people can't easily do without.

And mugsywwiii, how did I presume to speak for anyone on this forum but myself? When I said "we," I wasn't talking about this forum, but taxpayers in general, who are tired of other people raising their taxes just because someone doesn't "think this is all that bad an idea." It is a bad idea, because just eating junk food from time-to-time does not necessarily make someone unhealthy. For example, I eat the occassional junk food (as a treat or indulgence), but at 6'2" and 180 lbs. I do not consider myself to be overweight.
This is just another step forward in the socialist agenda. Find a way to tax everything by casting the tax in an artificially favorable light that appeals to the stupid or short-sighted.

This isn't some massive tax, this is just a 1% tax on junk food. Consider the current sales tax in New Jersey:
Tax on a bottle of soda: 6%
vs
Tax on a bottle of milk: 0%

Tax on a candy bar: 6%
vs
Tax on a loaf of bread: 0%

Tax on a video game: 6%
vs
Tax on a pair of shoes: 0%

It's not about raising taxes to promote a "socialist agenda," it's about targetting taxes at non-necessities to compensate for expenses they create. The way I look at it is, the government has to generate a specific amount of revenue to meet their budget - whether they do it through income taxes, sales taxes, cigarette taxes, property taxes, whatever, they have to generate the same amount of revenue. So why not target the taxes at areas that create the costs? Like gas taxes going to pay for roads.

I'm not for big government and huge taxes though, I'd love to see government waste cut.

 

[Rogue9]

I think my problem with "fat taxes" and the like is proponents justify them by the fact that the public often ends up footing the bill for fat peoples' health problems. If you remove government spending from health care, the rationalization for fat taxes disappears.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

These are all sin taxes, they are just lowering the bar and what qualifies as sin. This is a bad, bad thing for everybody.

 

[Crimson]

Ok, think about this.. One of my grandfathers lived only until age 65.. he died of lung cancer from smoking... The other died at age 89, he died of "old age".. Any guesses as to who had more health care costs? The one had 24 more YEARS of life, and thus 24 more YEARS of health care expenses... pills for arthritis, liver problems, heart problems, etc.. Months of time in the hospital near the end.. The one who died at 65 spent about 30 days in the hospital before he died.. He rarely spent time at the Dr. before that..

Fact is, unhealthy people DIE sooner, thus incurr LESS healthcare expenses.. the argument is pure bull****..

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Rogue9
I think my problem with "fat taxes" and the like is proponents justify them by the fact that the public often ends up footing the bill for fat peoples' health problems. If you remove government spending from health care, the rationalization for fat taxes disappears.

Good point, but I think at very least low-cost health care ought to be available to the indigent. We can't just let them die. But the tax was meant to cover the cost of an obesity prevention program, not healthcare for obese people. I'm not sure what all would be involved with an obesity prevention program... commercials telling people to slim down? Signs outside McPlastics warning people that they may get fat if they eat there every day? I think there was a group of kids from New York who sued because McDonalds made them fat. Or their own irresponsibility made them fat.

 

[Rogue9]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: Rogue9
I think my problem with "fat taxes" and the like is proponents justify them by the fact that the public often ends up footing the bill for fat peoples' health problems. If you remove government spending from health care, the rationalization for fat taxes disappears.

Good point, but I think at very least low-cost health care ought to be available to the indigent. We can't just let them die. But the tax was meant to cover the cost of an obesity prevention program, not healthcare for obese people. I'm not sure what all would be involved with an obesity prevention program... commercials telling people to slim down? Signs outside McPlastics warning people that they may get fat if they eat there every day? I think there was a group of kids from New York who sued because McDonalds made them fat. Or their own irresponsibility made them fat.

Ah, I forgot about the whole "obesity prevention program" thing. Still seems pretty silly to me, because how many people aren't aware of what eating fatty foods does to you?

Also, health care IS available to everyone in this country. The difference between us and say, Canada, is that the hospitals here don't have to forgive your debt. They DO have to treat everyone who walks through the doors.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Rogue9

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: Rogue9
I think my problem with "fat taxes" and the like is proponents justify them by the fact that the public often ends up footing the bill for fat peoples' health problems. If you remove government spending from health care, the rationalization for fat taxes disappears.

Good point, but I think at very least low-cost health care ought to be available to the indigent. We can't just let them die. But the tax was meant to cover the cost of an obesity prevention program, not healthcare for obese people. I'm not sure what all would be involved with an obesity prevention program... commercials telling people to slim down? Signs outside McPlastics warning people that they may get fat if they eat there every day? I think there was a group of kids from New York who sued because McDonalds made them fat. Or their own irresponsibility made them fat.

Ah, I forgot about the whole "obesity prevention program" thing. Still seems pretty silly to me, because how many people aren't aware of what eating fatty foods does to you?

Also, health care IS available to everyone in this country. The difference between us and say, Canada, is that the hospitals here don't have to forgive your debt. They DO have to treat everyone who walks through the doors.

Yeah I realize they have to treat everyone (although I have heard of people being refused if they can't show proof of insurance... I guess they just get pointed to a free clinic or something). Aren't doctors obligated by the hippocractic oath to help any sick person who seeks care? But available and affordable are two different matters. A Jaguar is available to anyone who wants to buy one, but not affordable to most.