Fast Food locations closing down rather than pay employees more

[drebo]

Yeah but then I pay higher taxes to fund all kinds of government aid so that they can pay below market value. That does not sound free market capitalism.

It sounds like welfare for the rich, and I pay for it.

How can it be "below market value" when there are plenty of people who are willing to work for those wages? Seems to me that "market value" is right on point.

Again, minimum wage could be $1000/hr and these people would still be poor.

Your "argument" has nothing to do with anything, least of all logic.

 

[sandorski]

What the dude probably meant to say: I suck at running this Corporation, but need to keep my Job. Ahh sweet, they gonna raise the Minimum Wage. Quick, to the excuse mobile!!

People, especially those with increased disposable Income, are not going to stop going out to eat. Demand for Fast Food will remain high and for every restaurant that closes another will open to meet the demand.

 

[drebo]

Not a single thing you said was true:

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/community_education/teacher/calc/hist1913.cfm

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-REB-25097


FYI, the federal minimum wage was increased in July of 2009.

How expensive was a hamburger when minimum wage was first introduced? 1938.

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq5.html

A Hershey bar in 1937 was $0.05 for 1.5oz bar. Today? $0.99. 2000% the cost.

Has inflation been 2000% since 1938?

You can look at any item on that site and see increases in price ranging from 500% to 4500% for Oreos from 1936 to today.

At least looking at the sameples on that page, prices on average have increased significantly faster than inflation (which from a CPI perspective is about $16.80 now vs. $1 then.)

So, yes, I'd say that minimum wage had an impact on prices.

Also, a breif look at unemployment numbers shows that on average, unemployment is higher now than it was back then (discounting WW1, WW2, and the great depression.)

 

[HeXen]

Even if they charged a couple bucks or so more for a burger and fries to make up for a little higher wages, it's still cheaper than what most restaurants charge. People would still pay it cause where else are fat, lazy folks gonna go? Cook at home? lol, no too much effort. Get it to go from a steakhouse? No it takes too long, not salty enough and costs more, plus no drive through.

Even MCD's has been gradually raising prices if anyone noticed, might as well hike it up a couple of bucks and pay the employee's a little more, won't stop anyone from going nor has it ever.

 

[ivwshane]

How expensive was a hamburger when minimum wage was first introduced? 1938.

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq5.html

A Hershey bar in 1937 was $0.05 for 1.5oz bar. Today? $0.99. 2000% the cost.

Has inflation been 2000% since 1938?

You can look at any item on that site and see increases in price ranging from 500% to 4500% for Oreos from 1936 to today.

At least looking at the sameples on that page, prices on average have increased significantly faster than inflation (which from a CPI perspective is about $16.80 now vs. $1 then.)

So, yes, I'd say that minimum wage had an impact on prices.

Also, a breif look at unemployment numbers shows that on average, unemployment is higher now than it was back then (discounting WW1, WW2, and the great depression.)

I'm sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[berzerker60]

Scenario 1: Minimum wage goes to $2000/hr, huge problems occur.
Scenario 2: Minimum wage abolished, huge problems occur. (and did occur in actual historical reality, which is why it and other labor laws exist in the first place)

It's almost as if it's a balancing act, and blanket assumptions about raising the minimum wage necessarily being evil are childish and simple-minded!

 

[Jaskalas]

Scenario 1: Minimum wage goes to $2000/hr, huge problems occur.
Scenario 2: Minimum wage abolished, huge problems occur. (and did occur in actual historical reality, which is why it and other labor laws exist in the first place)

It's almost as if it's a balancing act, and blanket assumptions about raising the minimum wage necessarily being evil are childish and simple-minded!

Raise it to $2,000/hr, what huge problems would occur? As with ANY adjustment to min wage, prices will rise to balance it out.

You use an extreme number, but any number shuffles the economy.

 

[drebo]

I'm sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about.

And so what irrefutable proof do you have that the numbers in the link I provided are false?

They're historical and that website cites its sources.

Minimum wage caused prices to increase faster than inflation, even with respect to the CPI. That much is clear to everyone who isn't wearing white-guilt colored glasses.

 

[Engineer]

And so what irrefutable proof do you have that the numbers in the link I provided are false?

They're historical and that website cites its sources.

Minimum wage caused prices to increase faster than inflation, even with respect to the CPI. That much is clear to everyone who isn't wearing white-guilt colored glasses.

Hint: Want to know when inflation took off like a rocket? Look around the early 1970's or so. What happened during that time?

(hint: no more gold standard).

By the way, Hershey bars, Oreos, etc. are not made by minimum wage people.

 

[Darwin333]

so i say let them close, let these "job creator" franchise owners go belly up.... serves them right., should have treated your employees better instead of telling them "touqh shit, get on welfare!"

Do you really think they will be hurting all that much?

"We are unemployed but that fucker has to settle with his current yacht instead of the new one he wanted, we sure showed him!"

I find it rather funny that people like you see this as a "win". Hate to tell you, and it doesn't matter what political party you see fit to get on your knees for, but this isn't a win for the little guy.

 

[Darwin333]

Even if they charged a couple bucks or so more for a burger and fries to make up for a little higher wages, it's still cheaper than what most restaurants charge. People would still pay it cause where else are fat, lazy folks gonna go? Cook at home? lol, no too much effort. Get it to go from a steakhouse? No it takes too long, not salty enough and costs more, plus no drive through.

Even MCD's has been gradually raising prices if anyone noticed, might as well hike it up a couple of bucks and pay the employee's a little more, won't stop anyone from going nor has it ever.

I can currently call Outback steakhouse and order a really good burger and fries, pull up and park in the take out spot and have it brought out to my truck. As of today it costs a few dollars more than a similar meal from McD's or Burger King but it is much better and I have far more choices but the largest factor that used to differentiate the two, convenience, is now gone. Hell I'm actually far more likely to get what I actually ordered from Outback AND spend less time waiting for it.

Not a big fan of Applebees or a lot of the other chain restaurants but most offer the exact same "curbside" service.

 

[sportage]

Don't fool yourself.
Fast food is making plenty of loot.
All hamburger joints now serve that pink slime molded into a patty.
A bucket of chicken cost as much as dinner for two at a quality restaurant.
Yes, a wage of $10.10 is not only doable, but only fair.
They can afford it.
And after all, all those low waged disgruntled employees are the ones handling YOUR food.
Do you really want to trust your food to a disgruntled employee?

 

[Matt1970]

Don't fool yourself.
Fast food is making plenty of loot.
All hamburger joints now serve that pink slime molded into a patty.
A bucket of chicken cost as much as dinner for two at a quality restaurant.
Yes, a wage of $10.10 is not only doable, but only fair.
They can afford it.
And after all, all those low waged disgruntled employees are the ones handling YOUR food.
Do you really want to trust your food to a disgruntled employee?

Seeing as how you care so much for the poor fast food working stiffs, why don't you go start your own restaurant and pay your workers what you think is fair. I think you will find out what most of the fast food joint owners already know that raising the price of a burger $1 isn't going to hack it. If it was surely one of the tens of thousands of restaurant owners would have tried it already. And BTW, a bucket of chicken regularly goes on sale for $10. I don't know many quality restaurants you can get dinner for two at for that price.

 

[werepossum]

Scenario 1: Minimum wage goes to $2000/hr, huge problems occur.
Scenario 2: Minimum wage abolished, huge problems occur. (and did occur in actual historical reality, which is why it and other labor laws exist in the first place)

It's almost as if it's a balancing act, and blanket assumptions about raising the minimum wage necessarily being evil are childish and simple-minded!

Well said.

Raise it to $2,000/hr, what huge problems would occur? As with ANY adjustment to min wage, prices will rise to balance it out.

You use an extreme number, but any number shuffles the economy.

True, but his point still holds. An increase in minimum wage ripples through the economy; it makes some jobs infeasible and raises the cost of goods and services, but the extent of that varies wildly with existing economic conditions. Blanket statements about raising the minimum wage are of necessity wrong even if occasionally correct.

Seeing as how you care so much for the poor fast food working stiffs, why don't you go start your own restaurant and pay your workers what you think is fair. I think you will find out what most of the fast food joint owners already know that raising the price of a burger $1 isn't going to hack it. If it was surely one of the tens of thousands of restaurant owners would have tried it already. And BTW, a bucket of chicken regularly goes on sale for $10. I don't know many quality restaurants you can get dinner for two at for that price.

As soon as he figures out how to start it, pay himself, and pay his workers with other people's money, he certainly will do so.

 

[BoberFett]

Don't fool yourself.
Fast food is making plenty of loot.
All hamburger joints now serve that pink slime molded into a patty.
A bucket of chicken cost as much as dinner for two at a quality restaurant.
Yes, a wage of $10.10 is not only doable, but only fair.
They can afford it.
And after all, all those low waged disgruntled employees are the ones handling YOUR food.
Do you really want to trust your food to a disgruntled employee?

How much do you pay your employees? Oh right, you don't employ anyone. You're a loser.

 

[werepossum]

I can currently call Outback steakhouse and order a really good burger and fries, pull up and park in the take out spot and have it brought out to my truck. As of today it costs a few dollars more than a similar meal from McD's or Burger King but it is much better and I have far more choices but the largest factor that used to differentiate the two, convenience, is now gone. Hell I'm actually far more likely to get what I actually ordered from Outback AND spend less time waiting for it.

Not a big fan of Applebees or a lot of the other chain restaurants but most offer the exact same "curbside" service.

I'm going to have to try that one night.

 

[dmcowen674]

How much do you pay your employees? Oh right, you don't employ anyone. You're a loser.

How many employees do you have and what do you pay them?

 

[OutHouse]

Cigarette prices go up every year and people still buy.

but fewer and fewer every year. where will government make up for the lost sin tax?

 

[OutHouse]

A bucket of chicken cost as much as dinner for two at a quality restaurant.

that's the truth. the gas station near my house that is next to I-76 just put in a Chester's chicken franchise. while waiting inline to pay for gas i was eye balling the menu and a bucket of 15 pieces of chicken and a couple of sides was $48.00.... WTF umm no thank you.

 

[OutHouse]

By the way, Hershey bars, Oreos, etc. are not made by minimum wage people.
__________________

correct, they are made in Mexico and Singapore by workers making 10 bucks a day.

 

[Engineer]

correct, they are made in Mexico and Singapore by workers making 10 bucks a day.

Hershey has ONE factory in Mexico and that one has been there for 40 years:

http://www.thehersheycompany.com/about-hershey/manufacturing-network.aspx

Hershey's Manufacturing
Network and Factory Video Tour

More than a century ago, Milton Hershey broke ground in Hershey, Pennsylvania, for what was to become the world's largest chocolate factory. Today, Hershey's manufacturing network produces the world's best chocolate and confectionery products for consumers around the globe. Take a tour of the plants and see where some of the iconic brands are made.

Hershey, PA
Hershey, Pa., is where it all started more than 100 years ago, and it's still where the famous HERSHEY'S KISSES Chocolates, HERSHEY'S Milk Chocolate bars and HERSHEY'S Milk Chocolate with Almonds bars are made.

West Hershey, PA
Coming Soon!

REESE'S, Hershey, PA
Come inside the REESE'S factory in Hershey, Pa., and check out the world-famous REESE'S Peanut Butter Cups and KIT KAT Wafer Bars.

Lancaster, PA
The facility in Lancaster, Pa., produces 1 million miles of TWIZZLERS Twists each year!

Hazleton, PA
The Hazleton, Pa., facility produces many consumer favorites, including KIT KAT, HERSHEY'S EXTRA DARK and CADBURY bars.

Stuarts Draft, VA
The Virginia facility makes REESE'S WHIPPS, TAKE 5, REESE'S PIECES and all-time favorites MOUNDS and ALMOND JOY candies.

Robinson, IL
The Illinois plant produces many of the popular brands loved by consumers, including PAYDAY, HEATH, WHOPPERS and MILK DUDS candies.

Guadalajara, Mexico
Hershey has been producing high-quality chocolate, confectionery and beverages in Mexico for more than 40 years.

Most of the Oreos for the US are made in Richmond, VA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oreo

Much of current Oreo production is done at the Kraft/Nabisco factory in Richmond, Virginia.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Want more money and better standard of living? Get a better job.

Are these the jobs that grow on the magic jobs tree that I read about in "Free Market Fairy Tales"? Are you promoting a fairy-tale notion that everyone can have a solid middle or lower-middle class job if only everyone had the education, skills, and ability for it?

 

[MagickMan]

Don't fool yourself.
Fast food is making plenty of loot.
All hamburger joints now serve that pink slime molded into a patty.
A bucket of chicken cost as much as dinner for two at a quality restaurant.
Yes, a wage of $10.10 is not only doable, but only fair.
They can afford it.
And after all, all those low waged disgruntled employees are the ones handling YOUR food.
Do you really want to trust your food to a disgruntled employee?

If it were "doable" they'd do it, because they're in that to make money. It's illogical to close down if you can still make a decent profit.

 

[TheSlamma]

Are these the jobs that grow on the magic jobs tree that I read about in "Free Market Fairy Tales"? Are you promoting a fairy-tale notion that everyone can have a solid middle or lower-middle class job if only everyone had the education, skills, and ability for it?

How many other jobs have been replaced by machines that now no one cares about? When you see a farmer in a tractor do you drive by fist waving?

When you drink from an aluminum can do you feel guilty that it used to take dozens of people on a can line and now it's just a handful of people? Same with an automobile or any other assembly line item.

Honestly this is going to keep happening and drone jobs will always be the first to go. I don't like it either but we live in a capitalist society where no one votes with their wallets cause it's too easy to just point at CEO's and say it's 100% on them, but yet people can't seem to resist to run out and buy one of their products.

 

[Engineer]

How many other jobs have been replaced by machines that now no one cares about? When you see a farmer in a tractor do you drive by fist waving?

When you drink from an aluminum can do you feel guilty that it used to take dozens of people on a can line and now it's just a handful of people? Same with an automobile or any other assembly line item.

Honestly this is going to keep happening and drone jobs will always be the first to go. I don't like it either but we live in a capitalist society where no one votes with their wallets cause it's too easy to just point at CEO's and say it's 100% on them, but yet people can't seem to resist to run out and buy one of their products.

Many thousands of automation and machine building jobs were created to make and program and maintain these automated machines. I know that it's not the same number as the number lost but it's better than zero. Offshoring takes the entire plant and sends it out (in most cases) eliminating production workers, engineers, managers, janitors, etc. Not only that, but the suppliers are effected as well.

I would rather have an automated plant in the US employing 25% of what it used to than to have 100% of the plant offshored (not to mention that many of those jobs are better paying because of the skill set required to keep the automation working).

Of course, there's nothing to say that the machines have to be built here and that's been tried with marginal success at best (i.e. Chinese equipment generally sucks).

As for the farmer's tractor, who built the tractor? Going from agriculture to factory replace one industry in America with another. Now we are replacing that industry with low wage service jobs.

Ross Perot...."I told you so".