Fast 19" 8 bit LCD - is there such a thing?

[grey2grey]

Hey crystalbay,

have you seen the coating on the monitor? How is it annoying? I havn't seen this monitor in person, so I'm not quite sure what you mean by coating? What does it do? Can you clean it easily?

Can someone explain 8bit and 6bit panels? what do these terms mean? I think I'll write back viewsonic on the topic of bit'ness. =)

thanks!

 

[johnnyjay]

From the AT article here:

"Color Depth: Almost all LCDs today are 6-bit or 8-bit LCDs. This means that each subpixel - Red, Green, and Blue - can display one of 2 to the n shades where n represents the number of pixels. A typical 8-bit LCD can produce 256 shades per pixel, or 16.7M color combinations. A 6-bit LCD panel can display 64 shades per subpixel, and since there are three subpixels per pixel, the monitor can display 262,000 color combinations per pixel. This is generally OK for gaming, but certainly not acceptable for any graphics development. Personally, I enjoy seeing the other 98% of the 24-bit color spectrum. "

 

[2heaven]

Hey, I am also looking into 19inch LCD monitors. Here's the link to my thread.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...0437&enterthread=y

 

[grey2grey]

Viewsonic wrote me back. =) I think I'll go with the vp912b!

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.

This unit is a 8 bit panel.

Regards,

ViewSonic Technical Support
ViewSonic Corporation
381 Brea Canyon Road
Walnut, CA 91789

 

[JBDan]

Originally posted by: grey2grey
Viewsonic wrote me back. =) I think I'll go with the vp912b!

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.

This unit is a 8 bit panel.

Regards,

ViewSonic Technical Support
ViewSonic Corporation
381 Brea Canyon Road
Walnut, CA 91789

Its a hot!! monitor NJOY

 

[Sleepyghost]

Time to revive this topic

Like Grey2grey previously found out, VP912B seems to be a 8 bit panel (16,7 M colours)
So did ViewSonic Technical Support say and so it probably is.

But on HardForum user "yoshi9784" made the same quetion to same Viewsonic tech support and they said it is 16.2 M (6+2 bit). Who to believe?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026625135


cut'n pasted following part....

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting ViewSonic Technical Support.

The VP912B has a pixel pitch of 0.294mm and a color rating of 16.2M
(6+2 bit). The monitor should be released this month (September).

Regards,

ViewSonic Technical Support
ViewSonic Corporation
381 Brea Canyon Road
Walnut, CA 91789


Dear Customer Care Representative,

I am very interested in the VP912B LCD
monitor advertised on the Viewsonic main page. I
checked out its specifications and did not see two
ratings listed. If they are available, what is the dot
pitch or pixel pitch of the VP912B and what bit rating
is is given for color, such as 8-bit, 16.2mill, or
16.7 million colors?

Also, I am interested in the release date of this
monitor. When it it going to be available?

 

[Sleepyghost]

I'm shopping for fast 19" lcd with good color depth...
as I was when I started this thread.
I thought VP912B was just the ticket, but it wasn't really available where I live (Finland). But now VP912S is here. It seems to be the same as 912B but with different coating (anti-glare 3H) and a silver frame.

I would be happy to buy VP912S if it was 8 bit panel.
Understand my concern (see post above). Anyone know what it is for sure?


Other than that I'm looking into S-IPS panels which, even though being 25ms panels, show very little ghosting, produce excellent colors, offer wide viewing angles and decent contrast.
A compromise between MVA/PVA and TN panels.

Nice S-IPS should be:
Liyama Pro Lite E481S
LG1930B SUH
FSC P19-1A
NEC 1960nxi

My resource for IPS has been this:
http://www.prad.de/board/board.php?boardid=156
(several IPS-raleted threads in english)

 

[Sleepyghost]

Bumbity bumb

I would think there are lots of people like me - wanting a LCD with good color production for CAD / Photoshop / Painter / so on.. but also fast enough to watch movies (color production important here too) and sometimes game a bit.
Am I alone? Hopefully not

Anyway after some considering I'm leaning towards S-IPS panels. For me color production counts more than flashy speed. And if you read an article at X-bit labs, you can find this:
As for advantages, the IPS technology has always been better than TN+Film in terms of color reproduction and viewing angles. In fact, S-IPS matrices leave no chance to other LCD technologies in the color-reproduction quality. They have soft and pleasant colors, which are natural and close to high-quality CRT monitors. That?s why all LCD monitors for professional work with color are based on S-IPS matrices, starting from relatively inexpensive to hi-end models of the Eizo ColorEdge series with integrated tools for custom hardware color-calibration.

That article is very thorough and good. Highly recommended.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...display/lcd-guide.html

Feel free to comment on the subject.
And still if anyone knows if VP912S or VP912B is 8 bit panel for certain, please tell. Thanks.

 

[Sleepyghost]

FOUND IT !
Alrighty! Found the screen for me. It is Lacie Photon19vision (yes, that's how they named it). It uses S-IPS panel originally manufactured by LG (and used in LG 1930B). But, like NEC and Iiyama, Lacie has made it better than LG. I don't exactly know how, but I believe it is matter or better electronics. Just about as good choises as Lacie would have been Nec 1960NXi and Iiyama E481-S.

WHAT IS IT FOR?
If you read this thread you know that my needs are as follows:
A decent all-rounder with very good colors - that's it. A screen mainly for graphics but capable of other things too.

HOW DID YOU FIND IT?
Well, not by advices given here. Don't get me wrong, this is a fine forum. Some research just got me futher and then I found another forum where it was solved. It is a German forum with English sub section. There true experts ("die tft experten") give well thought of advices, find the panel to suit specific needs. For there is no perfect panel, not yet anyway.

I am happy to recommend this forum, but as I do so I hope no one goes there to bash others opinions or claiming something is "the best". It helps no one.

As before I highly recommend this article for anyone wanting to know about LCDs. It should help most to look for something more specific and ask better questions.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...display/lcd-guide.html

And here is link to the forum I respect and will follow from now on for info on LCDs. Prad.de
http://www.prad.de/board/board.php?boardid=11

That's it for this thread. I hope someone found this helpful.

 

[saechaka]

great post. was wondering where you ended up buying your lcd and for what price?

 

[M1CUZ]

Just wondering if anyone has found what differences there are between the vp912b and the vp912s I have read good reviews on the vp912b and it looks to fit my requirements well. But here in the UK I have only been able to locate the vp912s. The specs look to be almost identical.

Cheers for any help.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: M1CUZ
Just wondering if anyone has found what differences there are between the vp912b and the vp912s I have read good reviews on the vp912b and it looks to fit my requirements well. But here in the UK I have only been able to locate the vp912s. The specs look to be almost identical.

S and B in Viewsonic model names usually only refer to the color, in this case silver and black respectively.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Originally posted by: saechaka
great post. was wondering where you ended up buying your lcd and for what price?

Thanks Saechaka Glad to hear it.

Sorry it took a while to respond.. I didn't think anyone would comment.
I live in Finland and I reckoned it might be best to use local vendor. I got my LaCie photon19vision from www.beesting.fi (scandinavia area company, site in finnish). Price I got was 566 EUR + 15 shipping - the best price I could find at the time.

I love the screen And I will review it at the site I recommended (Prad.de) when last parts for my new computer arrive and I can get the beast set up and running.


M1CUZ
You probbly have found all the info you need by now. But if not..
Like Accord99 said VP912S has a silver frame instead of black. But there's more to it. It also has anti-glare coating - unlike VP912B that has reflective glass-like coating. The special coating on VP912B might be partly responsible for the vibrant colors it produces, but this is just me guessing. Anyway I think VP912S is just as good a choice for games, movies and office.
If you still feel like reading go see my thread at Prad.de and the second post in it. Some thoughts and plenty of links for you (on 912B/S).
http://www.prad.de/board/thread.php?threadid=15544

 

[sandpj]

Sleepy: Thanks for the research. I am on the same mission.

I am puzzled by your choice of the Lacie. It looks like it is rated at 25ms. Wasn't the objection to search for a 16ms or less panel?

Paul

 

[JBDan]

http://www.newegg.com/app/view...tion=24-116-347&depa=0
Did not read all the previous posts here, but did find this and a good price.
Sorry its a 17 incher

 

[Azsen]

Originally posted by: johnnyjay
I've been searching for a similar monitor and while searching various sites I found this.

It seems AUO is making a 19" LCD panel with 16.7 million colors and a 8ms gray to gray stated response time. I probably won't be able to afford it but if the specs are true there might be some nice LCD's coming out soon.

Mmm! That is the stuff I am looking for. Almost perfect specs.

I've kind abeen waiting for this one to come out by Samsung which has similiar specs but not quite as good as the one you provided, contrast ratio wise.

How long do we have to wait for these?

 

[sandpj]

Originally posted by: sandpj
Sleepy: Thanks for the research. I am on the same mission.

I am puzzled by your choice of the Lacie. It looks like it is rated at 25ms. Wasn't the objection to search for a 16ms or less panel?

Paul

NM... I read the X Bits article. I did not understand it, but I gather the S-IPS panels provide the combination of image quality and speed that you desired.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Originally posted by: sandpj
NM... I read the X Bits article. I did not understand it, but I gather the S-IPS panels provide the combination of image quality and speed that you desired.

Thanks Paul. Glad to hear I'm not the only one on this mission. And yes, S-IPS does just what I need. My original goal was a panel of about 16ms panel but it had to be one with true 8-bit color production - natural colors. That was a lot to ask. But like that X-bit Labs article says: 25ms, especially with S-IPS, is not a problem.

If I remember correctly, there was a comparison in that article.. two curves showing grey to grey speed of S-IPS compared to TN. They were not very different. S-IPS is suprisingly fast.

Sure, S-IPS panel cannot beat 12ms TN panel, but it is fast enough for me (and for most people should they try it). And like I said colors are more important to me and there S-IPS shines. MVA/PVA will give higher contrast ratio and stronger, more vibrant colors, but I wanted natural. Here it becomes subjective, some like the daughter, some her mother

So you're on the same mission? If your screen requirements are like mine, I can recommend S-IPS. If you want a bit faster and can live with a bit less colors, then maybe a new TN panel? You know I've been looking into VP912S.

VP912B / VP912S and SDM-HS94P, they use the same panel: a-Si TFT, TN (definition from Sony). At least they seem to - panel specs are the same and people who have used them claim they are the same. I was considering VP912S which is 912B but with anti-glare surface. Panel is 6+2 bit, which is not true 8-bit but a bit better than 6 bit. There is some speculation at prad.de about the new TN panels that jump between 8bit and 6bit depending on the needed response time. "6+2 bit" seems like it could be it. All speculation though, you understand.

If you're interested in that TN panel, read my reply above to M1CUZ and take that link.

You know how I found my screen, the LaCie. If you're still looking you can ask here and I'll try to help. Or you can go to the forum I recommended. Or you can still wait for some new kick-ass panels to come out. All the best of luck to your mission.



AZSEN
Whoa, that's a really promising Samsung panel! Thanks for the link. I too hoped the panel technique johnnyjay linked to show up. But it could take some time. But that Samsung would be more than enough. I for now am happy with my LaCie. Maybe in 2/3 years when I upgrade new absolutely perfect LCD panels or some other even better tech is commonplace. That'd be nice

 

[SunSamurai]

Its not called 8bit. Its called 24bit. (3x8=24 .. 8 bits of brightness per red green and blue) 8bit color would be 256 colors.
A monitor can be 8bit, but it will display 24bit color.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Aeternitas
Thanks for the info. Yes, I'm aware that in LCD panel world 8bit translates to 24bit. It should be called 24bit but as you know the manufacturers usually state "8bit" or "6bit" and mean 24bit and 18bit. It can get confusing. But if I say 8 bit LCD people usually know what I mean. Maybe we should just stick to the results and talk about color range, like 16.2M or 16.7M.
(I don't really care about the way of saying as long as I can get my point across)

Good point on the importance of pixel rise/fall time and seeing if it is included it stated response time or not. People shopping on the basis of response times should be careful.

 

[SunSamurai]

Was just try'n to clear things up. Bits can get confuseig for some people, glad you have it right. I was reading more of the thread and decided that the rise and fall times was already talked about so I edited that out of my last post.

When you get into film scanners or scanners in general, this type of thing gets even more complex.

Some LCDs that say they display 8bits of brightness really dont, (or dont do it accuritely) and before I got my LCD I was ready for ugly (but really sharp) images and moderate ghoasting @ 25ms. What I found was,even some more expencive LCDs are just crap in a pretty and possibly thin enclosure. The LCD i got was suprisingly supirior to my friends. There is nearly no color change from even the steepest viewing angels (my friends goes to a green tint even looking at it right on) and 25ms has almost no ghosting except for in old very contrasty 3rd persn shooters (w3d). I can do photograpy and photoshop knowing that the color I see on screen is only ever so slighly washed out at the extreem ends of the spectrums, and is really no worce than all but the best preforming CRTs.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Aeternitas. It was a good point and confusion should be avoided. Didn't mean to snap at you. I added one extra note to the beginning of this thread just to be clear. Don't feel like changing the thread title though.

Good to read you found your LCD a positive suprise I'm happy with mine too. A big improvement from CRT. My CRT was good but this LCD is better and more importantly doesn't hurt my eyes at all.

All the best!

 

[sandpj]

Well, ordered the VP912b from Dell for $500 (incl tax) and free shipping. Lots of $$$ but seems like a very good value for a high quality gaming monitor. Since it is not scheduled to ship until 3/7, I have a lot of time to reconsider. Just hope I won't regret the decision in a year if prices drop a bunch or some new technology appears.

 

[Sleepyghost]

Paul..

Alrighty! Nice choice Based on all the reviews and so many positive comments I've read I'd say you won't be disappointed. For gaming and many other things that VP912B is just fabulous. I like other things than the panel too: cool and very functional design, slim screen edges, Viewsonic dead pixel policy (good).. Only problem could be the reflective surface, but most people don't seem to mind. Maybe you'll give your opinions when it arrives.

Prices will continue dropping, there's no helping it. Although at Tomsharware there were rumors/predictions that prices of LCD panels would stabilize during first/second quarter of this year. Something like demand finally meeting the supply. Anyway that is a good LCD to buy. Have fun with it

 

[sandpj]

Sleepy: I actually saw a post in another thread that said their new VP912B came without the H2 Glare (I believe that's what it is called) surface. It came with the more normal matte finish. The poster called Viewsonic who stated the new VP912b units are coming that way. My existing NEC 1765 has a "glass" top that adds depth to the colors but at the expense of glare. I've gotten used to the glare, but I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

Here's my other concern with the VP912b.... Will I be disappointed not being able to run 16x12? I just got a new video card (NV 6800nu) which does a great job on games at 1280x1024. Since this is mostly for games, I think my system will support 1280x1024 for at least the next generation of games. I think I would strain the system much sooner with 16x12.

Finally, am I paying too much of a premium for 19"? Currently use a 17" which does fine, but I'm not sure how much "better" a 19" will improve game "immersion." Looks like a premium 17" can be had for $350-$400, so it is quite a jump in price.