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Fascinating new study points to the biological basis of homosexuality
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DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Regardless, if this research is subsequently verified, do you think they'll develop a test for "gayness" while the fetus is in the womb?
Or, if it's a simple matter of hormone levels, do you think the use of hormones to prevent homosexual offspring will become widespread?
Or, if it's a simple matter of hormone levels, do you think the use of hormones to prevent homosexual offspring will become widespread?
Future Shock
Senior member
I believe the real issue was anti-bodies produced by the mother against male hormones in her first male child, not her hormone levels themselves. If you suppress the mother's or fetus's male hormones for the first child, HE will likely have a greater chance of becoming gay.
Most likely you would have to do something about the anti-bodies themselves...we need Meuge to weigh in here on this...I don't even know if that is easy to do.
Future Shock
(first male child)
Gibsons
Lifer
Are you certain it's antibodies to male hormones? Even though male hormones are not normally produced at high levels by females, they would still be a self antigen.
There really aren't good ways to stop production of antibodies to a given antigen, the antibodies will produced in lymph nodes throughout the body as well as the spleen. Arthritis and other autoimmune diseases would have been cured by now otherwise. You might be able to supplement hormones to the fetus to overcome the antibodies, or perhaps prevent antibodies from crossing the placenta (only IgG crosses the placenta).
You could also simply suppress the immune system of the mother, but that's not something I would recommend at all.
Gigantopithecus
Diamond Member
Human sexuality can not be 100% genetic. 100% genetic traits are always discrete in nature (ie. blood types). Sexual preferences are a spectrum, indicating there is a large environmental component.
If it smells like sh*t...
Future Shock
Senior member
No, I am NOT certain, but there are two posts a page back (one by DonVito whom I respect highly for his accuracy) that claim this. It was not in the OP...
FS
Gigantopithecus
Diamond Member
Eh, old news. Bogaert published a similar study to this back in March in the journal Hormones & Behavior. Here's the abstract:
Abstract: The present study investigated evidence for an interaction between two of the best established etiologic factors, or markers of etiologic factors, in the literature on male homosexuality: fraternal birth order and hand preference. By combining five samples, the authors produced study groups of 1774 right-handed heterosexuals, 287 non-right-handed heterosexuals, 928 right-handed homosexuals, and 157 non-right-handed homosexuals. The results showed a significant (P=0.004) handedness by older brothers interaction, such that (a) the typical positive correlation between homosexuality and greater numbers of older brothers holds only for right-handed males, (b) among men with no older brothers, homosexuals are more likely to be non-right-handed than heterosexuals; among men with one or more older brothers, homosexuals are less likely to be non-right-handed than heterosexuals, and (c) the odds of homosexuality are higher for men who have a non-right hand preference or who have older brothers, relative to men with neither of these features, but the odds for men with both features are similar to the odds for men with neither. These findings have at least two possible explanations: (a) the etiologic factors associated with non-right-handedness and older brothers-hypothesi zed to be hyperandrogenization and anti-male antibodies, respectively-counteract each other, yielding the functional equivalent of typical masculinization, and (b) the number of non-tight-handed homosexuals with older brothers is smaller than expected because the combination of the older brothers factor with the non-right-handedness factor is toxic enough to lower the probability that the affected fetus will survive.
Abstract: The present study investigated evidence for an interaction between two of the best established etiologic factors, or markers of etiologic factors, in the literature on male homosexuality: fraternal birth order and hand preference. By combining five samples, the authors produced study groups of 1774 right-handed heterosexuals, 287 non-right-handed heterosexuals, 928 right-handed homosexuals, and 157 non-right-handed homosexuals. The results showed a significant (P=0.004) handedness by older brothers interaction, such that (a) the typical positive correlation between homosexuality and greater numbers of older brothers holds only for right-handed males, (b) among men with no older brothers, homosexuals are more likely to be non-right-handed than heterosexuals; among men with one or more older brothers, homosexuals are less likely to be non-right-handed than heterosexuals, and (c) the odds of homosexuality are higher for men who have a non-right hand preference or who have older brothers, relative to men with neither of these features, but the odds for men with both features are similar to the odds for men with neither. These findings have at least two possible explanations: (a) the etiologic factors associated with non-right-handedness and older brothers-hypothesi zed to be hyperandrogenization and anti-male antibodies, respectively-counteract each other, yielding the functional equivalent of typical masculinization, and (b) the number of non-tight-handed homosexuals with older brothers is smaller than expected because the combination of the older brothers factor with the non-right-handedness factor is toxic enough to lower the probability that the affected fetus will survive.
There are old biological processes that regulate sexual differentiation, I believe, such as ambient temperature and crocodile sex. Perhaps such regulators are still part of our genetic makeup. It seems that humans have moved away from a common primate model of dominant male and harem to one on one paring. Perhaps, as for example in fighting fish, the fry secrete growth inhibiting hormones into the water around them, to suppress the growth of their brothers. Perhaps there was a time in our past where it was advantageous that there be more females than males or even an outlet for the limitations harem life imposes on all but the dominant male.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Well as a former football player (and wrestler) and current physician scientist . . . I beg to differ.
There's a lot of misinformation coming from a variety of posts. Some of you need to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject (definitely NOT talking about you aidanjm).
For the record, a variety of antibodies cross the placental membranes. IgG is the most likely to cross while IgM is almost never found. IIRC, IgD is a distant 2nd to IgG when it comes to crossing the placenta.
The 'hypothesis' that sexual orientation has a genetic component is old; but the search for a distinct gene has not been productive.
The 'hypothesis' that sexual orientation is congenital (happens before birth) is old. This most recent study provides additional evidence that NATURE may play a significant role.
The last two decades have seen a tremendous expansion in research on factors that affect in utero development but aren't necessarily coded by a person's DNA (prescription drugs, illicit drugs, heavy metals, smoking, air pollution, maternal hormones, maternal antibodies, maternal antigens, maternal diet, even the season of your conception/birth).
That is NOT to say that homosexuality is akin to a disease. Many in utero factors lie along a continuum as does human sexuality. So levels of maternal antibodies, hormones, essential fatty acids (DHA/EPA), zinc, iodine, B-vitamins, or choline can be associated with disease states, normal development, or superior development.
The use of "less than certain" language is a hallmark of scientific literature. It's science NOT religion. The Methods and Results of a study are FACTS. There's a very high degree of certainty in those sections; if not we call that misconduct . . . granted politicians call it spin . . . and people with good morals call it lying.
The Discussion is our interpretation of those facts. Popular media accounts of scientific publications give a synopsis of the Discussion. In essence, they hit the highlights of an interpretation of the Results. But the media's emphasis doesn't necessarily reflect the emphasis of the authors. Having said that, good writers will often contact the study authors and have them review a lay article to ensure it accurately reflects the research. A really good writer will also vet that information with another authority that did not participate in the research.
Anybody that grew up with more than 2 gay people knows that NATURE plays a huge and likely primary role in sexual orientation. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that science will stem the tide of intolerance . . . considering many of the intolerant don't really care for science.
QFT. For example, most child molesters were molested themselves. Although there is a control and/or violent element, pedophilia is also a sexual orientation.
I'm not interested enough to spend time on gay or anti-gay websites, but I'm curious: is it true or not that there is a greater likelihood of being a gay man if you are raised without a father?
Various animals engage in homosexual activities in order to form closer bonds. Perhaps the existance of a small percentage of homosexual animals (including humans) was necessary in order to encourage heterosexual members of the species to engage in homosexual activity, and therefore form these closer bonds. A theory.
BaliBabyDoc
Lifer
Actually that's a hypothesis not a theory.🙂
I am digging Daryl Bem's stuff on gays.
"What is exotic is erotic"
Bem's study here
And no he is not a crack pot
Gigantopithecus
Diamond Member
Are you illiterate, or did you just knee-jerk after I pointed out that a functionally identical study was published 3 months ago, with nearly identical findings?
Studies 'teasing out biological versus social contributions' to homosexuality have been done many, many times before (the earliest I can recall are over 10 years old now), but I'll pardon your ignorance.
Again, anyone with a marginal education in the biological basis of behavior knows sexual orientation will have both a biological & environmental component. There are scores of researchers trying to figure out what, exactly, those components are, and the notion that birth order might play some role in determining orientation is not new.
You are right. aidanjm should be horse whipped for starting this thread on this antique information that everybody on earth already had memorized. I propose a time limit of 14 seconds on any data coming before this board. If it's older than that is just isn't relevant to the modern world.
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