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Farming for riches by John McCain

ProfJohn

ProfJohn

Lifer
Why McCain will make a good President 🙂
Opinions like this aren't very popular in Washington, but we are going to need wholesale changes like this to really make a difference in this country.
With all his talk about 'change' is Obama really offering anything different?

link
I may surprise some people by saying what few presidential candidates would ever be willing to say out loud in farm country: I'd veto the farm bill?a bloated expansion in federal spending that will do more harm than good.

When agricultural commodity prices and exports have reached record highs, we no longer need government-grown farms and mammoth government bureaucracies. As grocery bills soar, food banks go bare and food rationing occurs on a global scale, we must challenge the wisdom of this bill. We must question policies that divert more than 25 percent of corn out of the food supply and into subsidized ethanol production. We must question a supply-control sugar program that costs Americans $2 billion annually in higher sugar prices.

Can we honestly demand fair and free trade from other countries when this bill increases trade distorting payment rates and restores an illegal cotton program? Sen. Barack Obama has raised the rhetoric on fair trade and restoring fiscal discipline, but his support for the farm bill betrays the inconsistency of his position: Cry foul with our trade partners, but break the rules at home.

The majority of subsidies in this proposal go to large commercial farms that average $200,000 in annual income and $2 million in net worth, and the bill allows a single farmer to earn more than $1 million before cutting subsidies. How can we credibly extend this largesse to this constituency? If I am elected president, I will seek an end to all farm subsidies and tariffs that are not based on clear need.

The farm bill will cost taxpayers nearly $300 billion, including $5 billion for direct payments each year to farmers, regardless of whether they grow anything. Growing better crops using less land, water and natural resources requires a more robust research approach, but this bill spends more than twice as much on direct payments as it does on agricultural research.

I am not opposed to providing a reasonable risk management for farmers. When farmers suffer from a natural disaster such as droughts or floods, we should assist them. But this bill fails to make the reforms needed to provide that assistance responsibly.

Such sensible reforms may be missing, but the pork is not. Congress should be ashamed of this mockery of its promise to rein in waste and earmarks. Buried within its hundreds of pages is $93 million in tax breaks for race horses, a $4 billion trust fund for disaster payments on top of subsidized crop insurance that is supposed to take care of such "disasters," and the list goes on. If that wasn't enough, this bill would send $250 million of taxpayers' money to Plum Creek Timber Co. in Montana. Plum Creek, according to its Web site, "is the largest and most geographically diverse private land owner in the nation" and paid a healthy dividend to shareholders last quarter.

It is time to wean ourselves from the huge crop subsidies being paid by taxpayers and the flawed policies that distort the markets, artificially raise prices for consumers and pit producers against consumers.
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i wonder if he realizes that subsidies lower prices, not raise them? There are problems with the current setup, but a subsidy program certainly needs to be implemented if only for potential famine protection.

i agree on the sugar and and ethanol though, and his figure for sugar is actually very low compared to what we studied in class, more in the 8-12 billion range. Also a 2 million dollar farming operation is about average, and to be perfectly honest we should be encouraging larger farms and end this 'small farm' horseshit, they are less efficient, period.
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i wonder if he realizes that subsidies lower prices, not raise them? There are problems with the current setup, but a subsidy program certainly needs to be implemented if only for potential famine protection.

i agree on the sugar and and ethanol though, and his figure for sugar is actually very low compared to what we studied in class, more in the 8-12 billion range. Also a 2 million dollar farming operation is about average, and to be perfectly honest we should be encouraging larger farms and end this 'small farm' horseshit, they are less efficient, period.
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Yeah, but the gov subsidizes the farms, and where do they get their money from? Us, so its just us paying the gov so they can pay the farmers. We need to cut that out.
 
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
 
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

hehe, that was one of the first thoughts I had too.
 
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

Cutting waste? Universal Health Care anyone. Talk about waste. Take a guess at what will happen to medical prices when Nanny Government is picking up the tab? It's a blank check.

 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

Cutting waste? Universal Health Care anyone. Talk about waste. Take a guess at what will happen to medical prices when Nanny Government is picking up the tab? It's a blank check.
Click to expand...

That and Obama voted for this horrendously bloated farm bill. That's hardly cutting waste. That's not even close to his 'change' rhetoric. That is the politics of DC as usual.

I call McCain "Sen McCain and Mr. Hyde". He has his moments like this and voting against the farm bill that are good. Then he has his Mr. Hyde moments with supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants and that stupid campaign finance reform bill.
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

Cutting waste? Universal Health Care anyone. Talk about waste. Take a guess at what will happen to medical prices when Nanny Government is picking up the tab? It's a blank check.
Click to expand...

Uhh you mean like in the rest of the developed world where medical costs are higher because they ALL have UHC? Oh wait, their costs are LOWER because they all have UHC.

You need to forward me the memo about our current health care system keeping costs low, because I must have missed it.
 
Originally posted by: GenHoth
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i wonder if he realizes that subsidies lower prices, not raise them? There are problems with the current setup, but a subsidy program certainly needs to be implemented if only for potential famine protection.

i agree on the sugar and and ethanol though, and his figure for sugar is actually very low compared to what we studied in class, more in the 8-12 billion range. Also a 2 million dollar farming operation is about average, and to be perfectly honest we should be encouraging larger farms and end this 'small farm' horseshit, they are less efficient, period.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the gov subsidizes the farms, and where do they get their money from? Us, so its just us paying the gov so they can pay the farmers. We need to cut that out.
Click to expand...

prices at the grocery store are lower with subsidies, due to the nature of the market, the amount of the subsidy is almost the same as the amount of the decline in food prices.
 
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Uhh you mean like in the rest of the developed world where medical costs are higher because they ALL have UHC? Oh wait, their costs are LOWER because they all have UHC.

You need to forward me the memo about our current health care system keeping costs low, because I must have missed it.
Click to expand...
Their costs are lower because their level of service is lower. Look at wait times for treatment etc.

And I think you missed his point. For every dollar that Obama will save by cutting 'waste' he will spend 3 or 4 more on new government programs.
 
As a Canadian I've always hated US farm subsidies cause we hardly subsidize our farmers becasue we can't afford to as we export 80% of our pulses cereals and oil seeds and its hard to compete with heavy US subsidy
The US consumes 80% so basically the subsidy is cheap food for the people same for Europe who also has a heavy subsidy.

The positive is the Canadian farmer has had to become MUCH more efficient to survive at the expense of the farm family.
Aint global economics grand 🙂
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

Cutting waste? Universal Health Care anyone. Talk about waste. Take a guess at what will happen to medical prices when Nanny Government is picking up the tab? It's a blank check.
Click to expand...

ah, "blank check" - like the one given to Bush and Company for Iraq.

money well spent........
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Uhh you mean like in the rest of the developed world where medical costs are higher because they ALL have UHC? Oh wait, their costs are LOWER because they all have UHC.

You need to forward me the memo about our current health care system keeping costs low, because I must have missed it.
Click to expand...
Their costs are lower because their level of service is lower. Look at wait times for treatment etc.

And I think you missed his point. For every dollar that Obama will save by cutting 'waste' he will spend 3 or 4 more on new government programs.
Click to expand...

Why don't you just get a parrot and teach it to say "wait times", and any other nonsense that you must be tired of saying by now? You can even teach it to pick out examples of longer waits from the first world, ALL OF WHICH has UHC.

Which part of our system to you represents higher level of service? HMOs? 85% insured vs 100% in all of Europe, Canada, Australia, and Japan? Job locking caused by preexisting conditions? The overburdening of emergency rooms by the poor?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/.../countries/models.html
 
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

Cutting waste? Universal Health Care anyone. Talk about waste. Take a guess at what will happen to medical prices when Nanny Government is picking up the tab? It's a blank check.
Click to expand...

Uhh you mean like in the rest of the developed world where medical costs are higher because they ALL have UHC? Oh wait, their costs are LOWER because they all have UHC.

You need to forward me the memo about our current health care system keeping costs low, because I must have missed it.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of articles about Canadians coming to the United States for medical procedures because the wait times would literally kill them. 4 months for an operation on malignant cancer?

Boy I cant wait for UHC to show up in the United States.

 
:laugh:

And Clinton or Obama would repeal NAFTA. It MUST be an election year. The politicians are posturing and pandering and the faithful are eating it up.
 
McCain has his heart in the right place when he's not pandering to the GOP. I think his presidency would parallel Arnold's governatorship. First he'd try to please his base and go right, then after getting that blocked for a while, he'll tilt to center where he is more comfortable and stay there.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: UberNeuman
Oh my God, McCain is trying to force farmers into a communist idea that doesn't hold up to the American dream!!!!!!!!!

If Obama talks about cutting waste, he's a latter day commie - if McCain talks about cutting waste - he's a HERO?

What is this shit!?!
Click to expand...

Cutting waste? Universal Health Care anyone. Talk about waste. Take a guess at what will happen to medical prices when Nanny Government is picking up the tab? It's a blank check.
Click to expand...

Uhh you mean like in the rest of the developed world where medical costs are higher because they ALL have UHC? Oh wait, their costs are LOWER because they all have UHC.

You need to forward me the memo about our current health care system keeping costs low, because I must have missed it.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of articles about Canadians coming to the United States for medical procedures because the wait times would literally kill them. 4 months for an operation on malignant cancer?

Boy I cant wait for UHC to show up in the United States.
Click to expand...

What if I want a reduced level of service in return for cheaper costs? Lots of people these days complain about the cost of medical insurance. One would think that, in a free market environment, there would be providers catering to such a consumer demand, particularly among the young and healthy. But there isn't. Why not?

Because we already have government-run health care in the US. Duh. Medicare foots the bill for more than half of all health care in this country. Tax breaks and subsidies to the "Blues" and HMOs fill out the rest of the marketplace.
I, for one at least, would strongly argue for a real free market system, but that's awfully hard to do when you have a significant chunk of the people in this country believing that the current system actually is some kind of free market system, when in fact it is already very much socialized (more so even than in some countries which claim to have UHC).
 
There is no doubt about it that our system is also broken. One of the issues that jumps out at me is state mandates in regards to insurance coverage. It is of little surprise insurance rates rise when the state mandates every health insurance policy must cover xyz. Like you said, what if I want my insurance plan to cover x and z but not y? Shouldnt I see a reduced premium if I dropped coverage for disease y?
 
Originally posted by: Genx87

There are plenty of articles about Canadians coming to the United States for medical procedures because the wait times would literally kill them. 4 months for an operation on malignant cancer?

Boy I cant wait for UHC to show up in the United States.
Click to expand...

The wait times are only shorter here because 25% of the population can't afford to go see a doctor.

Oh, and for the record, POP THE BUBBLY!!!...we rank 37th!!!...not #1 like the righties have been taught to parrot uncontrollably and inconsistently with the facts or reality.

 
From WaPo:

At the same time, party moderates have been urging their colleagues to oppose Bush at every opportunity or face electoral disaster in November.

"If I was a farm-belt guy, I would be all over my district now, saying, 'I stood with you, not the party of the president,' " said Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.), who wrote to GOP leaders last week, urging them to defy Bush or at least allow rank-and-file members to save themselves. "Anytime you can separate yourself from someone with a 28 percent favorability rating, that's a good thing."
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It would be the understatement of the year to say I'm enjoying watching the GOP feed on its own flesh to stay alive this fall.
 
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