Far left students shuts down Professor from speaking at free speech event in Toronto

[sdifox]

I don't want my government to decide what is "hate propaganda".

You are safe, you are in America.

 

[UglyCasanova]

This guy explains some of it quite well:

But generally it's a lot of what conservatives complain about routinely, from political correctness to new-wave feminism, "campus rape culture," all the other sjw nonsense, and their open alignment with islamic fascism. Recently I've been finding conservatives a lot more reasonable than before.

Interesting video. There's a lot in there that I disagree with but his points about so called liberals abandoning their principles when it comes to Islam seem accurate. They should t be supporters of Christianity or Judaism for that matter. I don't see how you can advocate for liberal positions and support a religion/culture that stands for a lot of the things ingrained in Islam.

Here's an interesting article on Muslim viewpoints around the world: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

I find it bizarre that such an outpouring of support comes for a group that has poll numbers like this:

86% in Egypt. Or how about their views on homosexuality?

These are the antithesis of the liberal viewpoint, we shouldn't encourage and support a culture like this. Im sure you can find equally repugnant data on christians, we shouldn't advocate for that either. Reading through that article is chart after chart of poll data with numbers far too high supporting ideas that liberals would absolutely be against if it were any other group. Replace Islam with Christians in there and I'm sure you'd have thread after thread of people on here bashing them for how backwards they are, giving themselves high fives because they are against a religion so openly bigoted and absurd. Yet...it's Islam so it's just culture and deep down they're peaceful and should be welcomed with open arms.

Like I said I don't agree with everything this guy said and obviously no one else on here does either, but it is telling how all of the replies simply attack the source rather than the message. I have no doubt it's because on some points he's right. They know Islam doesn't jive with their principals and beliefs, but the world is hyper polarized now and everything is us vs them.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You are safe, you are in America.

Haha if only.

Freedom of speech is more open and free in America for now, but there's attacks on both sides trying to erode it as much as possible. Whether it be conservatives trying to stop people for protesting or burning flags, or liberals trying to keep any ideas they don't agree with from being expressed on campuses, the freedom of speech is under constant attack and needs defending now more than ever.

 

[Commodus]

I don't want my government to decide what is "hate propaganda".

It's a thorny issue, to be sure, but it seems like Canada has its act together with very generic language that prevents obvious abuses. I don't know that it'd fly in the US given constitutional issues (not to mention a greater likelihood that politicians would mess with it), but nor do I think it's having a chilling effect in its home country.

 

[VRAMdemon]

+1 On this topic I totally agree that the use of "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings" has gone way, way too far.

To the OP's specific point: I have strong reservations about shouting down any speaker to the point where they can't speak at all. Vigorous dissent from the audience? Ok. But not this. It's puerile. Make your points against their points. But not 100% override such as I saw on this vid.

However, these are 19 year old college kids. What excuse does, say, Bully Bill O'Reilly have for unfairly shouting and shutting down guests he doesn't agree with, to the point of cutting their mikes? He's a grown man with a millions strong audience.

I fear the ugly imbalance of Fox News and Breitbart more than a small clutch of asshole college students. They might yet grow up.

Agreed...It seems some leftists seek to impose uniformity of thought on other leftists. Why wasn't Peterson permitted to speak? Fear that some leftists would be "corrupted"?

 

[sdifox]

Agreed...It seems some leftists seek to impose uniformity of thought on other leftists. Why wasn't Peterson permitted to speak? Fear that some leftists would be "corrupted"?

Prof Peterson did speak... Ezra Levant didn't.

 

[Vic]

The only propaganda going on here is the right's ongoing bullshit that any public disagreement or criticism of their speech is the same as government infringement and censorship of their speech.

 

[UglyCasanova]

The only propaganda going on here is the right's ongoing bullshit that any public disagreement or criticism of their speech is the same as government infringement and censorship of their speech.

The discussion turned into quite literally how the Canadian government does censor the freedom of speech. The original discussion being how the left has moved towards advocating infringing upon and censoring people freedom to speak and openly express their ideas, not the governments.

 

[agent00f]

Yes, all true, to a point, and I do understand the this is the minor league dialect of the pendulum swing at work, in that safe spaces and such are a response to groups never having had control of their space, BUT . . .

This had better be a short, sharp reaction that soon passes because EVERYONE needs to be exposed to competing stances in the free marketplace of ideas for their own damn good! Groups retreating to their own special echo chambers of lockstep non-dissent is dangerous, imho. We liberals should never, ever be afraid of bullshit trumping (to use a phrase) the truth, as we best understand it. If you trust what you believe is correct, it will win out in the long run.

Herding "others" into the ghetto of their very own "safe spaces" and/or cravenly catering to their "triggers" is absolutely patronizing and infantilizing them.

The whole idea of a liberal arts degree in college used to be, "Here, you will find your intellectual voice. You will learn how to think for yourself in the crucible of conflicting ideas, and this capability will serve you the rest of your damn life." It goes to that old cliche, "Give a man a fish and he will eat for one day, but teach a man to fish and he will never go hungry."

"Safe space" isn't really the right way to frame the issue. Take for example how basically any academic class can be consider a safe space for somewhat proven pools of ideas given it shuns failures of them. That's why creationism doesn't exist anymore in science.

There's often an assumption in policy (via "politics") that demonstrable failures should still be kept around for whatever reason, to the detriment of all forward facing ideals. That's why creationism still has a place in public policy/politics.

 

[Paratus]

Interesting video. There's a lot in there that I disagree with but his points about so called liberals abandoning their principles when it comes to Islam seem accurate. They should t be supporters of Christianity or Judaism for that matter. I don't see how you can advocate for liberal positions and support a religion/culture that stands for a lot of the things ingrained in Islam.

Here's an interesting article on Muslim viewpoints around the world: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

I find it bizarre that such an outpouring of support comes for a group that has poll numbers like this:

86% in Egypt. Or how about their views on homosexuality?

These are the antithesis of the liberal viewpoint, we shouldn't encourage and support a culture like this. Im sure you can find equally repugnant data on christians, we shouldn't advocate for that either. Reading through that article is chart after chart of poll data with numbers far too high supporting ideas that liberals would absolutely be against if it were any other group. Replace Islam with Christians in there and I'm sure you'd have thread after thread of people on here bashing them for how backwards they are, giving themselves high fives because they are against a religion so openly bigoted and absurd. Yet...it's Islam so it's just culture and deep down they're peaceful and should be welcomed with open arms.

Like I said I don't agree with everything this guy said and obviously no one else on here does either, but it is telling how all of the replies simply attack the source rather than the message. I have no doubt it's because on some points he's right. They know Islam doesn't jive with their principals and beliefs, but the world is hyper polarized now and everything is us vs them.

While fundamentalist Islam doesn't jibe with liberal values anymore than fundamentalist Christianity does, freedom of belief is a cherished value that most liberals will vehemently support.

This can be seen strange to those who know many liberals don't like religion and those who shit their pants when a brown person says "God is Great!", (but not when someone says in Jesus Christs name Amen). Secularists know that the more exposure to education and Hope people have the less fundamentalist they are.

So I and many other liberals have no problem with anyone living in this country practicing what ever religion they want as long as they can abide by our secular laws.

Quite frankly I could start a fundamentalist religion right now that also condemns non believers, bans alcohol, dancing and treats women as second class and there's nothing in the constitution to stop me as long as I don't force it on anyone, (other thab my kids of course).

 

[agent00f]

The discussion turned into quite literally how the Canadian government does censor the freedom of speech. The original discussion being how the left has moved towards advocating infringing upon and censoring people freedom to speak and openly express their ideas, not the governments.

The only worthwhile discussion here is among liberals of to what extent backwards shits should be allowed to pollute society. What backwards shits think is entirely irrelevant.

Interesting video. There's a lot in there that I disagree with but his points about so called liberals abandoning their principles when it comes to Islam seem accurate. They should t be supporters of Christianity or Judaism for that matter. I don't see how you can advocate for liberal positions and support a religion/culture that stands for a lot of the things ingrained in Islam.

Here's an interesting article on Muslim viewpoints around the world: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

I find it bizarre that such an outpouring of support comes for a group that has poll numbers like this:

86% in Egypt. Or how about their views on homosexuality?

These are the antithesis of the liberal viewpoint, we shouldn't encourage and support a culture like this. Im sure you can find equally repugnant data on christians, we shouldn't advocate for that either. Reading through that article is chart after chart of poll data with numbers far too high supporting ideas that liberals would absolutely be against if it were any other group. Replace Islam with Christians in there and I'm sure you'd have thread after thread of people on here bashing them for how backwards they are, giving themselves high fives because they are against a religion so openly bigoted and absurd. Yet...it's Islam so it's just culture and deep down they're peaceful and should be welcomed with open arms.

Like I said I don't agree with everything this guy said and obviously no one else on here does either, but it is telling how all of the replies simply attack the source rather than the message. I have no doubt it's because on some points he's right. They know Islam doesn't jive with their principals and beliefs, but the world is hyper polarized now and everything is us vs them.

Just because there are other backwards shits in the world doesn't make your bigot friends any better.

 

[UglyCasanova]

While fundamentalist Islam doesn't jibe with liberal values anymore than fundamentalist Christianity does, freedom of belief is a cherished value that most liberals will vehemently support.

This can be seen strange to those who know many liberals don't like religion and those who shit their pants when a brown person says "God is Great!", (but not when someone says in Jesus Christs name Amen). Secularists know that the more exposure to education and Hope people have the less fundamentalist they are.

So I and many other liberals have no problem with anyone living in this country practicing what ever religion they want as long as they can abide by our secular laws.

Quite frankly I could start a fundamentalist religion right now that also condemns non believers, bans alcohol, dancing and treats women as second class and there's nothing in the constitution to stop me as long as I don't force it on anyone, (other thab my kids of course).

Plenty of threads on here that take the opposite approach when it comes to Christianity. Defend Islam at all cost, but when it comes to .Christianity...

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/fundamentalist-christianity-a-personal-anecdote.2482452/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/can-christians-do-good-for-goodness-sake.2494403/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/christians-on-decline-non-believers-skyrocketing-in-us.2431167/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/oh-those-poor-poor-christians.2382966/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/persecuted-american-christians-you-are-recognized.2376046/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/this-is-why-you-are-hated-christians-catholics.2247831/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/are-many-conservatives-christian-fascists-in-disguise.2375961/

And there's many, many more. Your head is planted firmly in the sand if you think the left has such an open and tolerant attitude for it. Read through the Christianity on the decline thread I linked. It's hypocrisy plain and simple.

If you're bored and feel like reading just how tolerant the left is, there's plenty of reading here:

https://forums.anandtech.com/search/219072/?q=Christian&t=post&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=24

 

[Vic]

The discussion turned into quite literally how the Canadian government does censor the freedom of speech. The original discussion being how the left has moved towards advocating infringing upon and censoring people freedom to speak and openly express their ideas, not the governments.

A few years ago, a prominent conservative author wrote a book about how an entire political philosophy (liberalism) is a mental disorder that should be outlawed, and it was a bestseller. Let me know when the Left reaches that level of acceptance of authoritarianism, instead of just these rabble protesters, and then I'll get concerned.

 

[agent00f]

Plenty of threads on here that take the opposite approach when it comes to Christianity. Defend Islam at all cost, but when it comes to .Christianity...

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/fundamentalist-christianity-a-personal-anecdote.2482452/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/can-christians-do-good-for-goodness-sake.2494403/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/christians-on-decline-non-believers-skyrocketing-in-us.2431167/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/oh-those-poor-poor-christians.2382966/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/persecuted-american-christians-you-are-recognized.2376046/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/this-is-why-you-are-hated-christians-catholics.2247831/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/are-many-conservatives-christian-fascists-in-disguise.2375961/

And there's many, many more. Your head is planted firmly in the sand if you think the left has such an open and tolerant attitude for it. Read through the Christianity on the decline thread I linked. It's hypocrisy plain and simple.

If you're bored and feel like reading just how tolerant the left is, there's plenty of reading here:

https://forums.anandtech.com/search/219072/?q=Christian&t=post&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=24

Let's not pretend white nationalists hate on browns because some of them are just as conservative.

 

[UglyCasanova]

A few years ago, a prominent conservative author wrote a book about how an entire political philosophy (liberalism) is a mental disorder that should be outlawed, and it was a bestseller. Let me know when the Left reaches that level of acceptance of authoritarianism, instead of just these rabble protesters, and then I'll get concerned.

Ok

 

[HamburgerBoy]

A few years ago, a prominent conservative author wrote a book about how an entire political philosophy (liberalism) is a mental disorder that should be outlawed, and it was a bestseller. Let me know when the Left reaches that level of acceptance of authoritarianism, instead of just these rabble protesters, and then I'll get concerned.

Who says liberals can't write books about wanting to ban a political viewpoint? I don't give a shit about the fantasies of wannabe Stalins, but I do care about lawlessness to the point of mob violence.

(Did Michael Savage actually want to outlaw liberalism? I was an avid listener when that book came out and my parents bought it for me. I don't remember him saying that, mostly just ranting about the usual, but it was half a lifetime ago for me so my memory may be off.)

 

[Blue_Max]

A few years ago, a prominent conservative author wrote a book about how an entire political philosophy (liberalism) is a mental disorder that should be outlawed, and it was a bestseller. Let me know when the Left reaches that level of acceptance of authoritarianism, instead of just these rabble protesters, and then I'll get concerned.

Hello? Alinsky's Rules for Radicals has been a staple of the marxist leftists for decades.

Merely one example of an entire far-left intersectional library. *sigh*

 

[Paratus]

Plenty of threads on here that take the opposite approach when it comes to Christianity. Defend Islam at all cost, but when it comes to .Christianity...

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/fundamentalist-christianity-a-personal-anecdote.2482452/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/can-christians-do-good-for-goodness-sake.2494403/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/christians-on-decline-non-believers-skyrocketing-in-us.2431167/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/oh-those-poor-poor-christians.2382966/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/persecuted-american-christians-you-are-recognized.2376046/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/this-is-why-you-are-hated-christians-catholics.2247831/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/are-many-conservatives-christian-fascists-in-disguise.2375961/

And there's many, many more. Your head is planted firmly in the sand if you think the left has such an open and tolerant attitude for it. Read through the Christianity on the decline thread I linked. It's hypocrisy plain and simple.

If you're bored and feel like reading just how tolerant the left is, there's plenty of reading here:

https://forums.anandtech.com/search/219072/?q=Christian&t=post&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=24

I think you are misinterpreting the vehemence to be against all Christians in those threads. It's not against all Christians. It's against fundamentalists who wish to use the power of the government to enforce their beliefs on the rest of us.

Such as:

• Teaching Christian dogma in science class
• Placing Christian dogma on government buildings
• Forcing doctors to recite Christian dogma to patients
• Allowing Christian business owners dogma to restrict employee health care
• Allowing Christians business owners to renege on agreements for business licenses due to their dogma
• Restricting women's health care based on Christian dogma
• Etc

Believing these things is perfectly fine. Using the government to enforce this dogma is intolerable. As I said any who wish to live here should have a chance to regardless of what they believe if they can live by our secular laws.

Fighting for a strong wall between church and state also protects us from the Muslims which scare so many on the right.

 

[theeedude]

I agree with the sentiment on point 2 and this being in Canada means its their issue to hash out.

Regarding number 1 though I think the assault of the freedom of speech (and ideas in general) is a huge problem for us in the US. Whether it be flag burning or a controversial speaker, freedom of speech is freedom of speech and this isn't something we should just sweep under the rug because there's bigger fish to fry.

This is not a situation of the government passing laws or taking a side against free speech, which is what the 1st Amendment is about in the US. Obviously if someone is disruptive or threatening, that is a crime, but it's not a free speech issue in a traditional sense. If I say someone's mother is a whore, and they punch me in the mouth, unless they are part of the government, it's assault, not a violation of my 1st amendment rights.

 

[jackstar7]

I can't wait for people arguing for "free speech" to start with 2+2=5 being just as valid as 2+2=4 and worthy of its audience.

 

[UglyCasanova]

This is not a situation of the government passing laws or taking a side against free speech, which is what the 1st Amendment is about in the US. Obviously if someone is disruptive or threatening, that is a crime, but it's not a free speech issue in a traditional sense. If I say someone's mother is a whore, and they punch me in the mouth, unless they are part of the government, it's assault, not a violation of my 1st amendment rights.

It's not the government yet, but if left unchecked who knows. We've already discussed in this very thread about our neighbor to the north that I'd assume most of us were surprised to hear isn't quite as free as we thought in regards to free speech. We have examples all of the time of people pushing their schools into coddling them and doing away with speech they don't like, even public taxpayer funded institutions. It's small pushes, but over time those small pushes add up.

For your comment on getting punched in the mouth I'm not following. Words have consequences, is that what you're getting at. If so...ok? Who said otherwise?

 

[UglyCasanova]

I can't wait for people arguing for "free speech" to start with 2+2=5 being just as valid as 2+2=4 and worthy of its audience.

So you are against free speech? I find this whole anti first amendment push over the last year scary and fascinating. What's your position and what's your rationale?

 

[ivwshane]

I can't wait for people arguing for "free speech" to start with 2+2=5 being just as valid as 2+2=4 and worthy of its audience.

Sadly I think people have been thinking that way for years, certainly the media has given credence to political positions that don't deserve it and I think they've done it to try and seem fair and balanced.

 

[ivwshane]

So you are against free speech? I find this whole anti first amendment push over the last year scary and fascinating. What's your position and what's your rationale?

You really aren't smart enough to have a rational discussion with.

Work on responding without resorting to straw man arguments and then you might get more meaningful responses.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You really aren't smart enough to have a rational discussion with.

Work on responding without resorting to straw man arguments and then you might get more meaningful responses.

Thankfully I wasn't asking you anything so you can save your breath.