Far Cry 2 DRM/Securom/limited activations...

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: LS8
I guess we won't be seeing FarCry 2 used as a benchmark in any AnandTech reviews... One review would eat up all the installs.

They'd need like 10 copies.. lol, what a PITA that would be.

 

[imported_clockerspiel]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Zenoth
No need of Ubisoft for that, lots of people crack their legitimately bought games to play them if they have problems to do so otherwise, one way or another FarCry 2 WILL always be playable as long as people are interested in doing so, is it the best choice? Certainly not, but we've come to this, and we better get used to it, since DRM is here to stay, apparently at least.

I really like that you are trying to support the developers and that's your reason for buying the game, but it's comments like this that guarantee that DRM will be here to stay. If we all just stand by and let these publishers get away with this crap then you're right, we better get used to it. The alternative is not supporting any game with SecuROM or activation based DRM by voting with your wallet. This is all the publishers will listen to. If they get the message that DRM hurts the sales of a product they will get rid of it. If not, then nothing will change.

I usually have 10 - 15 games installed on my computer at one time. I also upgrade my graphics card, motherboard, CPU, etc.. at least once or twice a year. If this trend continues those 15 games might someday all be SecuROM "protected" games. I can't imagine having to revoke then renew licenses for 15 games just to install a graphics card or CPU. That's just ridiculous and a waste of time.

Again, I really side with you on wanting to support the developers, but when you buy the game you are ultimately voting "yes" on the continued use of SecuROM.

Well expressed...exactly my sentiments...and I'll pass on this game.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Renob

Enjoy playing your limited activation shit in a dvd case games that you paid good cash for.

OH I will and just an FYI I have never run into a problem with running out of activations!!!

You can enjoy missing out on many very good games.

Right, because limited activations have been around long enough for there to be real problems. The issue to me isn't the game I just paid for. It is the one I feel nastalgic about and install on my computer a few years down the road, only to find out I can't activate it properly to actually play it.

 

[Red Storm]

Originally posted by: Maximilian
Oh and FYI if you read the first line of my two line post, you would realise i will be missing out on nothing.

So... what you're saying is that you won't be missing out on any of these DRM-infested games because you'll be stealing them?

Piracy is theft. Always. The bullshit line "Just because someone pirated it doesn't mean they would pay for it otherwise." is just a lousy attempt to justify stealing something that costs money. If you are against a game's DRM mechanism, be a man and vote with your wallet. It's sad seeing pirates who think they're some kind of Robin Hood by stealing games.

Yes, the publishers are at fault for not realizing that invasive DRM isn't helping the situation. However, pirates are also at fault for stealing someone else's work. The difference between the two is that one is stupid, and the other is stupid and illegal.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Red Storm

Originally posted by: Maximilian
Oh and FYI if you read the first line of my two line post, you would realise i will be missing out on nothing.

So... what you're saying is that you won't be missing out on any of these DRM-infested games because you'll be stealing them?

Piracy is theft. Always. The bullshit line "Just because someone pirated it doesn't mean they would pay for it otherwise." is just a lousy attempt to justify stealing something that costs money. If you are against a game's DRM mechanism, be a man and vote with your wallet. It's sad seeing pirates who think they're some kind of Robin Hood by stealing games.

Yes, the publishers are at fault for not realizing that invasive DRM isn't helping the situation. However, pirates are also at fault for stealing someone else's work. The difference between the two is that one is stupid, and the other is stupid and illegal.

Didnt say that.

 

[coloumb]

Just curious - how many people actually keep their games for 5+ years? Today's game will look like crap compared to games in 5 years...

And I'm pretty sure in 5 years - you'll be able to buy your favorite drm infested game DRM free via digital download.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: coloumb
Just curious - how many people actually keep their games for 5+ years? Today's game will look like crap compared to games in 5 years...

And I'm pretty sure in 5 years - you'll be able to buy your favorite drm infested game DRM free via digital download.

I do all the time. Sorry that you miss out on all the good games from a few years ago.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: Martimus

Originally posted by: coloumb
Just curious - how many people actually keep their games for 5+ years? Today's game will look like crap compared to games in 5 years...

And I'm pretty sure in 5 years - you'll be able to buy your favorite drm infested game DRM free via digital download.

I do all the time. Sorry that you miss out on all the good games from a few years ago.

Yeah, I'm currently playing Baldur's Gate 2, and some friends and I are planning a NOX LAN.

You know what I love? Console games are being pirated faster than PC games.

Fallout 3
Fable 2
Far Cry 2

ALL are available online for the 360 (but not for the PC. Hmmm where are all these brutal PC pirates??). This whole 'losing sales to PC pirates' thing is UTTER BULLSHIT. Console versions are being pirated more, and earlier, than PC versions, yet developers are moving more and more to consoles. More PC DRM = more people pirating it on consoles.

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
If the revoke system works as stated then that works for me.
Much better than the Crysis Warhead DRM. Just gotta remember to un-install before formatting or playing with hardware.
:thumbsup:

I have to wonder though, what constitutes a system, if that is attached to the mobo, that could cause a problem but at least the revoke system does appear to be a better attempt at working with the customer.

It either looks at hardware config or the OS, or both.

Change a part that is randomly on the list, new machine. Format your computer, reads it as a new OS.

Say the HD dies, your replace the HD and format (1), decide while your at it you'd like a new video card and CPU, video card arrives first so you install it right away (2) then the CPU when you get it (3), oh and you use a laptop (4). 3 system limit right?

Going based off my understanding, if you follow use the revoke system you can effectively limit most problems that PC enthusiasts would encounter. We need the details on what constitutes a system change that counts towards the limit. Maybe I missed the details.

Originally posted by: mindcycle
It's not worth all the potential trouble just to install a stupid game. If this is the way the mainstream PC gaming industry is going, then I may save myself the upgrade hassles and just stick with the games I already have. That and maybe pick up the few titles that don't have SecuROM activation based DRM.

All that's going to happen is legit users will get frustrated and piracy will expand. What a great solution..

At least it's a step that's a little less intrusive. My desire to play this game outweights the potential headaches, I do however agree with you. Any form of DRM is an epic failure.

 

[450R]

Originally posted by: coloumb
Just curious - how many people actually keep their games for 5+ years? Today's game will look like crap compared to games in 5 years...

It's not about how they look in 5 years - if that's all you care about then it's no wonder you don't keep your games for any extended period. It's about how they PLAY, because you don't just LOOK at a game, you PLAY it. Great gameplay never goes out of style, it's just hard to come by these days, which is another reason to hold onto the good ones.

And I'm pretty sure in 5 years - you'll be able to buy your favorite drm infested game DRM free via digital download.

What's your point? Are you suggesting we should buy another copy of a game we already own, or are you saying wait 5 years for a DRM-free version? Both ideas are a little ridiculous, wouldn't you say?

 

[CottonRabbit]

Originally posted by: 450R

Originally posted by: coloumb

And I'm pretty sure in 5 years - you'll be able to buy your favorite drm infested game DRM free via digital download.

What's your point? Are you suggesting we should buy another copy of a game we already own, or are you saying wait 5 years for a DRM-free version? Both ideas are a little ridiculous, wouldn't you say?

He means you can crack the game if you have activation problems in 5 years. Contacting the publisher and getting a manual activation isn't hard either.

I preordered the game and this announcement doesn't surprise me nor change my opinion about my purchase at all.

 

[ultimahwhat]

Originally posted by: coloumb
Just curious - how many people actually keep their games for 5+ years? Today's game will look like crap compared to games in 5 years...

Actually, i've had the urge to play Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (c. 1997) again for quite some time now. Too bad I never got it back from the kid that I lent it to through my friend about 5 years ago.

Also, I just got around to finishing Quake II (c. 1998) for the first time just this past spring.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
If the revoke system works as stated then that works for me.
Much better than the Crysis Warhead DRM. Just gotta remember to un-install before formatting or playing with hardware.
:thumbsup:

I have to wonder though, what constitutes a system, if that is attached to the mobo, that could cause a problem but at least the revoke system does appear to be a better attempt at working with the customer.

It either looks at hardware config or the OS, or both.

Change a part that is randomly on the list, new machine. Format your computer, reads it as a new OS.

Say the HD dies, your replace the HD and format (1), decide while your at it you'd like a new video card and CPU, video card arrives first so you install it right away (2) then the CPU when you get it (3), oh and you use a laptop (4). 3 system limit right?

Going based off my understanding, if you follow use the revoke system you can effectively limit most problems that PC enthusiasts would encounter. We need the details on what constitutes a system change that counts towards the limit. Maybe I missed the details.

Originally posted by: mindcycle
It's not worth all the potential trouble just to install a stupid game. If this is the way the mainstream PC gaming industry is going, then I may save myself the upgrade hassles and just stick with the games I already have. That and maybe pick up the few titles that don't have SecuROM activation based DRM.

All that's going to happen is legit users will get frustrated and piracy will expand. What a great solution..

At least it's a step that's a little less intrusive. My desire to play this game outweights the potential headaches, I do however agree with you. Any form of DRM is an epic failure.

Yea, and if my HD fails on my desktop and I decide to format my laptop but forget to uninstall the game first then I'm * out of luck.

I don't hate the system they are trying to impose on users because I take a moral stand against it, I hate it because I can see it screwing me over is so many ways.

They tried to put a 10 day ET call home on spore but the outcry made them rethink that. Now if we bend over and take it like good little wallets that we are to them we will be getting MUCH MUCH worse DRM that what we have now.

If they want my money they will have to earn it.

-edit-
Oh and did I mention that I bought a gaming laptop because I now work for several months at a time in the middle of no-where with slim to none chance of getting internet access. I take all the CD's and updates (flash drive) needed to format my laptop and reinstall everything if need be, but if running a game means a initial internet connection I'm screwed (or uninstalling to get back a install).

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Yea, and if my HD fails on my desktop and I decide to format my laptop but forget to uninstall the game first then I'm * out of luck.

I don't hate the system they are trying to impose on users because I take a moral stand against it, I hate it because I can see it screwing me over is so many ways.

They tried to put a 10 day ET call home on spore but the outcry made them rethink that. Now if we bend over and take it like good little wallets that we are to them we will be getting MUCH MUCH worse DRM that what we have now.

If they want my money they will have to earn it.

-edit-
Oh and did I mention that I bought a gaming laptop because I now work for several months at a time in the middle of no-where with slim to none chance of getting internet access. I take all the CD's and updates (flash drive) needed to format my laptop and reinstall everything if need be, but if running a game means a initial internet connection I'm screwed (or uninstalling to get back a install).

I'm not supporting the DRM, let's be clear about that. If it doesn't work for you then by all means show the developer your displeasure with your wallet. Many of us have voted with our wallet and will continue to do so.

This time I'm caving.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
I'm not supporting the DRM, let's be clear about that. If it doesn't work for you then by all means show the developer your displeasure with your wallet. Many of us have voted with our wallet and will continue to do so.

This time I'm caving.

If you cave in and buy the game, how is that not supporting DRM?

 

[ultimahwhat]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
I'm not supporting the DRM, let's be clear about that. If it doesn't work for you then by all means show the developer your displeasure with your wallet. Many of us have voted with our wallet and will continue to do so.

This time I'm caving.

If you cave in and buy the game, how is that not supporting DRM?

Maybe it's like paying to have sex for a prostitute. You're doing it to gratify your own sexual desires, not necessarily to support the objectification of women or the spread of certain strains of Neisseria, even though they may be consequences of engaging in the act.

Maybe Oakenfold just wants to satisfy his gaming desire badly enough that DRM becomes a necessary "evil." I can't call that "supporting DRM" in good conscience. That's like calling everyone out for supporting terrorism by filling up our gas tanks...

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
I'm not supporting the DRM, let's be clear about that. If it doesn't work for you then by all means show the developer your displeasure with your wallet. Many of us have voted with our wallet and will continue to do so.

This time I'm caving.

If you cave in and buy the game, how is that not supporting DRM?

As I said before my desire to play this game exceeds my current willpower to say "no to DRM and vote with my wallet ".

Originally posted by: ultimahwhat
Maybe it's like paying to have sex for a prostitute. You're doing it to gratify your own sexual desires, not necessarily to support the objectification of women or the spread of certain strains of Neisseria, even though they may be consequences of engaging in the act.

Maybe Oakenfold just wants to satisfy his gaming desire badly enough that DRM becomes a necessary "evil." I can't call that "supporting DRM" in good conscience. That's like calling everyone out for supporting terrorism by filling up our gas tanks...

:thumbsup:
Summed up quite nicely ultimawhat!
There are some games that I will just have to play, I understand that and accept it.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Oakenfold
As I said before my desire to play this game exceeds my current willpower to say "no to DRM and vote with my wallet ".

Got ya.

 

[tk149]

DRM sucks. I will not be buying this game. Too bad, I actually LIKED Far Cry 1. Even if it was too darn hard.

I've had a bad experience with SecuROM. A friend bought me Star Wars Empire at War and the sequel. It took 4 email exchanges with SecuROM Tech Support over the course of 8 days to get the darn thing working. This was a legitimate retail store-bought game, fresh out of the shrink-wrapped box. And yet, I felt like I was being treated like a pirate.

Can you imagine buying a new microwave and spending 8 days fiddling with the settings before getting it to work? This crap is beyond ridiculous.

I will never buy a SecuROM game. :|

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: 450R

Originally posted by: coloumb
Just curious - how many people actually keep their games for 5+ years? Today's game will look like crap compared to games in 5 years...

It's not about how they look in 5 years - if that's all you care about then it's no wonder you don't keep your games for any extended period. It's about how they PLAY, because you don't just LOOK at a game, you PLAY it. Great gameplay never goes out of style, it's just hard to come by these days, which is another reason to hold onto the good ones.

And I'm pretty sure in 5 years - you'll be able to buy your favorite drm infested game DRM free via digital download.

What's your point? Are you suggesting we should buy another copy of a game we already own, or are you saying wait 5 years for a DRM-free version? Both ideas are a little ridiculous, wouldn't you say?

Oh..I do PLAY the games - and I play them thoroughly which is why I really have no desire to go back through it again - that's just my preference.

My point is this:

People say we'll all be screwed if we want to play games in 5 or more years because the activation servers will all die and the world will come to an end. (Those same people must not be using Windows else they ARE supporting DRM.)

How long as EA been around? How long has Activision been around? How long will Bethesda be around? In one form or another - I suspect all of those gaming companies and more will still be around in 5 years. And I suspect by that time, they will have released a patch which will remove the current DRM [install/activation limit].

Yeah..it sucks having to phone home to be able to use a piece of software - but that seems to be the only method to TRY and cut down on piracy for the average joe schmoe [which there are a lot of] who wants to let 10 of his friends play the same game.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: coloumb
How long as EA been around? How long has Activision been around? How long will Bethesda be around? In one form or another - I suspect all of those gaming companies and more will still be around in 5 years. And I suspect by that time, they will have released a patch which will remove the current DRM [install/activation limit].

Lets hope you're right. Actually, it won't matter to me since I won't be buying any games using SecuROM or activation based DRM any longer. But just like walmart, if it's no longer profitable and they don't have a quick solution to patch the game, they'll just take the servers down and let the chips fall where they may. What does it matter to them if a few people get screwed?

Originally posted by: coloumb
Yeah..it sucks having to phone home to be able to use a piece of software - but that seems to be the only method to TRY and cut down on piracy for the average joe schmoe [which there are a lot of] who wants to let 10 of his friends play the same game.

..and at the same time pretty much killing the used market so we are forced to buy a new copy of any game using this crap. Sounds like these publishers are trying to hurry things up and kill off PC gaming as soon as they can. I guess that makes sense for EA since that means they'll be able to sell more copies of Madden 2012 for the xbox 720 once all those pesky PC gamers are out of the equation.

 

[flashbacck]

Originally posted by: LS8
I guess we won't be seeing FarCry 2 used as a benchmark in any AnandTech reviews... One review would eat up all the installs.

haha, I've never even thought of how this might be a problem for review sites.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: coloumb
Oh..I do PLAY the games - and I play them thoroughly which is why I really have no desire to go back through it again - that's just my preference.

My point is this:

People say we'll all be screwed if we want to play games in 5 or more years because the activation servers will all die and the world will come to an end. (Those same people must not be using Windows else they ARE supporting DRM.)

How long as EA been around? How long has Activision been around? How long will Bethesda be around? In one form or another - I suspect all of those gaming companies and more will still be around in 5 years. And I suspect by that time, they will have released a patch which will remove the current DRM [install/activation limit].

Yeah..it sucks having to phone home to be able to use a piece of software - but that seems to be the only method to TRY and cut down on piracy for the average joe schmoe [which there are a lot of] who wants to let 10 of his friends play the same game.

You are taking such an extreme look at things. Look at how many publishers have failed in the last 5 years. At least half of the publishers that I have bought games from. What makes you think that publishing computer games will be a more viable business over the next five years? Especially in this economy. Look at Atari, they look like they are about a cat scratch away from bankruptcy. Take Two also looks like they are about to croak. When was the last time you bought a Sierra game - the biggest computer game maker when I was growing up. Look at all the developers who have a hard time getting their money from publishers, because the smaller publishers just can't make it. There is good reason to be afraid of publishers or development shops folding up shop, no matter how strong they look now.

 

[Modular]

Alcohol 52%

- Free
- Works with DRM last time I checked

What now, would be pirates?

 

[Slappy00]

Have fun trying to play the game you bought in 5 years when the activation servers go down. I'll be playing my DRM free games like Sins of a Solar Empire and Demigod.

^ this

I still play fallout 2 and all my black isle games. Even though the companies do not exist anymore, a good game doesn't age.

Think today's publishers care if you can play the game 5 years after the launch? Admit it: you are RENTING the game for $50 for an indeterminate amount of time.