Family Values in the NE and the Bible Belt

[BDawg]

Link

The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while the rate for Texas was 4.1.

But don't take the US government's word for it. Take a look at the findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.

The Associated Press, using data supplied by the US Census Bureau, found that the highest divorce rates are to be found in the Bible Belt. The AP report stated that "the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people." The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

Why should they be worrying about homosexuals or Janet Jackson's boob when they're part of the problem with family values and marriage?

 

[Red Dawn]

More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.

That's probably due to only one partner becoming born again and annoying his/her partner so much with their BS that divorce is their only relief.

 

[bozack]

from my own personal experience here in MA the reason the divorce rate is so low is due to the fact that people just plain don't get married that often, I know more here who are either single and older and or wait a very long time to get married whereas when I was in VA/DC there was a much younger married crowd...

 

[PatboyX]

i have noticed what bozack is saying. i ran into a lot more people when living in rural MD/DE who were about my age at the time (18-21) who were getting married. even a few who had been married and were working through a divorce than i know of people who in northern NJ (which is much more densly populated even) that are even considering getting married.
obviously, not a research-based study...but interesting anywho.

 

[wiin]

Slandering the Red States

One obvious problem with the divorce numbers is that they are calculated not as a percentage of marriages, but as a percentage of the population. Thus states like Massachusetts and New York, which have low rates of marriage, show up with similarly low rates of divorce. [This suggests an obvious analogy: if a country has a low birth rate, it will inevitably, some years thereafter, have a low death rate, as well; but this does not mean that it is a safe place to live.] If we calculate divorces as a percentage of marriages, which seems more reasonable, there is no correlation between blue states and red states at all, let alone a 50% increase in divorces in the Bible belt. So this appears to be yet another liberal canard with no basis in fact.

 

[phillyTIM]

yup - the word is out - those relious fundamentalist bible-kissing states are hypocrites - another reason that hypocrite Bush got legions of hypocrites to vote for him.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: bozack
from my own personal experience here in MA the reason the divorce rate is so low is due to the fact that people just plain don't get married that often, I know more here who are either single and older and or wait a very long time to get married whereas when I was in VA/DC there was a much younger married crowd...

Yes, I'm 24 and most of those people I work with who are my age and from red states are already married or engaged to be married. Almost none of my friends back home in California are even thinking about marriage.

Of course this is just anecdotal...but does anyone have figures with real world numbers for marriage ages?

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: wiin
Slandering the Red States

One obvious problem with the divorce numbers is that they are calculated not as a percentage of marriages, but as a percentage of the population. Thus states like Massachusetts and New York, which have low rates of marriage, show up with similarly low rates of divorce. [This suggests an obvious analogy: if a country has a low birth rate, it will inevitably, some years thereafter, have a low death rate, as well; but this does not mean that it is a safe place to live.] If we calculate divorces as a percentage of marriages, which seems more reasonable, there is no correlation between blue states and red states at all, let alone a 50% increase in divorces in the Bible belt. So this appears to be yet another liberal canard with no basis in fact.

I have a different read on the stats. People in the NE who shouldn't be getting married aren't. These same people in the SE are setting a bad example and giving marriage a bad name.

I live in the SE and was married at 23. However, I went through 3 weeks of pre-marrital counseling.

 

[conjur]

Remember this?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

Divorce rates among Christian groups:
The slogan: "The family that prays together, stays together" is often seen. There has been much anecdotal evidence that has led to "unsubstantiated claims that the divorce rate for Christians who attended church regularly, pray together or who meet other conditions is only 1 or 2 percent". 8 [Emphasis ours]. Dr. Tom Ellis, chairman of the Southern Baptist Convention's Council on the Family said that for "...born-again Christian couples who marry...in the church after having received premarital counseling...and attend church regularly and pray daily together..." experience only 1 divorce out of nearly 39,000 marriages -- or 0.00256 percent. 9

A recent study by the Barna Research Group throws extreme doubt on these estimates. Barna released the results of their poll about divorce on 1999-DEC-21. 1 They had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The sampling error is within 2 percentage points. The survey found:

11% of the adult population is currently divorced.
25% of adults have had at least one divorce during their lifetime.
Divorce rates among conservative Christians were much higher than for other faith groups.

George Barna, president and founder of Barna Research Group, commented: "While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages."

According to the Dallas Morning News, a Dallas TX newspaper, the national study "raised eyebrows, sowed confusion, [and] even brought on a little holy anger." This caused George Barna to write a letter to his supporters, saying that he is standing by his data, even though it is upsetting. He said that "We rarely find substantial differences" between the moral behavior of Christians and non-Christians. Barna Project Director Meg Flammang said: "We would love to be able to report that Christians are living very distinct lives and impacting the community, but ... in the area of divorce rates they continue to be the same."

The survey has come under some criticism:

David Popenoe, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University has said that the survey doesn't make sense. He based this belief on his assessment that Christians follow biblical models of the family, making a bond that "the secular world doesn't have...It just stands to reason that the bond of religion is protective of marriage, and I believe it is."
Tom Ellis of the Southern Baptist Convention suggests that the Barna poll is inaccurate because the people contacted may have called themselves born-again Christians, without having previously made a real commitment to God. He said: "We believe that there is something more to being a Christian...Just saying you are Christian is not going to guarantee that your marriage is going to stay together." 9

Some researchers have suggested that religion may have little or no effect on divorce rates. The apparently higher rate among born-again Christians, and lower rate among Atheists and Agnostics may be due to the influence of financial and/or educational factors.

One reason for the discrepancy of beliefs about divorce rates among born-again Christians may be that their churches are unaware of the true number of divorcing couples in their midst.

Many couples would find it difficult to continue attending services in the same congregation after their marital separation; meeting at church would be awkward. So, they drop out.

Many probably find that the climate in their church is very negative towards divorcing couples. So, they move to other congregations that are either more accepting of divorce, or are unaware of their marital status.

Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:
Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate) % who have been divorced
Non-denominational (small groups; independents) 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%

Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. George Barna commented that the results raise "questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families." The data challenge "the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage."

Donald Hughes, author of The Divorce Reality, said: "In the churches, people have a superstitious view that Christianity will keep them from divorce, but they are subject to the same problems as everyone else, and they include a lack of relationship skills. ...Just being born again is not a rabbit's foot." Hughes claim that 90% of divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been "saved."

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

Ron Barrier, Spokesperson for American Atheists remarked on these findings with some rather caustic comments against organized religion. He said: "These findings confirm what I have been saying these last five years. Since Atheist ethics are of a higher calibre than religious morals, it stands to reason that our families would be dedicated more to each other than to some invisible monitor in the sky. With Atheism, women and men are equally responsible for a healthy marriage. There is no room in Atheist ethics for the type of 'submissive' nonsense preached by Baptists and other Christian and/or Jewish groups. Atheists reject, and rightly so, the primitive patriarchal attitudes so prevalent in many religions with respect to marriage."

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.

That's probably due to only one partner becoming born again and annoying his/her partner so much with their BS that divorce is their only relief.

My first thoughts exactly.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
yup - the word is out - those relious fundamentalist bible-kissing states are hypocrites - another reason that hypocrite Bush got legions of hypocrites to vote for him.

yeh... that about sums it up ...

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Yes, I'm 24 and most of those people I work with who are my age and from red states are already married or engaged to be married. Almost none of my friends back home in California are even thinking about marriage.

Of course this is just anecdotal...but does anyone have figures with real world numbers for marriage ages?

Same exact scenerio here B0mbrman, back in DC/VA most everyone before 30 was married, and if they weren't then they were engaged, however many were married before 25 (of the people I knew) and in many cases already divorced....Here in NE it is common for people to be 30+ and never in a serious relationship (again of the people whom I know) and many don't think of marriage until mid 30s....I know in VA people were giving me grief about not being married as I dated my wife for 7 years wheras up here once we got married (I was 27 she was 25) people groaned that we were far far too young and should have waited until we were 33 or so.

 

[bleeb]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.

That's probably due to only one partner becoming born again and annoying his/her partner so much with their BS that divorce is their only relief.

Intresesting

 

[piasabird]

Maybe this is just indicative of a high gay population.

Or how about comparing marriages to the numbers for unwed parents.

You can not get divorced if you never get married.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe this is just indicative of a high gay population.

Or how about comparing marriages to the numbers for unwed parents.

You can not get divorced if you never get married.

Maybe it's indicative of inbred marriages and shotgun marriages in the Red States leading to problems.


IOW, you're spouting off with absolutely no basis for your opinion.

 

[isasir]

Originally posted by: wiin
Slandering the Red States

One obvious problem with the divorce numbers is that they are calculated not as a percentage of marriages, but as a percentage of the population. Thus states like Massachusetts and New York, which have low rates of marriage, show up with similarly low rates of divorce. [This suggests an obvious analogy: if a country has a low birth rate, it will inevitably, some years thereafter, have a low death rate, as well; but this does not mean that it is a safe place to live.] If we calculate divorces as a percentage of marriages, which seems more reasonable, there is no correlation between blue states and red states at all, let alone a 50% increase in divorces in the Bible belt. So this appears to be yet another liberal canard with no basis in fact.

Well I wouldn't call it slander, since it still ties in to the Bible thumping beliefs. Our President supports abstinence. So what does that mean? If you want to have sex (a natural desire), you should get married. So it's no surprise that more ppl. are getting married in these states, then realizing they aren't compatible. Then they become ashamed to divorce, since it's frowned upon in the church, so they become less religious and divorce anyways.

 

[Infohawk]

Silly hypocritical fundy zealots...

 

[Caminetto]

In all honesty, I have known dozens of divorced "born agains" before and after rebirth. The extremely common denominator I have observed firsthand is that they 1) Grew up in a "religious" or "strong ethics" household 2) Were unhappy in their marriage and sought sexual satisfaction elsewhere 3) Were unable to handle the associated guilt and turned to an extreme to cleanse themselves 4) Both new partners become zealous in their self-righteousness and condemnation of others as sinners.
I have seen so much of this; to me it's like robotic behavior. Perhaps it's a mid-western thing.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Here are updated statistics from The Barna Group in regards to divorce rates in the US.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage....&BarnaUpdateID=170

Christians Have Same Incidence of Divorce

Although many Christian churches attempt to dissuade congregants from getting a divorce, the research confirmed a finding identified by Barna a decade ago (and further confirmed through tracking studies conducted each year since): born again Christians have the same likelihood of divorce as do non-Christians.

Among married born again Christians, 35% have experienced a divorce. That figure is identical to the outcome among married adults who are not born again: 35%.

George Barna noted that one reason why the divorce statistic among non-Born again adults is not higher is that a larger proportion of that group cohabits, effectively side-stepping marriage ? and divorce ? altogether. ?Among born again adults, 80% have been married, compared to just 69% among the non-born again segment. If the non-born again population were to marry at the same rate as the born again group, it is likely that their divorce statistic would be roughly 38% - marginally higher than that among the born again group, but still surprisingly similar in magnitude.?

Barna also noted that he analyzed the data according to the ages at which survey respondents were divorced and the age at which those who were Christian accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. ?The data suggest that relatively few divorced Christians experienced their divorce before accepting Christ as their savior,? he explained. ?If we eliminate those who became Christians after their divorce, the divorce figure among born again adults drops to 34% - statistically identical to the figure among non-Christians.? The researcher also indicated that a surprising number of Christians experienced divorces both before and after their conversion.

Multiple divorces are also unexpectedly common among born again Christians. Barna?s figures show that nearly one-quarter of the married born agains (23%) get divorced two or more times.

The survey showed that divorce varied somewhat by a person?s denominational affiliation. Catholics were substantially less likely than Protestants to get divorced (25% versus 39%, respectively). Among the largest Protestant groups, those most likely to get divorced were Pentecostals (44%) while Presbyterians had the fewest divorces (28%).

It would be interesting to see statistics on cohabitation relationships instead of marriage. How long do relationships last among religious vs. non-religious, the frequency of relationships, etc. Of course the religious folks tend to cohabitate less than the non-religious ones but it could still be interesting.

 

[conjur]

Thanks for that updated study, TLC.

Kind of backs up with isasir posted, imo.

 

[DealMonkey]

And this is precisely why I call BS when I hear the evangelicals and religious right spouting off about the "sanctity of marriage." Whomever mentioned the theory that kids in red states taught abstinence and no sex before marriage are more likely to rush into marriage at an early age, hit it right on the head. That "hurry up and get married so I can have sex" attitude is what's skewing the statistics.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
And this is precisely why I call BS when I hear the evangelicals and religious right spouting off about the "sanctity of marriage." Whomever mentioned the theory that kids in red states taught abstinence and no sex before marriage are more likely to rush into marriage at an early age, hit it right on the head. That "hurry up and get married so I can have sex" attitude is what's skewing the statistics.

I have a friend that I work with that screams up and down that gays shouldn't marry and uses the "sanctity of marriage" line as his reasoning. I said what about the nearly 60% divorce rate with heterosexuals, wouldn't they be ruining that "sancity of marriage"? Of course he screamed no....

Keep in mind that he's been married three times with the lengths of those marriages being 1-1/2 years, 4 years and 9 months.

I laughed at him and moved on.

 

[Thump553]

Not a surprise to me. As any married person can tell you, the extent to which a person is intolerant and/or inflexible almost certainly negatively impacts how long their marriage will last.

 

[Moonbeam]

If I believed you had to be married to have sex I'd get married several times a day.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
If I believed you had to be married to have sex I'd get married several times a day.

You still can't marry yourself, though.