Family house renovations, need some help

[EightySix Four]

Ok, so I know quite a bit about electronics, standard consumer level A/V equipment (single room stuff), and computers but this job is a bit over my head. I'd like to use it as an opportunity to learn though.

There is a main house and a pool house. The main house will have 5 televisions, including one media room. The pool house will have one television outdoors and one upstairs. There are 3 surround sound zones in the house, 2 outside (this can be a single zone if it simplifies everything more), and one inside the house. I have 4 DirecTV boxes (two are DVR's for a total of 6 signals) and one media pc running Windows 7 media center which is controlled by an iPad over terminal services. I have three 1 inch thick pvc pipes between the house set aside for speakers/media.

I want to consolidate everything into one rack in a closet and utilize HDMI over ethernet to get audio/video to each tv in the house. I want to use as few remote controls as possible. I'm not sure if the speaker amps should be in the closet or on location, I think on location is probably easier.

I want to be able to play music from the Media Center PC to any and all audio zones, and I want to be able to get video from any of the four sources to any TV. The other hard part that I can not figure out is getting audio off the PC playing over the stereos while watching something different on the TV. Can anyone give me an idea where to start?

I tried signing up for AVS Forum but their registration is disabled.

TIA

 

[vi edit]

Number one question - what is your budget?

Start looking at the Russound CAV6.6
http://www.russound.com/rnet.htm

 

[vi edit]

Another comment...HDMI over ethernet sucks. It's flaky at best by most user accounts and is just a nightmare to get (and keep)working properly.

 

[EightySix Four]

Number one question - what is your budget?

Start looking at the Russound CAV6.6
http://www.russound.com/rnet.htm

Budget is up in the air really, I just have to justify it as something that makes the system as a whole better without being unreasonable.

The Russound is perfect... except it only supports SD video and 2 channel audio. 2 channel is fine outside, but inside there will be multiple surround sound set-ups.

The Russound VM1 does HD and has built in support for component over Ethernet, so that may be the correct route for me to go with the video switching... now I need to figure out the audio switching, which appears to be harder since I have multiple 5.1 systems.

 

[vi edit]

I don't think there is a clean, reliable, and reasonably priced "off the shelf" system that can do what you want.

B&K is one solution for HD video, but it doesn't do digital audio.
http://www.bkcomp.com/products/multi-zone/?tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=23&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=14&cHash=baca0c6f04

I'm sure there's some way you can string something together, but it's not going to be cheap, clean or easy to use. There are too many dependencies.

 

[EightySix Four]

I don't think there is a clean, reliable, and reasonably priced "off the shelf" system that can do what you want.

B&K is one solution for HD video, but it doesn't do digital audio.
http://www.bkcomp.com/products/multi-zone/?tx_ttproducts_pi1%5BbackPID%5D=23&tx_ttproducts_pi1%5Bproduct%5D=14&cHash=baca0c6f04

I'm sure there's some way you can string something together, but it's not going to be cheap, clean or easy to use. There are too many dependencies.

I'm thinking at this point that the main location with surround sound is also the location with the closet, and I could probably set it up where that has connection to the audio system there. The rest can be stereo. Saves hassle and money.

The Russound document center actually has a set-up guide detailing how to accomplish that exact configuration.

 

[Modelworks]

The easiest way to set it up would be something like this to do the switching , it can handle all the formats you need and allows them to be routed however you want including volume and passing of remote signals over the same cables. It is basically an 8x8 switch, 8 inputs to 8 outputs with each one being able to be video, audio, digital or analog.
The main unit
http://www.keydigital.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;ITEM?ItemCode=KDMSCAT8X8&Company=KEY

Wall outlets for each room
http://www.keydigital.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;ITEM?ItemCode=KDVACWPRX&Company=KEY

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6tiZlbeLd0&feature=related

 

[vi edit]

The easiest way to set it up would be something like this to do the switching , it can handle all the formats you need and allows them to be routed however you want including volume and passing of remote signals over the same cables. It is basically an 8x8 switch, 8 inputs to 8 outputs with each one being able to be video, audio, digital or analog. The main unit http://www.keydigital.com/IW_Product...X8&Company=KEY

Yeh, I knew those were out there, but they are like $8,000. And that's without the $350 per plate baluns. He'd have over $10,000 in the system before it was said and done. If not more.

And it still doesn't address a number of his "wants", which are still largely hard to meet. OP *really* needs to put a budget on this and work from there to see what he can get with the budget.

 

[EightySix Four]

Yeh, I knew those were out there, but they are like $8,000. And that's without the $350 per plate baluns. He'd have over $10,000 in the system before it was said and done. If not more.

And it still doesn't address a number of his "wants", which are still largely hard to meet. OP *really* needs to put a budget on this and work from there to see what he can get with the budget.

We are sitting down tonight and getting together a max budget for the whole project and ordering the wants by importance.

Thanks for your help thus far.

 

[Fallen Kell]

You are really going to need a 8x8 matrix audio/video switch, like the following:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=8407

For doing different audio while video is playing at the same time gets a little more complex. You will need each location to have either an audio pre-processor or an A/V receiver (needed anyway if you wish to have surround sound instead of a direct connection from the TV), and you will need to have an audio distribution unit, like the following:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...)&c=Video%20Distribution&sku=718091880406

Then you will want/need to have an I/R distribution network setup for the different locations to allow you to pass a remote control's I/R signal to your distribution room.


You will have issues depending on cable lengths that you need. Really, HDMI over CAT6 has been problematic as noted, and you really get what you pay for in the terminals. These end terminals where it converts from HDMI<->CAT6 also need to be powered, so an outlet is required. For long runs over 30meters, you really want to be using HDMI over fibre, but these are not cheap (expect to pay $1000 for 150 feet), and you need to worry about installation so that you do NOT crimp the cable or bend it more that the specifications allow for in a certain amount of distance (like a 90degree bend needs to use XXinches of cable).

 

[electroju]

A better way is use an ATSC/QAM modulator. Then all you need to do is change to the channel on the TV. This means you can wire up all the TV with out having additional devices to setup and rely on them. The cable that you will be using will be regular TV coaxial cable, so the installation is simple. Using HDMI over Ethernet may not be reliable. Since they state 150 feet on paper, they are more like 75 feet. You can use Bluetooth or WiFi to change the channels with the iPad if the TV can be control from RS-232 or by Ethernet. Controlling consumer equipment using infrared is not reliable, so select devices that can be controlled from RS-232, Ethernet, or USB. Some consumer equipment that are controlled from infrared have a proprietary signal, so using IR Blaster may not work.

If you want a cheaper, another way is to setup six streaming servers that uses DLNA. Then use the TV to access the DLNA server. Instead of using DLNA, you could use separate computers for each TV.

There is no way of getting out of the TV remote chaos. You still need a TV remote.

The ATSC/QAM modulator will be the easiest, but it is not easy on the wallet. Using a 6 streaming server will be the most complicated setup because there are more devices to screw up.

Yes, you can have separate amplifiers, but try to use balance audio cable for long cable runs. You are most likely need a surround sound processor that handle multi-zones. AV receivers could be used too, but finding a good one that handles a lot of zones will be a problem. The closet is OK if it is air conditioned.

 

[EightySix Four]

I've ordered some HDMI over ethernet set-ups and going to test each of them next week. If one works out, Fallen Kell's hardware suggestions should do what I want and is priced right.

 

[vi edit]

I was thinking the same as the last two guys in that you'd need an AVR or processor in each location that wants surround sound/decoding.

And at that point you've already broke the "consolidated equipment" rule. From there I'd just go with the networked Direct TV DVR solution where you can share the DVR content across multiple devices. Keep the Dish receivers local to the TV and not even worry about the matrix unless you feel like being able to switch the video is absolutely necessary. If you mainly want it for the DVR content, I think the network option is better, personally. Especially for the cost.

When it comes to audio sharing, the Russound CAM6.6 will get you full meta data on the keypads and you can use the CAV.exe on your media PC to grab music, or grab a squeezebox or Sonos system that you can control from the Ipad. You can use the pre-outs on the Russound amp to run to the receivers in the seperate zones for music and let them do the amplifying. That lets you use the keypads/remotes for music control, but you still get the option of having a surround setup in the areas that need it. You'd just have to flip the input source on the receiver in that area.

I don't have infinite buckets of money available, so I would just have a hard time justifying the costs of the setup you want for a limited amount of additional features.

With the setup I describe, you'd have to pay Direct for possible hardware upgrades for networked DVR (no clue on cost), the Russound box ($1800 on Ebay), and AVR's for the locations that need them ($600 each for pretty nice setups).

 

[EightySix Four]

7 xbox 360 media center extenders = $1400

Easier to just send everything from the one computer.

 

[vi edit]

Be sure to check the limitation on media extenders. I think it's 4 concurrent connections.

 

[EightySix Four]

Be sure to check the limitation on media extenders. I think it's 4 concurrent connections.

That is my point, it is easier to have the video just sent from the computer to the TV, especially since all of the movies are uncompressed ISO's than it is to have a box at each end.

 

[Modelworks]

If I had to do it as cheap as possible:

Dune HD Smart D1 Media player $260 per room - stream all the content at its default format over Cat5
http://store.duneplayer.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=12

USB3 HDMI /component capture for each input source $200
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/
The reason for going with an external capture device is because it will offload some of the work from the pc.

PC server to store content and forward it to users - $2k
Has to support USB3.0 and have plenty of storage space, output video card doesn't matter since all content is streamed.

The pc would basically be a file server with the dune boxes being the actual interface to the content.

 

[EightySix Four]

If I had to do it as cheap as possible:

Dune HD Smart D1 Media player $260 per room - stream all the content at its default format over Cat5
http://store.duneplayer.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=12

USB3 HDMI /component capture for each input source $200
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/
The reason for going with an external capture device is because it will offload some of the work from the pc.

PC server to store content and forward it to users - $2k
Has to support USB3.0 and have plenty of storage space, output video card doesn't matter since all content is streamed.

The pc would basically be a file server with the dune boxes being the actual interface to the content.

That's actually a pretty awesome method of setting this up, but I don't trust software to run it all for 10 years with no issues. I'd prefer to have equipment made to do it so that I don't have to deal with computer patches, crashes, viruses, etc.

 

[Modelworks]

That's actually a pretty awesome method of setting this up, but I don't trust software to run it all for 10 years with no issues. I'd prefer to have equipment made to do it so that I don't have to deal with computer patches, crashes, viruses, etc.

If you operate the computer as a server with only the applications that you install from the start then it is no different than other hardware that would do the task. Updates and patches are not needed because nothing will be changing on the box and viruses are no concern because it will not be used for browsing or installing anything new. Even the commercial solutions for that are just the same thing in rack mount form.