False flag to provoke war with Iran

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JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,925
2,908
136
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is Hersh's source for this?

I am sure someone privy to this type of information is dying to tell someone as anti-administration as Hersh all the gritty details.

BTW Hersh is a joke. Didn't he claim we were going to attack Iran 2 or 3 years ago???
If Hersh was posting on P&N he'd probably end up sounding a lot like Dave.

Hersh is a pulitzer prize winner and is one of the preeminent investigative journalists in the world. So no, he's not a joke.

He said that we wanted to attack Iran, and that we had troops on the ground in Iran prepping targets. Interestingly enough, while the administration denied plans to attack Iran (of course they did) they have never denied having troops on the ground in there.
Al Gore is a Pulitzer Prize winner too. Seems they don't mean that much these days.

Hersh's bland, skin & bone servings of innuendo and un-named sources is getting pretty old. As PJ said, he's been yammering about Iran for 3 years now and we're no closer to invading them now than we were then.

You and Projo were willing to invade Iraq on less evidence than Sy Hersh has presented Re; Iran.

I laugh at you :)
He who laughs last, laughs best, as the old saying goes. I'm laughing at people like Hersh and you who have allowed their partisan rhetoric to get the best of them and are too ignorant to recognize it. At least you don't indulge in the complete and total public idiocy that Hersh does. Likely though that's because nobody knows, or cares, who the fuck you are.

Again, didn't you buy into flimsier evidence to support the debacle in Iraq?

So, in addition to being hypocritical, you are stupid :)

Apparently Sy Hersh has the magical ability to read books from the future. That's how he knows so much. Don't you wish you had similar magical powers.

So did all the moron Democrats that you keep voting for, and you're STILL trying to keep them in power. Who's stupid now?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is Hersh's source for this?

I am sure someone privy to this type of information is dying to tell someone as anti-administration as Hersh all the gritty details.

BTW Hersh is a joke. Didn't he claim we were going to attack Iran 2 or 3 years ago???
If Hersh was posting on P&N he'd probably end up sounding a lot like Dave.

Hersh is a pulitzer prize winner and is one of the preeminent investigative journalists in the world. So no, he's not a joke.

He said that we wanted to attack Iran, and that we had troops on the ground in Iran prepping targets. Interestingly enough, while the administration denied plans to attack Iran (of course they did) they have never denied having troops on the ground in there.
Hersh may have one the award, but since then his predications have been perfect failures.

But of course, since he exposes such plans, they are then cancelled.

Up to this point, he has been completely wrong on Iran - maybe he is self serving?
Yeah his track record is about as good as Bush and Cheny's on Iraq.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: JD50

So did all the moron Democrats that you keep voting for, and you're STILL trying to keep them in power. Who's stupid now?

Difference is, the Dems supported the UN inspectors getting back in and avoiding war if possible, while the Republicans kicked *out* the inspectors and started the war.

Funny thing is, the Bush lie used to sell the force authorization was actually a policy that worked, it got the inspectors back in with adequate cooperation from Saddam.

But inspectors back in finding no WMD was not what the Bush administration wanted. War is, despite all the lies Bush told saying otherwise.

They had a plan, they were quite unable to run the government and make the plan work, and it ended up far from what they expected.

Hundreds of Iraqis killed, millions displaced out of homes and refugees out of Iraq later, the price of their screwup is clear, even if you favored overthrowing Saddam.

It's likely they could have actually done all this with a lot more success - little things like not throwing out the State Department's careful planning, not trying to force Chalabi on them...
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
[
Uhh.. a Pulitzer means next to jack shit as it's nothing more than a prize handed out by the libs at Columbia University, plus it was almost 40 years ago. Whoopdedoo :roll: He's really just a hack now...a washed up has-been trying to get into the light one last time.

Irony of the week award.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
[
Uhh.. a Pulitzer means next to jack shit as it's nothing more than a prize handed out by the libs at Columbia University, plus it was almost 40 years ago. Whoopdedoo :roll: He's really just a hack now...a washed up has-been trying to get into the light one last time.

Irony of the week award.

Likewise for you trying to make an issue of it... :roll:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Oh christ this old bag of bones? This guy destroyed his own credibility long ago. Remember he said we would invade Iran by June of 05. And continues on this story line to this day when it is clear we lack the political will power to do anything of the sort.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh christ this old bag of bones? This guy destroyed his own credibility long ago. Remember he said we would invade Iran by June of 05. And continues on this story line to this day when it is clear we lack the political will power to do anything of the sort.
What he didn't take into account was how much Bush screwed his own credibility with his actions in Iraq, so much so that there was almost nothing Bush and Cheney could do to convince the American Public to support any military action they wanted to take against Iran.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh christ this old bag of bones? This guy destroyed his own credibility long ago. Remember he said we would invade Iran by June of 05. And continues on this story line to this day when it is clear we lack the political will power to do anything of the sort.
What he didn't take into account was how much Bush screwed his own credibility with his actions in Iraq, so much so that there was almost nothing Bush and Cheney could do to convince the American Public to support any military action they wanted to take against Iran.

And he appears to continue to make that mistake to this day.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh christ this old bag of bones? This guy destroyed his own credibility long ago. Remember he said we would invade Iran by June of 05. And continues on this story line to this day when it is clear we lack the political will power to do anything of the sort.
What he didn't take into account was how much Bush screwed his own credibility with his actions in Iraq, so much so that there was almost nothing Bush and Cheney could do to convince the American Public to support any military action they wanted to take against Iran.

And he appears to continue to make that mistake to this day.
I hear ya.

 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
I'm sure that he is glad to have been wrong every time on this issue. I know that I'm glad that he was.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
I think its important to understand how a long term journalist operates. We have to remember Hersh has been at it for a long time and his first big scoop was Mei Lei. Since then, Hersh has developed a large number of friendly sources in the departments of State, defense, and other relevant parts of the Federal Government. And anytime some big policy move occurs, it will be noticed by one of Hersh's sources. For example, when the CIA started greatly expanding the number of personnel devoted to just Iranian matters, that will be duly noted by employees and some will inform Hersh. Knowing exactly what these CIA employees are being assigned to do may be less clear. In the case of the thread topic, a meeting to discuss ways to create a false flag against Iran, I tend to believe such a meeting took place, none of Hersh's sources were directly in the meeting, but they heard about it in the general inter office gossip. And journalistic rules require just multi independent source conformation of the reports.

In the case of the Israeli incursion into Lebanon, that according to Hersh was a pre planned Cheney brainfart. What Hersh was pointing out was that it was a dry run for a later invasion of Iran based on the belief that the general population of Lebanon would support Israel as they liberated them from Hezbollah terrorists. And in the same way the Iranian youth would welcome being liberated from the rule of Iranian mullahs. As we all know, that thinking was proved wrong in Lebanon, Hezbollah support inside of Lebanon almost tripled, but another piece of Cheney type stinking thinking got discredited.

A while back, Common Courtesy basically proposed the hypothesis that Hersh's blowing the whistle effectively stopped the plans, and I basically think its far more complex than that. I think Hersh is 100% correct in his reporting that Cheney is doing all he can to drum up a war with Iran while whispering in the ear of GWB, that he will be a failed President if he does not launch a major attack on Iran by the end of his term. And what stops Cheney more than anything else is simply the reality that a bungled occupation of Iraq has made any attack of Iran almost 100% unrealistic.

And because GWB&co has some 170 days left, we will continue to have elements of our own Federal Government becoming increasing desperate to brew up a war with Iran. Here we bitterly complain elements of the Pakistani ISI may be aiding the Taliban, how horrible, yet when we have elements in our own Federal Government basically trying to brew up more wars, we try to kill the messenger in Hersh.

Hersh only gets snippets of information here and there and has to use partly guess work to piece things together, but on balance, he has done a pretty excellent job reporting on what Cheney abd our neocons are up to. Hersh is exactly why our founding fathers respected and encouraged the power of a free press.

And with patriots like Dick Cheney, we sure do not need any enemies, because his little actions have already got our country into enough problems already.
In my mind, people like Cheney and Rumsfeld have a direct role in causing 911, they always see the short term benefits of their little manipulations that get hundreds of thousands of other people killed, but they almost always come back to bite the American people.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I'm sure that he is glad to have been wrong every time on this issue. I know that I'm glad that he was.

Are you glad my prediction of the Sun not rising in the East has been correct everyday of your life? Give me my pulitzer please! :D
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,069
55,594
136
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is Hersh's source for this?

I am sure someone privy to this type of information is dying to tell someone as anti-administration as Hersh all the gritty details.

BTW Hersh is a joke. Didn't he claim we were going to attack Iran 2 or 3 years ago???
If Hersh was posting on P&N he'd probably end up sounding a lot like Dave.

Hersh is a pulitzer prize winner and is one of the preeminent investigative journalists in the world. So no, he's not a joke.

He said that we wanted to attack Iran, and that we had troops on the ground in Iran prepping targets. Interestingly enough, while the administration denied plans to attack Iran (of course they did) they have never denied having troops on the ground in there.
Al Gore is a Pulitzer Prize winner too. Seems they don't mean that much these days.

Hersh's bland, skin & bone servings of innuendo and un-named sources is getting pretty old. As PJ said, he's been yammering about Iran for 3 years now and we're no closer to invading them now than we were then.

Oh he did? I've never heard of this. What did he win it for, and when? (FYI this is yet another one of those cases where you don't know what you're talking about.)

In addition, Hersh has generally been saying that we were going to bomb Iran, not invade them and in his pieces he has said that the order to do so had not been given yet and so things could change. It's pretty clear that significant factions within the administration DO in fact favor military action against Iran, and so these ideas are credible.

He's an excellent journalist, responsible for exposing My Lai and Abu Ghraib. That's two more major stories then most investigative journalists get in a lifetime.

Then again you're TLC, Renowned Middle Eastern Expert. Then again maybe you're an expert like John McCain is, he seems to have difficulty differentiating between Sunni and Shia too.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I'm sure that he is glad to have been wrong every time on this issue. I know that I'm glad that he was.

Are you glad my prediction of the Sun not rising in the East has been correct everyday of your life? Give me my pulitzer please! :D

Considering your prediction is not based on anything that a single human or a very small group of humans can change at almost any moment....

Me thinks that you give yourself too much credit and don't really understand the concept of scale or proper analogies.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I'm sure that he is glad to have been wrong every time on this issue. I know that I'm glad that he was.

Are you glad my prediction of the Sun not rising in the East has been correct everyday of your life? Give me my pulitzer please! :D

Considering your prediction is not based on anything that a single human or a very small group of humans can change at almost any moment....

Me thinks that you give yourself too much credit and don't really understand the concept of scale or proper analogies.

Oh christ lighten up francis.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
How credible is this? We know tha tin the cold war the government had real plans to drum up national support for an invasion of Cuba using deception along these lines, one I recall being to blow up an airliner but that doesn't mean this is legit.
 

dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
1,627
45
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
How credible is this? We know tha tin the cold war the government had real plans to drum up national support for an invasion of Cuba using deception along these lines, one I recall being to blow up an airliner but that doesn't mean this is legit.

That was Operation Northwoods a now declassified top secret US government document. The US also planned to blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame it on Cuba.

http://www.waketheflockup.com/IMAGES/northwoods11.gif

http://www.waketheflockup.com/...html?q=northwoods.html
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is Hersh's source for this?

I am sure someone privy to this type of information is dying to tell someone as anti-administration as Hersh all the gritty details.

BTW Hersh is a joke. Didn't he claim we were going to attack Iran 2 or 3 years ago???
If Hersh was posting on P&N he'd probably end up sounding a lot like Dave.

Hersh is a pulitzer prize winner and is one of the preeminent investigative journalists in the world. So no, he's not a joke.

He said that we wanted to attack Iran, and that we had troops on the ground in Iran prepping targets. Interestingly enough, while the administration denied plans to attack Iran (of course they did) they have never denied having troops on the ground in there.
Al Gore is a Pulitzer Prize winner too. Seems they don't mean that much these days.

Hersh's bland, skin & bone servings of innuendo and un-named sources is getting pretty old. As PJ said, he's been yammering about Iran for 3 years now and we're no closer to invading them now than we were then.

You and Projo were willing to invade Iraq on less evidence than Sy Hersh has presented Re; Iran.

I laugh at you :)
He who laughs last, laughs best, as the old saying goes. I'm laughing at people like Hersh and you who have allowed their partisan rhetoric to get the best of them and are too ignorant to recognize it. At least you don't indulge in the complete and total public idiocy that Hersh does. Likely though that's because nobody knows, or cares, who the fuck you are.

Again, didn't you buy into flimsier evidence to support the debacle in Iraq?

So, in addition to being hypocritical, you are stupid :)

Apparently Sy Hersh has the magical ability to read books from the future. That's how he knows so much. Don't you wish you had similar magical powers.

So did all the moron Democrats that you keep voting for, and you're STILL trying to keep them in power. Who's stupid now?


So I should vote for republicans because some democrats went along with the large mass of republicans?

I have read stupid statements from you before, but this is otherworldly.



And Chicken: So, you admit that the bush case was flimsy? And don't mind at all?

There is a term for people like you: DOUCHEBAG.

-----------------------------------------
Uncalled for - No personal attacks/flames

See you in a week

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Also: Didn't Sy break the abu gharaib story?

Another stupid line of nonargument sinks down the well.
 

cirrrocco

Golden Member
Sep 7, 2004
1,952
78
91
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
What is Hersh's source for this?

I am sure someone privy to this type of information is dying to tell someone as anti-administration as Hersh all the gritty details.

BTW Hersh is a joke. Didn't he claim we were going to attack Iran 2 or 3 years ago???
If Hersh was posting on P&N he'd probably end up sounding a lot like Dave.

Hersh is a pulitzer prize winner and is one of the preeminent investigative journalists in the world. So no, he's not a joke.

He said that we wanted to attack Iran, and that we had troops on the ground in Iran prepping targets. Interestingly enough, while the administration denied plans to attack Iran (of course they did) they have never denied having troops on the ground in there.
Al Gore is a Pulitzer Prize winner too. Seems they don't mean that much these days.

Hersh's bland, skin & bone servings of innuendo and un-named sources is getting pretty old. As PJ said, he's been yammering about Iran for 3 years now and we're no closer to invading them now than we were then.

You and Projo were willing to invade Iraq on less evidence than Sy Hersh has presented Re; Iran.

I laugh at you :)
He who laughs last, laughs best, as the old saying goes. I'm laughing at people like Hersh and you who have allowed their partisan rhetoric to get the best of them and are too ignorant to recognize it. At least you don't indulge in the complete and total public idiocy that Hersh does. Likely though that's because nobody knows, or cares, who the fuck you are.

Are you talking about yourself?