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Fallujah II -- The Destrucion of al Qaim

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Aug 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: BBond
No use trying to enlighten the residents of animal house. Those here or in the White House.

If you can't accept reality the least you could do is stop acting like juveniles. Or are you emulating your leader?

Ah, so reality is only what you believe is right.

And George W. Bush isn't more of a leader to me than he is to you and many other people. I dislike him and your extremism gives you a 'You're either with me or with Bush' attitude! Perhaps you just have ridiculous arguments, conclusions, and statements instead of me being a Bush lover.

:laugh:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: BBond
No use trying to enlighten the residents of animal house. Those here or in the White House.

If you can't accept reality the least you could do is stop acting like juveniles. Or are you emulating your leader?


That sounds like a threat to leave the msgboard.


 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: BBond
No use trying to enlighten the residents of animal house. Those here or in the White House.

If you can't accept reality the least you could do is stop acting like juveniles. Or are you emulating your leader?


That sounds like a threat to leave the msgboard.

So leave.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Did you learn that from the satellite images?
Read up on Dahr Jamail. He's been there to report on what the U.S. media isn't allowed to.

He's a political activist according to Znet. *shrug*

I read his diatribe on Fallujah - needless to say I'm not impressed with his "journalism".
I mean every "journalist" would use this sort of description - no?
Meanwhile the snipers continue to harass the city, the collective punishment continues...
...
No one among the occupiers seems to have considered the obvious alternative to siege, instigation and aggression: maybe the U.S. military, as part of the negotiations, should leave the residents of Falluja alone. Why shouldn?t the U.S. lay down their own ?heavy weapons?? Or cease the home raids, detentions of innocents, military patrols of neighborhood streets. Or cease allowing mercenaries to drive through the city? Or maybe U.S. soldiers should offer themselves up to be searched by the mujahedeen before entering Falluja, as the residents of Falluja are now searched, complete with being forced to show identification?
:roll:
The guy is a joke.

CsG

Maybe I should read this at the DU forums instead? :laugh:

Nah, why go there when you can read it here are DUlite? :laugh:

CsG
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Did you learn that from the satellite images?
Read up on Dahr Jamail. He's been there to report on what the U.S. media isn't allowed to.

He's a political activist according to Znet. *shrug*

I read his diatribe on Fallujah - needless to say I'm not impressed with his "journalism".
I mean every "journalist" would use this sort of description - no?
Meanwhile the snipers continue to harass the city, the collective punishment continues...
...
No one among the occupiers seems to have considered the obvious alternative to siege, instigation and aggression: maybe the U.S. military, as part of the negotiations, should leave the residents of Falluja alone. Why shouldn?t the U.S. lay down their own ?heavy weapons?? Or cease the home raids, detentions of innocents, military patrols of neighborhood streets. Or cease allowing mercenaries to drive through the city? Or maybe U.S. soldiers should offer themselves up to be searched by the mujahedeen before entering Falluja, as the residents of Falluja are now searched, complete with being forced to show identification?
:roll:
The guy is a joke.

CsG

Maybe I should read this at the DU forums instead? :laugh:

Nah, why go there when you can read it here are DUlite? :laugh:

CsG

There is depleted uranium lite in P&N??? :shocked:

Has Bush declared war on us too?

I didn't even know we had WMD...
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
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An update on "Operation Matador". :roll:

And another "I told you so."

Marine-led campaign killed friends and foes, Iraqi leaders say

By Hannah Allam and Mohammed al Dulaimy

Knight Ridder Newspapers

BAGHDAD, Iraq - When foreign fighters poured into villages with jihad on their minds and weapons in their hands, some Iraqi tribesmen in western desert towns fought back.

They set up checkpoints to filter out the foreigners. They burned down suspected insurgent safe houses. They called their fellow tribesmen in Baghdad and other urban areas for backup.

And when they still couldn't uproot the terrorists streaming in from Syria, tribal leaders said, they took a most unusual step: They asked the Americans for help.

The U.S. military hails last week's Operation Matador as a success that killed more than 125 insurgents. But local tribesmen said it was a disaster for their communities and has made them leery of ever again assisting American or Iraqi forces.

The battle, which pitted some Iraqi tribes against each other, underscored the complex tribal politics that compound the religious and ethnic tensions plaguing Iraq.

In interviews, influential tribal leaders and many residents of the remote border towns said the 1,000 U.S. troops who swept into their territories in the weeklong campaign that ended over the weekend didn't distinguish between the Iraqis who supported the United States and the fighters battling it.

"The Americans were bombing whole villages and saying they were only after the foreigners," said Fasal al Goud, a former governor of Anbar province who said he asked U.S. forces for help on behalf of the tribes. "An AK-47 can't distinguish between a terrorist and a tribesman, so how could a missile or tank?"

Al Goud was the only tribal leader who spoke on the record. Two others reached by phone in western villages expressed similar views, but said they didn't want their names published because the foreign insurgents were still holding some of their tribesmen hostage.

Long before the American offensive, trouble had been brewing in and around the town of Qaim. Two Iraqi tribes, the Albu Mahal and the Albu Nimr, resented the flood of foreign Islamic extremists who were crossing the border and trying to turn their lands into an insurgent fiefdom.

Like the fighters in the formerly insurgent-controlled city of Fallujah, also in troubled Anbar province, the foreigners brought a puritanical brand of Islam and began intimidating villagers who refused to follow their commands, residents said. The foreign fighters found followers among some members of another large tribe in the area, the Karabla.

Although there were small-scale clashes among the tribes for months, the killing of a popular soldier from the Albu Mahal tribe early this month escalated the violence, according to several accounts of the unrest that preceded Operation Matador.

Sunni Muslim clerics in Baghdad were asked to intervene, but the bloodshed continued: Houses were razed, men from both sides were killed, and the governor of the province was kidnapped with his son.

The Albu Mahal, with the help of the larger Albu Nimr, formed a vigilante group called the Hamza Forces to help keep the foreign fighters at bay. Those forces, which included some men suspected of attacking U.S. troops in the past, began battling the religious radicals known as Salafis, who were allied with Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the Jordanian leader of the group al-Qaida in Iraq.

"Hamza Forces are mostly from the Albu Mahal and they are said to be from the resistance," said Youssef Lahij, a tribesman and shopkeeper in Qaim. "They're the ones fighting now against the Salafis."

The Salafis replenished their ranks with a new batch of recruits who crossed over from Syria. Zarqawi's group, known locally as Tawhid and Jihad, flew its trademark black banners in local villages, antagonizing the residents.

The overwhelmed villagers were at a loss to defeat the better-armed and better-funded foreigners and their allies from the Karabla. With nowhere else to turn, tribal leaders decided to call the Iraqi Defense Ministry.

That's when al Goud, the former Anbar governor and a sheik of the Albu Nimr, said he called American officials at the Marine base Camp Fallujah to ask for help. Al Goud had met the officials during the siege of Fallujah, he said.

Bruska Nouri Shaways, Iraq's deputy defense minister, at first couldn't believe the request for help from the traditionally rebellious province. Shaways, who took several calls from tribal sheiks, said he immediately alerted the U.S military about their willingness to share information on Zarqawi followers.

"They said, `We are citizens of Qaim and we are now being attacked by non-Iraqi people coming from Syria,'" Shaways said. "Until this time, they had never asked the Iraqi or the American forces to help them. It's a good sign."

The American military already had planned a campaign to cleanse the Qaim area of foreign fighters, according to the military. With the calls from sheiks, it appeared they had the support of prominent local tribes for the offensive.

Tribesmen said they evacuated women and children to outlying camps and stuck around to set up checkpoints and prevent the foreign fighters from escaping to neighboring villages.

Operation Matador began with the Marines sweeping into the Qaim area in armored vehicles, backed up by helicopter gunships. They pummeled suspected insurgent safe houses, flattening parts of the villages and killing armed men. Nine Marines died in combat and 40 were wounded, according to the military.

When the offensive ended, however, angry residents returned to find blocks of destruction. Men who'd stayed behind to help were found dead in shot-up houses. Tribal leaders haven't counted their dead; several families hadn't yet returned to the area.

"We ran away because you didn't know who was fighting who," said Ahmed Mohammed, who works at a hospital north of Qaim. "Americans were fighting. The Albu Mahal were fighting. And Tawhid and Jihad were fighting."

Capt. Jeff Pool, a Marine spokesman in Iraq, confirmed that Iraqi informants contributed to intelligence gathering for Matador but said there was no effort by the U.S. military to incorporate local tribes in its assault plans. He said he couldn't verify that al Goud or others had contacted Marine officers at Camp Fallujah.

"We have no knowledge of any local efforts" to reach out to the military before the operation, he said in an e-mail response to questions.

Pool also said in his e-mail that American officers were aware of fighting among local forces before the Marines moved in.

"Three days before Operation Matador kicked off, Marines in Qaim observed 57 mortar rounds exchanged between two groups," he wrote. "None of the mortars were directed at the Marines or any other coalition force. We don't know who was firing at who or why."

Pool and other military spokesmen didn't respond to questions about whether U.S. troops had tried to contact any of the feuding forces in the area.

Deputy Defense Minister Shaways said it was extremely difficult to distinguish friend from foe in the midst of battle. He called Operation Matador a success, but acknowledged that some tribal leaders were upset by it. He said tribal leaders were expected to travel to Baghdad this week to discuss the aftermath of the campaign.

Still, he said, vigilante justice doesn't fit into the new Iraq, even when the cause appears just. He said the Defense Ministry would reach out to the embattled tribesmen and attempt to recruit them for Iraq's nascent security forces.

"We cannot allow anyone who feels he's not secure to just set up checkpoints and kidnap people," Shaways said. "This is not the Wild West."
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Fallujah II -- The Destrucion of al Qaim
?The Americans do not hit the gunmen; they hit the houses of civilians.?


You rekkin we will get some pics this time?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81


It could be in the Bible, they still wouldn't believe it. :(

As a Republican, and a Christian, I am ashamed. It's so sad that people cannot see the forest from the trees.

Getting rid of the terrorists in al Qaim? The only ones there are our military. Tanks, bombs dropped from planes, wtf is all that? Terrorism. Shock and awe, terrorism.

We are less than a decade away from seeing a US city disappear. The thought is mind-boggling, to us that is. To some in Iraq, it's the past, and it's reality.
 

drewshin

Golden Member
Dec 14, 1999
1,464
0
0
Thanks for that article BBond.

Although their intentions were good, the military leadership there manages to bungle yet another mission.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: drewshin
Thanks for that article BBond.

Although their intentions were good, the military leadership there manages to bungle yet another mission.

You're welcome Drewshin. Just to prove my point about Bush's apparent obsession with turning all of Sunni Iraq into Fallujah, here's another update.

Kaboom! How to enrage Iraq's Sunnis

By Fred Kaplan
Posted Wednesday, May 18, 2005, at 2:04 PM PT

The most dismaying thing I've read in a while is a Page One story in the May 17 Philadelphia Inquirer, by staff reporters Hannah Allam and Mohammed al Dulaimy, headlined, "Iraqis Lament a Call for Help." If you want to know why we're not winning in Iraq, and why we're not likely to win anytime soon (if ever), there is no more brutally illustrative tale.

The story concerns Operation Matador, last week's clash between U.S. forces and foreign jihadists in the desert villages of western Iraq. Officials have portrayed the operation as a grand success. Allam and Dulaimy depict it as a grave disaster.

For months, they report, Iraqi tribal leaders in the area had formed a vigilante group called the Hamza Forces to stave off the Islamic extremists streaming across the Syrian border. Outnumbered, at least three of the tribal chiefs asked the Iraqi defense ministry and the U.S. Marines for help.

Rather than respond in a coordinated fashion, U.S. forces blazed in with armored vehicles and helicopter gun ships and simply pummeled the place. Fasal al-Goud, a former governor of Anbar province and one of the sheiks who had asked for assistance, told the Inquirer, "The Americans were bombing whole villages, and saying they were only after the foreigners."

Villagers who returned after the fighting were stunned to find entire neighborhoods destroyed. Men who had stayed behind to help were found dead in shot-up houses. Over 100 jihadists were killed, but so were a lot of Iraqis fighting on the side of the Americans, to say nothing of several bystanders caught in the crossfire.

Fasal al-Goud now says he regrets calling for help. Allam and Dulaimy heard confirming accounts and similar sentiments from two other tribal leaders, who asked not to be named because the jihadists (who, it seems, weren't expelled entirely) are still holding some tribesmen hostage.

This story is depressing in two ways, beyond the obvious horror of needless death and destruction. First, a number of encouraging news stories have appeared recently? including a column in today's Washington Post?about a surge of creative, new thinking inside the U.S. military: a revival of counterinsurgency doctrines, training in small-arms tactics, instruction in Arab languages and culture, and so forth. Yet, at least in the short term, nothing seems to be changing. From Fallujah to Ramadi and now to the desert villages around Qaim, our commanders ultimately fall back on the big kaboom. Leveling towns, bombing every suspicious target in sight?this is not how hearts and minds are won or how persistent insurgencies are defeated.

Second and more disheartening still, U.S. officials have realized for some time now that a crucial strategic task in this war must be to separate Iraq's Sunni nationalists from the jihadist fighters in their midst. Most nationalists despise the U.S. occupation, but many also resent the jihadists, whose presence they tolerate either out of fear or as (in their bitter, dispossessed eyes) the lesser evil. The trick for American policymakers is, 1) to distinguish the nationalists from the jihadists (the passive abetters from the active enemy); 2) to drive a wedge between them; and 3) to kill and defeat the latter without alienating the former.

Operation Matador offered a golden opportunity to try out both categories of new thinking: a) smarter counterinsurgency tactics that b) distinguish and separate the nationalists from the jihadists. Here was an unusual, perhaps unique, case of real Sunni tribal leaders asking us to come in and help them fight the common enemy. And we bungled it by confusing victory with mere firepower and by brushing aside?not even consulting with?a serious group of aspiring allies.

This failure is all the more appalling given that the interim Iraqi government is in shambles?and the prospects for a free and democratic Iraq are uncertain, at best?in large part because of growing sectarian splits among the country's three main ethnic groups: Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. The Sunnis, who comprise (or shelter) the most lethal factions of the insurgency, are demanding a greater share of power in the central government. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made a trip to Baghdad last week to urge the predominantly Shiite leaders to satisfy this demand for the sake of stability. It's generally accepted these days that merely killing insurgents creates more insurgents and that a peaceful settlement will come about, if at all, only after a political settlement.

And yet, here comes the U.S. military, roaring across the western deserts, strafing and shelling anyone with a gun and everything all around him. In short, Operation Matador was a double-whammy of old thinking: kaboom, kaboom, kaboom?and in a way that alienated precisely the people we should be assuring. Maybe Fasal al-Goud and the Hamza Forces won't go so far as to join the insurgency. But it's unlikely now that they'll keep up their resistance, consider the Americans as their friends, or?more devastating?see the Iraqi politicians in Baghdad as their government.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Villagers who returned after the fighting were stunned to find entire neighborhoods destroyed. Men who had stayed behind to help were found dead in shot-up houses. Over 100 jihadists were killed, but so were a lot of Iraqis fighting on the side of the Americans, to say nothing of several bystanders caught in the crossfire.

Fasal al-Goud now says he regrets calling for help. Allam and Dulaimy heard confirming accounts and similar sentiments from two other tribal leaders, who asked not to be named because the jihadists (who, it seems, weren't expelled entirely) are still holding some tribesmen hostage.

This story is depressing in two ways, beyond the obvious horror of needless death and destruction. First, a number of encouraging news stories have appeared recently? including a column in today's Washington Post?about a surge of creative, new thinking inside the U.S. military: a revival of counterinsurgency doctrines, training in small-arms tactics, instruction in Arab languages and culture, and so forth.
That says it all right there. The ideologues led our troops into a war they knew they would win handily but gave little or no thought to securing the country after it was overrun. These ideologues *truly* believed all of Iraq would greet us with kisses and flowers. They *truly* believed that! That's I-N-S-A-N-E!!!

Ah, here's the article I was looking for:

Colonel finds respect works
Reaching out to religious, tribal leaders leads to less fighting
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/printDS/26834.php
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Do you have any satellite photos and a satellite imaging education?

Do you have anything to add or are you here just to be the embodiment of your avatar?
I'm just wondering if there are any satellite images and a satellite imaging expert around. Last time we found out where one could get such an education so maybe someone will step up.
:D
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Villagers who returned after the fighting were stunned to find entire neighborhoods destroyed. Men who had stayed behind to help were found dead in shot-up houses. Over 100 jihadists were killed, but so were a lot of Iraqis fighting on the side of the Americans, to say nothing of several bystanders caught in the crossfire.

Fasal al-Goud now says he regrets calling for help. Allam and Dulaimy heard confirming accounts and similar sentiments from two other tribal leaders, who asked not to be named because the jihadists (who, it seems, weren't expelled entirely) are still holding some tribesmen hostage.

This story is depressing in two ways, beyond the obvious horror of needless death and destruction. First, a number of encouraging news stories have appeared recently? including a column in today's Washington Post?about a surge of creative, new thinking inside the U.S. military: a revival of counterinsurgency doctrines, training in small-arms tactics, instruction in Arab languages and culture, and so forth.
That says it all right there. The ideologues led our troops into a war they knew they would win handily but gave little or no thought to securing the country after it was overrun. These ideologues *truly* believed all of Iraq would greet us with kisses and flowers. They *truly* believed that! That's I-N-S-A-N-E!!!

Ah, here's the article I was looking for:

Colonel finds respect works
Reaching out to religious, tribal leaders leads to less fighting
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/printDS/26834.php

The U.S. will learn the same lesson the Brits learned in Iraq earlier in the 20th Century. It took the Brits 35 years. I wonder how long it will take us to learn? It's taken over 2 years for just one U.S. Colonel to figure it out. :(
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Just posted this in the Plenty of Trouble thread but it's certainly more apropos here:

http://www.bushflash.com/y2.html



Not only was that very disturbing espically with that very powerful Cash song (one of my favorites.) but I am in it too right before the end! (a shot of delores park march on the 2 year anniversery) -this whole thing is so terrible
How could america be part of this nightmare? When will the peaceloving people stop this?
All I can say is I am very sorry my country is doing this. We are not all like these people.
If it was up to me we would have stopped the government years ago.
Now the beast rages and consumes humanity across the world unchecked :(
I think I am going to go back to the WTC site for a bit alone to meditate and cry a bit.
I saw the site for the first time yesterday and I could not look into the hole through the tears. I tried not to let my girlfriend see though.
She is in San Francisco gathering what bits of our life are not burned today.
Burned like the hole in the ground of a place I enjoyed hanging out at when i was a teen.
Like my friends who were in there. Like the people in that video who have become victims of blind revenge in this country.
Thanks for the link Conjur.
rose.gif
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Shiites and Sunnis demonstrated against the U.S. occupation on Friday. Does the U.S. military realize how volatile the situation is in Iraq? What will they do if all of Iraq breaks out in violence like it did in the Spring of 2004?

Shiites, Sunnis Protest U.S. Presence

By ABDUL HUSSEIN AL-OBEIDI

NAJAF, Iraq (AP) - Thousands of Shiites, many waving Islam's holy book over their heads, protested the U.S. presence in Iraq on Friday after the detention of several supporters of a radical cleric, while Sunnis shut down places of worship elsewhere in a show of anger over alleged sectarian violence against the minority.

The U.S. military also launched what it said would be an aggressive investigation into how a British newspaper got pictures of an imprisoned Saddam Hussein clad only in his underwear, saying the photos violated military guidelines and possibly the Geneva convention on the humane treatment of prisoners.

The photos, which appeared on the front pages of the British tabloid Sun and the New York Post and were broadcast across the Middle East by some Arab satellite networks, were expected to fuel anti-American sentiment among supporters of the former dictator who are believed to be the driving force behind the country's insurgency.

The Shiite protests in the southern cities of Najaf, Kufa and Nasiriyah, came as Iraq's Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari announced that he will visit Syria, which has been accused of harboring insurgents bent on starting a civil war in Iraq.

The protests, which drew an estimated total of 6,000 demonstrators in the three cities, followed radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's call Wednesday to reject the U.S. occupation of Iraq by painting Israeli and American flags on the ground outside mosques to be stepped on in protest raids against holy places.

In violence elsewhere, a suicide bombing targeting the house of Iraqi national security adviser, Mouwafak al-Rubaie, killed two civilians and wounded three in the Baghdad neighborhood of Kazimiyah, police said.

After the explosion, gunmen in the nearby Azamiyah area opened fire at a U.S. base in Kazimiyah on the western side of the Tigris River, witnesses said. The gunmen later fled, they added. Witnesses reported seeing U.S. Apache attack helicopters firing rockets into the neighborhood.

A U.S. soldier also was killed early Friday in a vehicle accident caused by roadside bomb attack near Taji, 10 miles north of Baghdad, the military said. At least 1,628 members of the U.S. military have died since the Iraq war started in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

Al-Sadr's call for protests was made a day after U.S. and Iraqi forces detained 13 of his supporters during a raid on a Shiite mosque in Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad. Iraqi troops confiscated weapons from the mosque.

Al-Sadr, a burly, black-bearded cleric, launched two uprisings against U.S. forces in Baghdad and Najaf in April and August last year, then went into hiding before surfacing on Monday to demand that U.S.-led forces withdraw from the country.

"From this platform, we warn the government not to fight the al-Sadr movement because all the tyrants of the world could not beat it," Hazim al-Araji, the imam of a mosque in Kufa during Friday;s sermon. "We say to the government do not be a tyrant like Saddam or (former interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad) Allawi."

In the Shiite holy cities of Najaf and Kufa, al-Sadr followers painted American and Israeli flags on most streets near mosques before stepping on them.

"Down, down Israel; down, down USA," chanted protesters following midday prayers at a Kufa mosque.

In Nasiriyah, 200 miles southeast of Baghdad, al-Sadr supporters clashed with guards at the headquarters of Dhi Qar provincial governor, Aziz Abed Alwan.

The fighting broke out before noon as about 2,000 members of al-Sadr's al-Mahdi Amy marched toward the cleric's local office, which is near the governor's headquarters.

Armed men guarding the headquarters shot toward the crowd in an apparent bid to disperse it, prompting retaliatory fire from al-Sadr supporters. Four policemen and four civilians were wounded, as were nine al-Sadr supporters, said Sheik al-Khafaji, an official at al-Sadr's Nasiriyah office.

Sunni clerics also delivered fiery sermons in Baghdad and Ramadi, in the volatile Sunni Triangle in western Iraq, repeating a call from three of Iraq's most influential Sunni organizations for the places of worship to be shut for three days to protest alleged Shiite violence against them.

One of those organizations, the Sunni Muslim Association of Muslim Scholars, on Wednesday accused a Shiite militia of allegedly killing Sunni clerics _ a charge the group denied.

Shiites, who make up 60 percent of Iraq's 26 million people, were oppressed under Saddam, then emerged from the Jan. 30 elections with the biggest bloc in the National Assembly. They have allied with Kurds, who also were oppressed by Saddam, but have included Sunnis in the government in an effort to ease the minority's discontent over losing power.

The photos showed Saddam standing in his white underwear while holding what appeared to be a brown pair of trousers. In others, he is clothed and seated on a chair doing some washing. The Sun said it obtained the photos from "U.S. military sources."

The U.S. military in Baghdad said in a statement that the photos, which were believed to have been taken more than a year ago, violated its guidelines "and possibly Geneva convention guidelines for the humane treatment of detained individuals."

U.S. military spokesman Staff Sgt. Don Dees said an investigation was launched Friday as soon as the military discovered the existence and use of the photographs.

Saddam, who was captured in December 2003, is being held by the U.s. military at an undisclosed location believed to be in the Iraqi capital. He faces charges including killing rival politicians during his 30-year rule, gassing Kurds, invading Kuwait in 1990 and suppressing Kurdish and Shiite uprisings in 1991. No trial dates have been set.

Aside from U.S. soldiers, those who have access to the toppled dictator include his legal team, prosecuting judge Raed Johyee and officials of the International Committee of the Red Cross.

ICRC Middle East spokeswoman Dorothea Krimitsas said use of such photos is "clearly forbidden" and U.S. forces are obliged to "preserve the privacy of the detainee."

In Turkey, al-Jaafari said Iraq would not tolerate foreign fighters crossing the porous desert frontier that separates his country from Syria.

"We will visit Syria some time soon, and one of the issues that will be taken up will be the security file and the prevention of such infiltrations," he said.

A U.S. official said Wednesday that Syria was the site of a key meeting last month in which lieutenants of Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi were ordered to carry out more attacks in Iraq. More than 520 people have been killed since the country's new Shiite-dominated government was announced April 28. Damascus has not commented on the allegations.

In another development, Iraq and Iran issued a joint statement blaming Saddam and other members of his regime for being the military aggressors in the 1980-88 war between both countries and Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, which led to the 1991 Gulf War.

The statement, issued Thursday during Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi's historic trip to Iraq, comes as the Shiite-dominated governments of both countries try to forge better ties following Saddam's ouster two years ago.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
And what is your solution to the problem.

Hindsight is not an excuse. What should be done now.

Hold the liars accountable would be a good start? What's your solution?