http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...eda-related-takeover-fallujah-call-situation/
Looks like we didn't leave properly. Another Obama failure?
Looks like we didn't leave properly. Another Obama failure?
Last edited:
Fallujah falls to Al Qaeda
- Thread starter compuwiz1
- Start date
Still wouldn't be our problem mo matter who was elected, as we'd be out because of a non-acceptable (to US) security agreement. So it's more like, Thanks WhoeverCurrentPOTUSIs.
But I do agree with you, not our problem. People from Iraq, after a few more hundred years of social progression has gone on in the ME, will be horrified at their missed opportunities and the consequences coming from those misses.
Chuck
But I do agree with you, not our problem. People from Iraq, after a few more hundred years of social progression has gone on in the ME, will be horrified at their missed opportunities and the consequences coming from those misses.
Chuck
Well, we were Mission Accomplished in putting Saddam out of power, which is clearly what the Mission Accomplished moment was about. Missions change as conflicts progress...
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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That only happens when the civilians in charge allow it to happen. If we want better results in conflicts we need to manage how we do conflicts better. Politicians want to be re-elected, they do what they must to ensure that happens. We're not going to get better Politicians until we elect them, and then of course, ensure they know they will allow our military to do what needs to be done to actually win, i.e., not allow reporters, not think we're going to turn around a country who isn't demoralized in 5 Starbucks minutes, not do it for nothing, etc.
Here's a job for our military: Put them on our invaded southern border and lock that down with force...like, the work they should have been doing all along.
Here's a job for our military: Put them on our invaded southern border and lock that down with force...like, the work they should have been doing all along.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
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So that problem is taken care of. Good, we don't have to spend another trillion dollars and a waste a few thousand more lives. What a relief.
Spungo
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2012
- 3,217
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Working as intended. When doing any kind of forecasting, it's important to include something known as a fudge factor. A fudge factor is an arbitrary piece of data that is added for the sake of improved forecasting. Example: I think I can get to the store in 20 minutes, but things never go as planned, so I'll give myself 45 minutes to get to the store. Even though the 45 minute estimate is arbitrary, it's probably more accurate than my initial number of 20 minutes.
In the case of government, we know for a fact that government programs often accomplish the exact opposite of the stated goal. Example: policing the world to improve American security actually reduces American security because terrorism is a direct result of meddling in the affairs of others. People in government are aware of this. Most of them are literate, most of them have at least a 4 year degree, and many of them have common sense. After doing government stuff for 10 or 20 years, government people start to include this fudge factor when making policy decisions. The best way to make the middle east as unstable as possible would be to have a stated goal of bringing stability to the middle east. This whole thing is designed to fail. It's going exactly as planned. You need to have more faith in our government's ability to achieve the goals that it doesn't state.
I'm happy to see the stances most of you have taken so far. I, personally, think we need to stay the hell out of ME affairs and let them continue to take care of themselves as they have for thousands of years. None of their lives are worth us losing any of ours. What I do see here is that when Obama told us AQ was on the run, he didn't really know what he was talking about, or it was a typical deception of his.
Too late, ACA passed. It unfortunately is going to be with us far far far longer than Iraq was.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
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Except ACA will save lives instead of wasting them. Too bad Bush didn't use the Iraq war money to do it earlier. Tens of thousands of people could have been saved if he did.
Bush had bigger problems on his plate than people who need to buy cell phones instead of pay for their insurance, he had a war to fight with people killing our civilians. Bush's fault was not that he fought the war, but how he managed it. Or, more specifically, how he managed the people managing it. He did a horrible job there.
The Dems and Obama have, and ultimately had, no such problems. Nearly all the hard decisions, progress/failure, capabilities, and cost had been done by Bush. What the Dems, after 2 years controlling Congress before Obama even was elected, and thus fully prepared for the incoming Messiah in terms of agenda, needed to do was pass UHC - nuke style. If that meant they had to go nuclear against some unwilling Dems that were more moderate, then really, so be it. They failed. They spectacularly failed. Their failure will (and really, already has) cost more lives than Iraq+Afghanistan ever cost us. It will dwarf that, by orders of magnitudes.
Comparing these two failures isn't even close: While Bush managed poorly and cost us a small few thousand military lives, plus $1-$3T depending how you look at it, the Dems and Bummer by their weakness and 'OMG lets pass something so Bummer will have an accomplishment and We'll look good too!' strategery have F'd our entire civilian population long term. Que the irony of the Thanks Obama! memes being applied here...
UberNeuman
Lifer
- Nov 4, 1999
- 16,937
- 3,087
- 126
The troops are out. So, no. It's up to the people of Fallujah to get up off their asses and protect themselves....
Unless you're okay with more Americans dieing to defend them....
feralkid
Lifer
- Jan 28, 2002
- 16,878
- 4,989
- 136
Hey, I'm not saying it was a good thing. From a national impact perspective though, for what was taken (and could have been held/transformed), a few thousand military lives is a pittance. Obviously to those people, and their family/friends, it's not a pittance but the world.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
It was a pointless waste. We destabilized Iraq and sacrificed our efforts in the only legitimate area of operation, Afghanistan. I'm no Obama fan, but the damage he may have done is trivial compared to Bush, who sent us backwards in so many ways that only decades passing will undo the harm. The sheer waste of it all is repulsive.
I would think this would be a learning lesson about nation building. But I suspect we wont learn and will make the same mistakes again.
highland145
Lifer
- Oct 12, 2009
- 43,973
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Late to the game, sens, but no one is stopping you from sending your extra wealth to the IRS. You and Warren. They're in need.
Definitely not Obama's fault..
This one's on W.
It would have been better if we didn't start mucking around over there.
Saddam kept Iran in check;now there's no one to do that, save Israel.
Basically what Hayabusa said..
This one's on W.
It would have been better if we didn't start mucking around over there.
Saddam kept Iran in check;now there's no one to do that, save Israel.
Basically what Hayabusa said..
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