Fallout 3 will stink like Deus Ex 2.

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i guess you still don't understand my point
... or don't want to

I'M not getting YOUR point. . . hmph, give me a break, you did anything BUT poke RPGers with a stick, I get YOUR point, its not that hard, you can't care less, as long as you get what you want, the rest of the gaming community can fvck off for all you care.

What ever it take in order for you to play in the fallout universe the way you like to, even if that means destroying what a lot of people think is one of the best computer gaming franchise, it couldn't bother you less, the idea that Bethesda can make a the game the game you want a spin-off without needlessly destroying that franchise isn't worth your time, you just don't care.

No apoppin, it YOU who don't want to understand other people point of view, because YOU don't care, you don't have the honesty to say YOU don't care, it always "MOST gamers" that don't care not you. :roll:

But thats not enough, not for YOU, you even justifying Bethesda decision, and with the weirdest argument at that -

if we waited for a "true" fallout3 we would NEVER see it[period] as it is not commercially viable

WE... - where the hell did that come from?

...waited for a "true" fallout3... - News flash, people have waited for more then 5 years, and if you where actually part of of the "we" you would know they are willing to wait another five years until obsidian will get a bit more stable financially, so they can buy the IP, and among Fallout fans its common knowledge that obsidian wants to make it, but no, the great apoppin has spoken, its Bethesda or bust, [period], and the fact the the great apoppin just happens to be a great oblivion fan doesn't have anything to to with it. :roll:

...as it is not commercially viable" - the great apoppin has spoken again, only the great apoppin knows (without any links or other resources, he is that great) what is or isn't commercially viable.

YOU ARE THE SPIN MASTER. What's next, will you start recommending to people to buy oblivion or fallout3 because its a good investment? ;raise eyebrow:

 

[PsharkJF]

So let's review:

A dead gaming franchise gets picked up and dusted off.
Hardcore fans complain.
First look of the game is released.
Hardcore fans complain.
More about the game is released.
Hardcore fans complain.

One of the funnier nuggets was on NMA where some poster said: "Bethesda could corner the 2D isometric game market"

With, of course, the next logical question being: "What isometric game market?"

All this debacle really shows is just how many hardcore gamers should never be game designers.

edit: As for rpgcodex and NMA, I think the correct phrase to describe them would be: "Echo Chamber"

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kobymu

Originally posted by: apoppin
i guess you still don't understand my point
... or don't want to

I'M not getting YOUR point. . . hmph, give me a break, you did anything BUT poke RPGers with a stick, I get YOUR point, its not that hard, you can't care less, as long as you get what you want, the rest of the gaming community can fvck off for all you care.

i was right .. you *don't* get my point

What ever it take in order for you to play in the fallout universe the way you like to, even if that means destroying what a lot of people think is one of the best computer gaming franchise, it couldn't bother you less, the idea that Bethesda can make a the game the game you want a spin-off without needlessly destroying that franchise isn't worth your time, you just don't care.

actually, you are the *elitist* who want to have a game no one wants to make and no one will play - except for a few diehard fans who remembers the game as "pure". You also want to stop a possible GotY because you ALREADY have you mind made up it will suck

No apoppin, it YOU who don't want to understand other people point of view, because YOU don't care, you don't have the honesty to say YOU don't care, it always "MOST gamers" that don't care not you. :roll:

that IS what i am saying about *you*

But thats not enough, not for YOU, you even justifying Bethesda decision, and with the weirdest argument at that -

if we waited for a "true" fallout3 we would NEVER see it[period] as it is not commercially viable

WE... - where the hell did that come from?

the *same place* you get your "we" - THOUSANDS of gamers are looking forward to Bethesda's F3 and it will be a commercial success

...waited for a "true" fallout3... - News flash, people have waited for more then 5 years, and if you where actually part of of the "we" you would know they are willing to wait another five years until obsidian will get a bit more stable financially, so they can buy the IP, and among Fallout fans its common knowledge that obsidian wants to make it, but no, the great apoppin has spoken, its Bethesda or bust, [period], and the fact the the great apoppin just happens to be a great oblivion fan doesn't have anything to to with it. :roll:

your opinion - the minority opinion - duly noted

...as it is not commercially viable" - the great apoppin has spoken again, only the great apoppin knows (without any links or other resources, he is that great) what is or isn't commercially viable.

YOU ARE THE SPIN MASTER. What's next, will you start recommending to people to buy oblivion or fallout3 because its a good investment? ;raise eyebrow:

[/quote]Sure, Bethesda stock would be a great idea if it were traded publicly - as an investment - they are hot ... not DEAD like your vision of Fallout3

and all you do is complain - Zero constructive anything ... yet Fallout3 IS coming ...and there is nothing you can do - but pick on my PoV. Make your own damn fallout game so we can be impressed

 

[EvilComputer92]

Umm, do these fans seriously want fallout 3 to be isometric?

 

[Wheelock]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
That $5.75 million would be better spent on some decent writers and voice-over people.

The Fallout smiley guy is worth every penny IMHO.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
Umm, do these fans seriously want fallout 3 to be isometric?

Yep. 1999-level 2D sprite-based graphics.

I've played FO1-2 twice each, plus FOT:BOS, and I'd have agreed with them a few years ago. Since then I've played KOTOR 1-2, Neverwinter 1-2, and Vampire: Bloodlines, all decent to excellent 3D RPGs.

Since it can be done and done well, I'd rather have the deeper immersion of a 3D world than live in the past with 2D sprites.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: kobymu
:laugh: Bethesda - a game company you can trust.

"Fantasy, for us, is a knight on horseback running around and killing things"


Yes that does sound a great deal like Oblivion.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
i was right .. you *don't* get my point

Is that so?

actually, you are the *elitist* who want to have a game no one wants to make and no one will play - except for a few diehard fans who remembers the game as "pure". You also want to stop a possible GotY because you ALREADY have you mind made up it will suck

You can keep saying all you like but it would not make it anymore true.

that IS what i am saying about *you*

I would love to hear an explanation to that, where did I ask for a beloved action game franchise to be made a TB game.

the *same place* you get your "we" - THOUSANDS of gamers are looking forward to Bethesda's F3 and it will be a commercial success

WTF, YOU ARE BASICALLY CONFORMING WHAT I JUST SAID, I speak for myself, stop presenting YOUR OPINION as that of others, since when have YOU waited for Fallout3? Please... :roll:

your opinion - the minority opinion - duly noted

NOW we are getting some where, as long as RPGers are the MINORITY, its ok to take every RPG franchise and turn it into an FPS/action game.
I'm glad we have you real opinion out in the open, it helps make sense of everything you said in regard to computer games, btw what RPG franchise would you also like to be made an action game next? Or is it the wish of the great apoppin to remove these nasty communists games of the face of the computer indestry.

I what it takes to make games the great apoppin will like, is to make all RPGers turn around and bend over, that is the price that RPGer must pay, it is the great apoppin wish

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
Umm, do these fans seriously want fallout 3 to be isometric?

A. what wrong with ISO? just about every 4X game has it.
B. you do know the sims2 is ISO?
C. diablo is ISO, WoW is ISO, baldur's gate is ISO, NWN is ISO, PS:T is ISO.
D. the original Fallout and Fallout2 is ISO.

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: kobymu

Originally posted by: EvilComputer92
Umm, do these fans seriously want fallout 3 to be isometric?

A. what wrong with ISO? just about every 4X game has it.
B. you do know the sims2 is ISO?
C. diablo is ISO, WoW is ISO, baldur's gate is ISO, NWN is ISO, PS:T is ISO.
D. the original Fallout and Fallout2 is ISO.

WoW and The Sims 2 are not isometrically projected. They are 3D and the models are 3D. Isometric projection involves visual illusion. If you looked at the other half of Wow/TS2, you would still see the image, just at a different perspective. If you looked at the other half of Fallout and the other games you listed (not sure about NWN or PS:T), you would see that there is nothing there; what you are looking at in the straight camera is all there is. Fallout is just drawn to look like it has depth; it truly doesn't. 4X games like Civ 4/Gal Civ 2 are also not isometric; if you rotated the image, it would still have depth.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
WoW and The Sims 2 are not isometrically projected. They are 3D and the models are 3D. Isometric projection involves visual illusion. If you looked at the other half of Wow/TS2, you would still see the image, just at a different perspective. If you looked at the other half of Fallout and the other games you listed (not sure about NWN or PS:T), you would see that there is nothing there; what you are looking at in the straight camera is all there is. Fallout is just drawn to look like it has depth; it truly doesn't. 4X games like Civ 4/Gal Civ 2 are also not isometric; if you rotated the image, it would still have depth.

While technically you are correct, I'm referring to ISO as a perspective. you can call it bird eye view, perspective projection, 3/4, pseudo-isometric,whatever. You may not know this but according to some interviews fallout3 will be made an FPS.

http://play.tm/story/12231

You can definitely play the game without ever going into V.A.T.S., and if you do, the combat is pretty similar to other first/third-person RPGs, like Deus Ex, or stat-based action games like No One Lives Forever

Deus Ex and No One Lives couldn't be farther away from Fallout, these are action games, not RPGs, Fallout isn't an action game but what Bethesda is making is still being consider an R.P.G, even though they are saying themselves it's a stat-based action games(!).

Calling it fallout3, is like calling Wow - WC 4, it's a completely different game in the same universe, it's not a sequel.

/edit
here is another one: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21125.html

 

[Wheelock]

Originally posted by: Shadowknight
You can only do so much with a console. Why cripple a good computer game so you can "double dip" and sell to the console crowd?

You answered the question yourself. I think of it like this: certain PC games would never be made were they not also made for consoles. Better to have Oblivion, Morrowind, and Fallout 3 than not to have them at all. Multiple-platforming is not always bad, anyway. Thief: Deadly Shadows wasn't perfect, but still a lot of fun.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kobymu

NOW we are getting some where, as long as RPGers are the MINORITY, its ok to take every RPG franchise and turn it into an FPS/action game.
I'm glad we have you real opinion out in the open, it helps make sense of everything you said in regard to computer games, btw what RPG franchise would you also like to be made an action game next? Or is it the wish of the great apoppin to remove these nasty communists games of the face of the computer indestry.

I what it takes to make games the great apoppin will like, is to make all RPGers turn around and bend over, that is the price that RPGer must pay, it is the great apoppin wish

every RPG franchise?

not what i said ... nothing at all about communist games

and you still don't get my point at all and are just ranting and raving

the fact is that Fallout3 IS coming, it IS being made the way bethesda wants ... and i really think it is funny they way you are trying to wage your one-man war in your mindless angry attack on me

you appear to be the only one who cares about the "purity" of your series ... i AM looking forward to Fallout3 .. the game we would never see otherwise ... outside your fevered fantasies

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: kobymu
:laugh: Bethesda - a game company you can trust.

"Fantasy, for us, is a knight on horseback running around and killing things"


Yes that does sound a great deal like Oblivion.

Heh, indeed.
If it was actually the original Fallout gang that made F3, and turned it into an "action RPG", I'd at least be hopeful that they're doing it for a good reason, and trying to make the best of it.
Beth...whatever seems more like the MTv of game makers.
Punch out games with as much commercial appeal as possible on as many platforms as possible to get the most cash possible, story lines, franchises, etc be damned.
Yeah, if it wasn't obvious, Oblivion sucked big time imo.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Planescape is by far my favorite RPG of all time, but that is because the story was interesting and the game world was very unique.

It comes down to time spent on a given goal. If you spend 6 years building your 3D engine, you leave very little time for things such as good story. Also, the better the graphics become, the more difficult things are to create (oddly enough). IE, In a text game, I can say a guy blew up a building. In a 2D game, I might have been able to blow up a building with a few animated sprites. Along comes 3D, and now I need to work out all the physics and geometry to allow a building to blow up. It becomes a massive task.

Why am I explaining all this? Very simple, if Planescape had Oblivions engine, they never would have had the time to dedicate to such an amazing story, atmosphere or dialog. The expression is somethings got to give. Granted, Bethesda has the engine already built, the problem is their engine has some obvious limitations that we saw in Oblivion, such as the radiant AI that everyone makes fun of.

On top of all this, Bethesda, as a game developer, has certain weaknesses. They've never been able to design good solid combat or stories.

Originally posted by: PsharkJF
One of the funnier nuggets was on NMA where some poster said: "Bethesda could corner the 2D isometric game market"

With, of course, the next logical question being: "What isometric game market?"

There may not be any genres called the "2D isometric market". But there is one very, very powerful genre called SRPG. Suikoden 5, Disgaea 1 and 2, Final Fantasy Tactics, Fallout are all examples of it. The SRPG (Strategy RPG) is not a dead genre. And even if it were a dead genre, there is nothing wrong with targetting a dead genre. Penny-Arcade's game has the balls to target an otherwise dead genre called "Adventure". The Dreamfall game last year was a pretty big success and it also targeted the dead genre of "Adventure" games. This is one of the most dead genres in existence.

The best thing is, there are a ton of people who think you have to "go FPS or bust" these days. I used to think this way back in the 90s but eventually I grew out of my FPS obsession and realized that every genre has its strengths and weaknesses. I still love FPS games, but realize I don't want every series to go there.

If someone had asked me, whether I wanted Fallout to be more like Quake or more like Silent Storm, I'd definitely choose Silent Storm which is a great example of a computer based SRPG game done in 3D (with fully deformable environments).

 

[Wheelock]

Grand Theft Auto went from top-down to free-look-3D perspective. Everything worked out just fine.
Final Fantasy went from 2D sprites to 3D/prerendered. Everything worked out just fine.

There's not always a happy ending (see Street Fighter EX), but at least we know that Bethesda will be trying their very best not to look like they screwed up the franchise. There is a gun to their head on this one, sort of.

 

[Wheelock]

Originally posted by: Skacer
Also, the better the graphics become, the more difficult things are to create (oddly enough). IE, In a text game, I can say a guy blew up a building. In a 2D game, I might have been able to blow up a building with a few animated sprites. Along comes 3D, and now I need to work out all the physics and geometry to allow a building to blow up. It becomes a massive task.

I'd say that the punishment in this department is much more severe early on in a console's generation cycle.

/shameless armchair developer

 

[Skacer]

The difference between those examples and Bethesda is that Bethesda is taking a known IP (Fallout 3) and shaping it to a pre-existing 3D engine (Oblivion's). As opposed to something like GTA, where the developers worked tirelessly to develop an engine that supported everything that the 2D version of GTA was. And Final Fantasy, which changed very, very little as it moved from 2D to 3D. It is only now, 6 iterations later, that FF12 made the full step to 3D, and with a truely unique style of gameplay that finally fit their game into a 3D world properly. You could say they took a good deal of care making sure it worked the way they wanted it to.

 

[trance247]

These guys are too good to mess this up. Their impressive list of games and popularity among gamers should not leave anyone in doubt about F3. Besides would you rather it died with Black Isle? I wonder if they would let anyone use that van buren engine they made before their fallout heh

 

[MagicConch]

Bethesda made horrible Star Trek games, ruined Akella's Pirates games, will make horrible Fallout games, and will continue to screw up basically anything they do besides Elder Scrolls b/c they are a one trick pony and are not capable of making any other type of game well (I don't even think Oblivion was much more than a big virtual play pen w/ a lame story thrown in too keep you interested)

This will be worse than when Celine Dion covered that AC/DC song.

 

[Slappy00]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
It's not about 2D vs. 3D, turn based vs. realtime, or even isometric vs. 3rd person vs. 1st person.

It's about:

"I saw a mudcrab today."

"Horrible creatures."

*snort*

"Have you heard that the Fighters' guild is hiring new members?"

"No."

"Ok."

"Bye."

"Bye."

Time for the Simon Says conversation influence game!

"You don't scare me."

"That's good. How'd it go again?"

"Amazing."

"Don't try to manipulate me."

Time to go poke some level-scaled monsters!

you need to get some mods. Oblivion allows for a ton of user content and I think that Fallout 3 will be the same.

In case you need to know where to get your mods:

clicky for mods

 

[Worthington]

The game itself should rock. Oblivion was weak. Great gfx, poor everything else.

Mods extend the life of the game.. not make it.

 

[StageLeft]

Turns out the game has been well received!

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Turns out the game has been well received!

That's an understatement...

 

[zerogear]

Why revive thread from last year?