Falklands War part 2?

[CanOWorms]

More like the U.S. has patted Argentina on its pointed little head and said, "It's OK. You can have your little claim, and we'll ask the Brits to humor you, too. We won't comment on sovereignty, but we do still recognize that the Brits actually hold the islands".

Yes, the US recognizes that the UK currently hold the islands. That is plainly obvious. But the US backs bilateral talks on sovereignty.

 

[RabidMongoose]

So your argument for Argentinian ownership is that Argentina is the second closest nation?

It is the closest.

Can you please state why you think that the UK has rightful ownership of the Malvinas and please elaborate why you think that the UK has a historical right over Argentina with regard to the Malvinas? I have already detailed my position on this in depth, but I don't believe that a single pro-UK poster has done the same.

Why does the UK colonialist acts supersede that of Argentina's claims when the UK were not the first ones to arrive on the islands (those were natives), were not the first discovers of the islands (those were natives), were not the first European discoverers (Spanish), did not establish the first settlement (French and then acquired by the Spanish)?

 

[monovillage]

This is a very fascinating article on the increasing isolation of the UK in South America. As I've said before, Argentina's political leaders seem quite savvy.

War 'unlikely' in [the Malvinas], but UK could lose regional access

How cool is that, it's the no army argument.

 

[CanOWorms]

How cool is that, it's the no army argument.

Most analysts believe that war won't break out. There's not really an argument there.

 

[WelshBloke]

It is the closest.

Yeah it pretty close. Argentina might have it by a mile or so. :biggrin:

So your rule for the ownership of an island is whoever is the closest nation?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Yeah it pretty close. Argentina might have it by a mile or so. :biggrin:

So your rule for the ownership of an island is whoever is the closest nation?

Not entirely, no.

Can you please elaborate on your position so that I can understand where you're coming from:
Can you state why you think that the UK has rightful ownership of the Malvinas and please elaborate why you think that the UK has a historical right over Argentina with regard to the Malvinas?

Why does the UK colonialist acts supersede that of Argentina's claims when the UK were not the first ones to arrive on the islands (those were natives), were not the first discovers of the islands (those were natives), were not the first European discoverers (Spanish), did not establish the first settlement (French and then acquired by the Spanish)?

 

[WelshBloke]

Not entirely, no.

So what other aspects come into it?

I'd just like to make a list of what you think is valid.

So far:

1) Who's closest.
2) ?

 

[RabidMongoose]

So what other aspects come into it?

I'd just like to make a list of what you think is valid.

So far:

1) Who's closest.
2) ?

Please answer my questions above. I have already provided multiple arguments in support of Argentina.

 

[WelshBloke]

Please answer my questions above. I have already provided multiple arguments in support of Argentina.

Err, I see one point that you've said you agree (partially) with.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Err, I see one point that you've said you agree (partially) with.

I'm not sure why you don't want to discuss your own position with regard to the Malvinas. Why do you think that the UK is the rightful owner of the Malvinas?

I'm going to be stepping away for a bit, but I would appreciate it if you could provide some reasoning soon.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm not sure why you don't want to discuss your own position with regard to the Malvinas. Why do you think that the UK is the rightful owner of the Malvinas?

So by that can we take it that your the only thing thats important to you in ownership of islands it what mainland its closest to?

 

[Nebor]

Only 6 more pages! Keep it up!

 

[KMFJD]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/09/cristina-fernandez-de-kirchner-bitch-penguin-news


Falkland Islands newspaper calls Cristina Fernández de Kirchner a bitch

 

[RabidMongoose]

This is a very fascinating article on the increasing isolation of the UK in South America. As I've said before, Argentina's political leaders seem quite savvy.

War 'unlikely' in [the Malvinas], but UK could lose regional access

Excellent article. It does look like the UK's occupation of the Malvinas will eventually become economically unviable as various South American countries further develop their strengthening economy. I don't think that Argentina will take the Malvinas by force, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they and their allies pressure the UK into ending their occupation.

 

[Nebor]

Excellent article. It does look like the UK's occupation of the Malvinas will eventually become economically unviable as various South American countries further develop their strengthening economy. I don't think that Argentina will take the Malvinas by force, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they and their allies pressure the UK into ending their occupation.

So that the Argentinians can invade the islands unopposed again? And see the Falkland Islanders driven before them as they rape the women and massacre the men and children again?

Also, quoting yourself for the lulz.

 

[RabidMongoose]

So that the Argentinians can invade the islands unopposed again? And see the Falkland Islanders driven before them as they rape the women and massacre the men and children again?

Also, quoting yourself for the lulz.

Argentina has no interest in invading or using violence.

 

[Nebor]

Argentina has no interest in invading or using violence.

I bet they said the same thing in 1980. And yet over 40,000 Falkland Island women were raped in the invasion of 1982.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I bet they said the same thing in 1980. And yet over 40,000 Falkland Island women were raped in the invasion of 1982.

Please don't derail this thread with your bizarre fantasies.

 

[Nebor]

Please don't derail this thread with your bizarre fantasies.

What are you talking about? Are you disputing the facts? Concealing the holocaust that the Argentinians visited on the Falkland Islanders?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Do you have a source for this?

 

[alphatarget1]

Argentina has no legitimate claims on the Falkland Islands. There were never really any Argentinians there, and the people of Falkland Island want to remain British. If the Argentinians dare to invade again they'll get whooped and maybe the UK can send some warships to shell Buenos Aires to teach them a lesson. Since Argentina is a democracy, it seems like that's what their people collectively want- to start another war over some islands they never have any legitimate claims to and get taught a lesson. Maybe if it hits closer to home they'll shut up for 100 years this time.

 

[BladeVenom]

Argentina has no interest in invading or using violence.

If that were true, they wouldn't care if British soldiers were guarding the island.

It's obviously a lie, so they can get Britain to lower their guard so they can engage in another treacherous sneak attack.

 

[Veliko]

Please answer my questions above. I have already provided multiple arguments in support of Argentina.

You have done no such thing. In fact all you have done is say "I disagree" whenever someone puts forward a reason why the British claim to the islands is valid, yet failed utterly to put forward the reasons why the Argentinian claim is valid.

So far the pro-British claims can be summed up with:

- Discovered them before Argentina even existed.
- British colonists have lived there for 150+ years.
- The colonists want to remain British.
- Britain fought off an Argentinian invasion in 1984.


Your pro-Argentinian claim is:

- Argentina is closer to the islands than Britain is.

 

[Veliko]

The Malvinas had been visited by native populations. They did not create permanent settlements on the Malvinas that were still in existence.

Thus, the British were not the first to discover the Malvinas. They were also not the first Europeans to discover the Malvinas since the Spanish and others had sighted the islands.

The British may have only been the first Europeans to land on the Malvinas. That's not much of a 'discovery' considering that it had already been visited by native populations and had already been discovered by the Spanish.

You keep muddling between 'native populations' and specific nations. What 'native populations' visited the islands before the British did?

The French had the first colony and then the Spanish actually acquired that colony from the French. The Argentinians then inherited the Spanish claim.

The British colony does not give them any rights since they weren't even the first ones there, they were not the first to discover the Malvinas, nor were they the first Europeans to create a settlement on the Malvinas. The UK presence there, if we go by colonialist behavior, is superseded by the Argentinian claims that trace back to the very first settlement from the French.

If the British weren't the first ones to discover the island then who was? And how exactly did Argentina 'inherit' the claim from the Spanish?

Going by colonialist claims the dispute is between Britain, France and Spain. Argentina has nothing to do with it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I highly doubt Argentina is after the Falklands because they want to oversee a few thousands people out on a desolate island hundreds of miles from their shore.

If Argentina wants a forward navy base for their national security and I was England I'd be willing to consider that. I'd consider renting them a base, like we rent GITMO from the Cubans.

If it's about any oil deposits I understand England has already offered to share.

So far, I'm not understanding Argentina's stance or wants. If they want England to just give them the islands that's unreasonable.

Fern

Colonialism Macho ego

Argentina has been embarrassed twice. Nationalist fever can over rule common sense