Falklands War part 2?

[Puddle Jumper]

No, what I'm saying is that we can have an peaceful transition period where Argentina gets to control the Malvinas for 100 years, expel a lot of the locals back to the UK, and then resettle the Malvinas with other people. Then we can have a peaceful referendum where the people who are currently on the Malvinas can vote. That's basically what people want, but for the UK.

I don't think that Argentina is going to make a first lethal strike with regard to the Malvinas.

That entire process makes no sense.

 

[Jaskalas]

You know my neighbor parks his car closer to my house then his own. I've asked him to have international bilateral talks about who really owns it. I know he bought it, insured it, made payments on it and even washes it, but it's closer to my house so I think I should own it now.

You going to wish me luck or tell me i'm being an idiot for trying to take something that isn't mine?

Only we're not talking about a piece of property when the Islands have a local population living there and they get to choose for themselves. I would back their descision with US military force against Argentina, the UK, or anyone trying to oppose their free will.

 

[EagleKeeper]

How about we let Argentina control the Malvinas for 100 years, kick out the locals, replace them with other Argentinians, and then have a referendum with the locals remaining on the Malvinas?

where is there information on the population of the Falklands prior to 1800?

Per wiki, the islands were un-inhabited in the 1700s, Britian, France and Spain all setup colonies in the late 1700s and then formally abandoned them in the early 1800s.

No one country had control over the land - just colony leftovers and seafarers. Britian came back in 1833

 

[RabidMongoose]

Something about those two phrases don't seem to mesh :hmm:

It wouldn't involve a war between two nations. How about if we let Argentina control the islands for 100 years, give the current kelpers dual Argentinian/UK citizenship, and then have a vote after 100 years?

 

[RabidMongoose]

where is there information on the population of the Falklands prior to 1800?

Per wiki, the islands were un-inhabited in the 1700s, Britian, France and Spain all setup colonies in the late 1700s and then formally abandoned them in the early 1800s.

No one country had control over the land - just colony leftovers and seafarers. Britian came back in 1833

Britain invaded in 1833. People were living there before the UK invaded.

 

[dawheat]

Of course he has a choice. Different groups will be alienated by whatever action he chooses. However, I suspect that those who would be angry would not vote for Obama anyways, and he would further his support among other politically important groups.

Additionally, his current actions against the UK, including supporting Argentina's position on bilateral talks, certainly haven't provoked much backlash among Americans.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I saw how the Republicans tried to paint Obama as weak for not being more forceful in Libya. Not defending the UK? Good gosh - I can already see the hysteria. "Obama hates democracy!!!", "Obama doesn't care about white people!!!", "Obama doesn't care about our friends!!!" "British soldiers died in Afghanistan, Obama pisses on their sacrifice!!!".

And as someone who's lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and now New York - certainly not the most pro-military force portions of the country - I personally think most Americans would come down on the side of the UK.

For lack of backlash - seriously, I didn't even hear about this in the news until this thread. I don't think most Americans know anything is going on. HOWEVER - a British solider is killed or Argentina tries to take it by force? Then Americans will receive a 24/7 TV diet of this. Fox News won't let anything short of a nuke strike suffice.

 

[monovillage]

Only we're not talking about a piece of property when the Islands have a local population living there and they get to choose for themselves. I would back their descision with US military force against Argentina, the UK, or anyone trying to oppose their free will.

Good point, maybe we can have those international bilateral talks include his kids also?

 

[WelshBloke]

Britain invaded in 1833. People were living there before the UK invaded.

Are you referring to Luis Vernets settlement?

 

[MotF Bane]

No, what I'm saying is that we can have an peaceful transition period where Argentina gets to control the Malvinas for 100 years, expel a lot of the locals back to the UK, and then resettle the Malvinas with other people. Then we can have a peaceful referendum where the people who are currently on the Malvinas can vote. That's basically what people want, but for the UK.

I don't think that Argentina is going to make a first lethal strike with regard to the Malvinas.

That's ridiculous. Kick off the people who already live there, put on your own people, and THEN stage a vote. That's completely rigged and corrupt.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Britain invaded in 1833. People were living there before the UK invaded.

In 1828, the Argentine government granted Vernet all of East Falkland, including all its resources, with exemption from taxation if a colony could be established within three years. He took settlers, including British Captain Matthew Brisbane, and before leaving once again sought permission first from the British Consulate in Buenos Aires. The British asked for a report on the islands for the British government, and Vernet asked for British protection should they return.

Vernet may have been acting for the Argentineans, but he knew he was answering to the British. He expected support from the British.

On 2 January 1833, Captain John Onslow arrived and delivered written requests that Pinedo lower the Argentine flag in favour of the British one, and that the Argentine administration leave the islands. Pinedo asked if war had been declared between Argentina and Great Britain; Onslow replied that it had not. Nonetheless, Pinedo, heavily outmanned and outgunned, left the islands under protest. Argentines subsequently claimed that the population of Puerto Luis was expelled at the same time, though sources from the time appear to dispute this, suggesting that the colonists were encouraged to remain under Vernet's deputy, Matthew Brisbane

British kicked out the interim Argentinian government and let the people stay.

 

[RabidMongoose]

That's ridiculous. Kick off the people who already live there, put on your own people, and THEN stage a vote. That's completely rigged and corrupt.

Yes, that's why the proposition of just having a vote after years and years of UK rule is rigged and corrupt as well.

I think that another alternative would be to allow Argentina to control the islands and to allow the current kelpers to remain with dual Argentina/UK citizenship, but Argentina can also allow other Argentinians to go to the Malvinas. Then after some period of years, say 100, then there can be a referendum. Would that be better?

It's an interesting situation, that's for sure.

 

[shiner]

It wouldn't involve a war between two nations. How about if we let Argentina control the islands for 100 years, give the current kelpers dual Argentinian/UK citizenship, and then have a vote after 100 years?

How about we expel you from your house and let someone else live there for 10 years and then ask them if they want to stay?

 

[OutHouse]

I think that there are even fewer Americans who would even want to have the US involved in the mess. The US would most likely stay neutral, IMO. If the UK wants to maintain its colonies, then it will almost certainly have to do it on its own.

if it stays between Argentina and the UK we will stay out of it. however if Chavez deploys its military to engage the British then its a whole new ballgame and i would be highly surprised if the US did not get involved.

 

[RabidMongoose]

How about we expel you from your house and let someone else live there for 10 years and then ask them if they want to stay?

How about if we let someone invade your home, occupy it for 10 years, and then ask them if they want to stay?

I think that we have come to a point where the issue of the Malvinas cannot be resolved merely by a referendum. Hopefully bilateral talks and serious progress can be made between the UK and Argentina.

 

[OutHouse]

Yes, that's why the proposition of just having a vote after years and years of UK rule is rigged and corrupt as well.

I think that another alternative would be to allow Argentina to control the islands and to allow the current kelpers to remain with dual Argentina/UK citizenship, but Argentina can also allow other Argentinians to go to the Malvinas. Then after some period of years, say 100, then there can be a referendum. Would that be better?

It's an interesting situation, that's for sure.

no

these people want to be British have lived there for 170 years what right does Argentina have to come in and throw them off?

how would you react if Japan tried to take Guam (a US territory) and kick out the residents? would the US just let that happen? noooo you bet your ass there would be a big ass fight.
**yes i know japan has no ties to guam its just an example.

 

[OutHouse]

How about if we let someone invade your home, occupy it for 10 years, and then ask them if they want to stay?

I think that we have come to a point where the issue of the Malvinas cannot be resolved merely by a referendum. Hopefully bilateral talks and serious progress can be made between the UK and Argentina.

dude wtf???

why are you so hostile about this? what stake do you have? The people of the Falklands WANT TO BE BRITISH! what about that do you not understand? why would you support Argentina to come in an take over the island and its people? why cant Argentina just leave them the fuck alone?

 

[CanOWorms]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I saw how the Republicans tried to paint Obama as weak for not being more forceful in Libya. Not defending the UK? Good gosh - I can already see the hysteria. "Obama hates democracy!!!", "Obama doesn't care about white people!!!", "Obama doesn't care about our friends!!!" "British soldiers died in Afghanistan, Obama pisses on their sacrifice!!!".

We're just merely speculating. Neither one of us knows.

I just think that Obama won't necessarily side with the UK given his previous actions in regards to the UK:

• Has written on the UK's mutilation of his grandfather's testicles
• Returned Winston Churchill's bust to the UK upon arriving at the Oval Office
• Gave the UK Prime Minister a DVD collection as a gift in exchange for something grander
• Refused to even meet the UK Prime Minister when he was in NYC for a UN General Assembly meeting
• State Department officials have dismissed the "special relationship," stating “There’s nothing special about Britain. You’re just the same as the other 190 countries in the world. You shouldn’t expect special treatment” and other actions diminishing the relationship
• Declaration of neutrality in regards to the Malvinas and supporting Argentina's position on bilateral talks
• Provided the Russians with secrets on the British nuclear program
• BP = British Petroleum, related fiasco
• Signed on to the OAS statement in regards to the Malvinas

and so forth, none of which created a huge fiasco for him other than within the UK and the Fox News crowd.

And as someone who's lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and now New York - certainly not the most pro-military force portions of the country - I personally think most Americans would come down on the side of the UK.

I've lived in both of those areas as well, and I have a feeling that the people would not support an American-led war effort to rescue a crumbling Empire.

For lack of backlash - seriously, I didn't even hear about this in the news until this thread. I don't think most Americans know anything is going on. HOWEVER - a British solider is killed or Argentina tries to take it by force? Then Americans will receive a 24/7 TV diet of this. Fox News won't let anything short of a nuke strike suffice.

Exactly - Fox News.

 

[CanOWorms]

Yes, that's why the proposition of just having a vote after years and years of UK rule is rigged and corrupt as well.

I think that another alternative would be to allow Argentina to control the islands and to allow the current kelpers to remain with dual Argentina/UK citizenship, but Argentina can also allow other Argentinians to go to the Malvinas. Then after some period of years, say 100, then there can be a referendum. Would that be better?

It's an interesting situation, that's for sure.

The alternative scenario you've provided has some promise. This may potentially put the land to better use and be a much more efficient use of the Earth's resources, too.

 

[CanOWorms]

no

these people want to be British have lived there for 170 years what right does Argentina have to come in and throw them off?

how would you react if Japan tried to take Guam (a US territory) and kick out the residents? would the US just let that happen? noooo you bet your ass there would be a big ass fight.
**yes i know japan has no ties to guam its just an example.

One solution may be that the current inhabitants can stay there, not be thrown off. In addition, Argentinians may be able to move in.

I think it's difficult to find other scenarios to match this since it's quite unique. The British Empire really left many messes all over the world, each with different characteristics.

 

[WelshBloke]

It wouldn't involve a war between two nations. How about if we let Argentina control the islands for 100 years, give the current kelpers dual Argentinian/UK citizenship, and then have a vote after 100 years?

Wow, missed this earlier!

Do you call the Argentinians Dagos as well?

I'm impressed, you've made my low opinion of you sink even lower.

 

[CanOWorms]

It looks like the Argentinian president will be making an address today. Many are speculating that it will be in regards to severing the only air link between the Malvinas to the outside world.

Argentina's president to raise stakes in address to nation

A senior European diplomat in Buenos Aires said Europe's economic crisis had emboldened Argentina, which was riding high on nine years of strong economic growth. "South America doesn't have the respect it used to have for Europe, it feels it is on top now and is flexing its new muscles."

A summit of leftwing leaders in Venezuela last weekend backed Fernández's campaign as a pan-regional cause. Her Venezuelan counterpart, Hugo Chávez, said Caracas would support its ally in a military conflict. "Thirty years ago Argentina was left on its own, but things have changed. The old dismantled empire should not believe that Argentina is alone because South America is here, Latin America is here." Ecuador's Rafael Correa called for sanctions against Britain.

Argentina's foreign minister, Hector Timerman, welcomed the solidarity. "Argentina is not alone, Great Britain is alone."

Times have changed.

 

[WelshBloke]

It looks like the Argentinian president will be making an address today. Many are speculating that it will be in regards to severing the only air link between the Malvinas to the outside world.

Argentina's president to raise stakes in address to nation



Times have changed.

The worst thing that could happen for Argentina in a military situation would be for Venezuela to join in. That would guarantee the US joining in on the side of the UK.

Can you see the front page of Fox News? "Venezuela invades UK Islands"

 

[CanOWorms]

The worst thing that could happen for Argentina in a military situation would be for Venezuela to join in. That would guarantee the US joining in on the side of the UK.

Can you see the front page of Fox News? "Venezuela invades UK Islands"

What is Venezuela going to provide? Moreover, most of South America and the Caribbean is behind Argentina in regards to bilateral talks. Why do you think they have instituted a blockade on ships from the Malvinas?

 

[CanOWorms]

Wow, missed this earlier!

Do you call the Argentinians Dagos as well?

I'm impressed, you've made my low opinion of you sink even lower.

Please reconsider using such highly-offensive racial slurs in your posts. Thanks. Your analogy isn't even on point. It's almost as if you're just using it as an opportunity to use such a word.

 

[WelshBloke]

What is Venezuela going to provide? Moreover, most of South America and the Caribbean is behind Argentina in regards to bilateral talks. Why do you think they have instituted a blockade on ships from the Malvinas?

Do you read your own posts?

Hugo Chávez, said Caracas would support its ally in a military conflict