FairTax Plan

[BoomerD]

FAIR tax? How about doing away with ALL tax shelters, ALL income tax deductions, (no more write-offs) and make EVERY dollar you earn, no matter HOW it's earned, subject to taxes?

OR

If you want to go to strictly sales-tax based taxation, use a variable tax rate. The more an item costs, the higher the tax rate. If you buy a 25 cent candy-bar, you pay .5%, if you buy a mega-million $$ yacht, you pay 50%...and everything else is somewhere inbetween...let the rick pay more...they can afford it...(that point being that the rich CAN afford to pay higher tax rates...it hurts their bottom line less than it does those of us who "work for a living"...

 

[Rangoric]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
FAIR tax? How about doing away with ALL tax shelters, ALL income tax deductions, (no more write-offs) and make EVERY dollar you earn, no matter HOW it's earned, subject to taxes?

OR

If you want to go to strictly sales-tax based taxation, use a variable tax rate. The more an item costs, the higher the tax rate. If you buy a 25 cent candy-bar, you pay .5%, if you buy a mega-million $$ yacht, you pay 50%...and everything else is somewhere inbetween...let the rick pay more...they can afford it...(that point being that the rich CAN afford to pay higher tax rates...it hurts their bottom line less than it does those of us who "work for a living"...

How on earth does that remove the need for the IRS and how does it eliminate the need for a business to have an accountant?

 

[Siddhartha]

Who would be paying more and less taxes under this "FairTax Plan"?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Where they get the money doesn't matter. The price of the good would be the same with and with out the tax. The tax simple decreases the corporations profit.

studies show that it is the employees who pay for the corporate income tax. not shareholders. not consumers. employees. in the form of lower wages. and it ain't the employees at the top.

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

To be truly "fair", each person should pay a set tax, set as in 10K a year or whatever, to be a part of this glorious country. Tax PER PERSON, not income. Now we know that will never happen, so at least tax income equally percentage wise.

and you would create the worst economy in the history of the world doing that.

Hey you know what, I'll make some outrageous claims too...

Pigs fly... hell is frozen... the sky is red....

I win!

who would do low wage work? eh? bueller?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
FAIR tax? How about doing away with ALL tax shelters, ALL income tax deductions, (no more write-offs) and make EVERY dollar you earn, no matter HOW it's earned, subject to taxes?

sounds like you want a cash flow tax

 

[eplebnista]

I agree with it

 

[FoBoT]

i have a conflict of interest , so i can't really vote or have an opinion

 

[Glavinsolo]

100% for it

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i have a conflict of interest , so i can't really vote or have an opinion

Work for the IRS huh

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i have a conflict of interest , so i can't really vote or have an opinion

Work for the IRS huh

I did, and it is one of the biggest wastes of tax dollars.

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i have a conflict of interest , so i can't really vote or have an opinion

Work for the IRS huh

I did, and it is one of the biggest wastes of tax dollars.

Surplus money right there after this is implemented. Hell what financial institution wouldn't hire old IRS employees

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i have a conflict of interest , so i can't really vote or have an opinion

Work for the IRS huh

I did, and it is one of the biggest wastes of tax dollars.

That title has some SERIOUS competition. I doubt the IRS is even in the running.

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan

To be truly "fair", each person should pay a set tax, set as in 10K a year or whatever, to be a part of this glorious country. Tax PER PERSON, not income. Now we know that will never happen, so at least tax income equally percentage wise.

And the only way THAT would be fair is if you took away all money, possessions, and business and personal connections and distributed them equally to start with (communist utopia++). Try to impose such a ludicrous scheme right now, and all you'd end up doing is creating a class of nobles and a class of serfs. Does that seem fair to you?

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: FoBoT
i have a conflict of interest , so i can't really vote or have an opinion

Work for the IRS huh

I did, and it is one of the biggest wastes of tax dollars.

That title has some SERIOUS competition. I doubt the IRS is even in the running.

I didn't say it was the biggest.

 

[her209]

Taxing earned income at the same rate as unearned income... ridiculous.

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: her209
Taxing earned income at the same rate as unearned income... ridiculous.

Buying investments doesn't get charged fairtax. Did you read the whole website?

 

[Thegonagle]

So, no taxation on corporate profits, nor capital gains. No tax on anything anybody makes that they don't spend.

The working poor, who tend to (by necessity) spend every penny they earn, are pretty much taxed on every penny over [some arbitrary federal poverty definition], while people who make lots and lots of money, only get taxed on what they spend, not on the millions they can sock away.

Doesn't sound progressive at all. It sounds quite the opposite. In Econ 101, I learned that the word for this is regressive. (In other words, it's the ultimate tax break for the rich and for corporations.)

I'm not buying it.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: her209
Taxing earned income at the same rate as unearned income... ridiculous.

Buying investments doesn't get charged fairtax. Did you read the whole website?

You're right. The website doesn't even tax unearned income. Even worst than a flat tax!

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: her209
Taxing earned income at the same rate as unearned income... ridiculous.

Buying investments doesn't get charged fairtax. Did you read the whole website?

You're right. The website doesn't even tax unearned income. Even worst than a flat tax!

what? the unearned income is taxed when you buy a house, car, food, etc.

The major benefit I see from this tax is that all the missed taxes from buying items online will be easily taxed. You think everything is tax free on the internet but it is really hurting our economy.

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle
So, no taxation on corporate profits, nor capital gains. No tax on anything anybody makes that they don't spend.

The working poor, who tend to (by necessity) spend every penny they earn, are pretty much taxed on every penny over [some arbitrary federal poverty definition], while people who make lots and lots of money, only get taxed on what they spend, not on the millions they can sock away.

Doesn't sound progressive at all. It sounds quite the opposite. In Econ 101, I learned that the word for this is regressive. (In other words, it's the ultimate tax break for the rich and for corporations.)

I'm not buying it.

Did you read the fairtax completely? Yes the poor are taxed on every dollar they spend but they get a prebate and pay ~0% tax.

So money saved is never seen again? Come on man, what do the rich save for?

Say I make 50k and I spend 40k this year and sock away 10k towards a down payment for a house, won't I be taxed on that 10k when I buy my house.

Say a person who generates 300k/year saves 290k per year and saves and saves and saves. Where is he going to put that money? In stocks and bonds which pushes forth the economy which is far from regressive.
Better yet say they donate to charity--they can donate to charity and not have to worry about declaring it on taxes and better yet a pre-tax donation.

Try and open your mind, not an insult just we need to change they way we think about where our money goes and what it is used for when we are taxed.

How is income tax progressive?

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you think the "fairtax" would work you are a idiot. It is nothing more then a tax cut for the rich.

Do some real research into it and it is pretty clear.

Gotta agree. While the idea sounds good, it basically just shifts the tax burden onto the already over taxed middle-class. The poor pay little or nothing, the rich pay less than they do now....the middle class pay far more than they do now.

Even the "Flat Tax" which I support at least in theory, are really designed to give the rich more tax breaks than they already get through tax shelters, deductions, etc.

Unfortunately, there's no fair way to levy taxes so that everyone pays his/her fair share without someone feeling like they're paying more than their fair share...

With a Flat Tax, everyone above a certain point would pay the same set percentage of their GROSS income with NO deductions of any kind. Mortgage deductions, charitable deductions, etc. would all go away. You're taxed on every dime you make from any source of income...wages, stocks & bonds, interest, etc...

Unfortunately, this would also shift more of the tax burden onto the middle-class while giving the wealthy a big tax cut...

 

[pstylesss]

I have a feeling what would happen is wages would increase (without a minimum wage increase), since tax burdens are mainly passed along to employees (for those that don't know, each employee that a company has, take what they pay you and double it - thats the cost they have to employee you).

Costs of goods will go down slightly, but not a whole lot. The "horrible rich" would be able to invest more in startups and actually starting their own business without worrying about paying taxes on gains or worrying about all the taxes they will have to pay. So in theory, a less taxed rich person will be more willing/capable of creating jobs for the lowly middle class.

The middle class won't be paying anymore in taxes than they already do, we're taxed around 24% now anyway, so just add about 6% to that and you have the new tax. Don't forget to increase you're wages a tiny bit and also decrease your deductibles for health coverage because their costs will go down.

Anyway, go ahead and rip me up.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

I don't know anything about economics but i'd like to see the federal income tax droped in favor of a federal sales tax. with any luck it would constantly remind people of how much money the gov't sucks up and maybe they would put some pressure on their reps to spend less money.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: jackace
IMO Corporate America should be responsible for more of this countries tax revenue. Yes they pass those costs on to consumers, but then we have a choice to save our money or spend it and be taxed.

actually they pass it on to their employees, and not the guys at the top, before the consumer.

With the current system me personally I get taxed on all the money I make BEFORE any of my expenses are factored into the equation. Corporate Tax allows the corporation to subtract all expenses FIRST then pay tax on what's left. It's easy for a large corporation to "find" all sorts of expenses when it comes time to pay there taxes. These problems are easily seen. Just look at the army of accountants and lawyers most of these corporations employ for the sole purpose of avoiding paying taxes.

which is why corporations shouldn't have any taxes levied on them.

Originally posted by: Jack Ryan
There was a time where I thought this was the greatest idea ever. After much research and discussion with family and friends, I don't think this is feasible. Not only do I think it is not a good idea, it will never happen because of all the retired people who would now have to pay tax (by spending) on their "tax free" retirement accounts, amongst other things.

A better option is a flat tax.

a flat tax on what?

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
I don't know anything about economics but i'd like to see the federal income tax droped in favor of a federal sales tax. with any luck it would constantly remind people of how much money the gov't sucks up and maybe they would put some pressure on their reps to spend less money.

you could do that with the current structure, just eliminate withholding and make people write a check to the government. withholding makes the payment hypothetical, writing a check each month would make it reality.


anyway, i think the people advocating the 'fair tax' don't live in sales tax states. sales taxes get pretty frickin' complicated as well.


edit: i see that i addressed most of these SIX MONTHS AGO when this thread was originally posted. thanks glavinsolo.

 

[Glavinsolo]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you think the "fairtax" would work you are a idiot. It is nothing more then a tax cut for the rich.

Do some real research into it and it is pretty clear.

Gotta agree. While the idea sounds good, it basically just shifts the tax burden onto the already over taxed middle-class. The poor pay little or nothing, the rich pay less than they do now....the middle class pay far more than they do now.

Even the "Flat Tax" which I support at least in theory, are really designed to give the rich more tax breaks than they already get through tax shelters, deductions, etc.

Unfortunately, there's no fair way to levy taxes so that everyone pays his/her fair share without someone feeling like they're paying more than their fair share...

With a Flat Tax, everyone above a certain point would pay the same set percentage of their GROSS income with NO deductions of any kind. Mortgage deductions, charitable deductions, etc. would all go away. You're taxed on every dime you make from any source of income...wages, stocks & bonds, interest, etc...

Unfortunately, this would also shift more of the tax burden onto the middle-class while giving the wealthy a big tax cut...

Tax cut for the rich? How do you figure if they spend more they pay more tax. The rich as you call them at this time put their money in tax shelters and hide income to be in a lower tax bracket. This would essentially force those sneaky tax practices that any good accountant has their client in and make those clients pay fairtax on all purchases.

Please explain to me the benefits of our current income tax, its a bloated and costly system that needs to be done away with.

Think about all those who purchases online items from other states, where would that sales tax go if you had bought them at your local B&M? Your state would have benefited from that tax and had been used for schools roads and you guessed it better quality of life for those who lived in the state.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Glavinsolo

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
If you think the "fairtax" would work you are a idiot. It is nothing more then a tax cut for the rich.

Do some real research into it and it is pretty clear.

Gotta agree. While the idea sounds good, it basically just shifts the tax burden onto the already over taxed middle-class. The poor pay little or nothing, the rich pay less than they do now....the middle class pay far more than they do now.

Even the "Flat Tax" which I support at least in theory, are really designed to give the rich more tax breaks than they already get through tax shelters, deductions, etc.

Unfortunately, there's no fair way to levy taxes so that everyone pays his/her fair share without someone feeling like they're paying more than their fair share...

With a Flat Tax, everyone above a certain point would pay the same set percentage of their GROSS income with NO deductions of any kind. Mortgage deductions, charitable deductions, etc. would all go away. You're taxed on every dime you make from any source of income...wages, stocks & bonds, interest, etc...

Unfortunately, this would also shift more of the tax burden onto the middle-class while giving the wealthy a big tax cut...

Tax cut for the rich? How do you figure if they spend more they pay more tax. The rich as you call them at this time put their money in tax shelters and hide income to be in a lower tax bracket. This would essentially force those sneaky tax practices that any good accountant has their client in and make those clients pay fairtax on all purchases.

Please explain to me the benefits of our current income tax, its a bloated and costly system that needs to be done away with.

Think about all those who purchases online items from other states, where would that sales tax go if you had bought them at your local B&M? Your state would have benefited from that tax and had been used for schools roads and you guessed it better quality of life for those who lived in the state.

Not to mention that the current tax system chases companies and jobs out of the United States and puts the companies that do stay at a competitive disadvantage with companies from other countries. Why do you think some states give massive tax breaks to companies to attract them? If it weren't for those tax breaks, those companies and those jobs would be overseas.