"fair share" now "negotiated reimbursements"

[CADsortaGUY]

Isn't your dad some sort of big wig in your company (or have you moved on to another company since he helped you get in the door)?

Nope. Doesn't work there. Also, he had nothing to do with my advancement from the bottom of the company.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

LOL@U. All it takes to advance in your world is a pretty mouth. You're the Monica Lewinski of the right, you just don't have enough vision to see that and true advancement requires vision.

yeah, I guess to people like you, actually helping the company grow and make money is having a "pretty mouth".

You see, the difference between my types and your types is that I continue to control my future. My employer doesn't dictate/control my future. I would leave tomorrow if I felt the company wasn't treating me well, I don't need a 3rd party thug org to do my bidding for me.

 

[nobodyknows]

yeah, I guess to people like you, actually helping the company grow and make money is having a "pretty mouth".

You see, the difference between my types and your types is that I continue to control my future. My employer doesn't dictate/control my future. I would leave tomorrow if I felt the company wasn't treating me well, I don't need a 3rd party thug org to do my bidding for me.

Yes, we've all heard you tell us what a genius and hard worker your are.

Then you procceed to go on and on and prove to us what a fucking pathetic loser you really are. So better keep that nose buried in your bosses ass before somone else steals your spot!!!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Yes, we've all heard you tell us what a genius and hard worker your are.

Then you procceed to go on and on and prove to us what a fucking pathetic loser you really are. So better keep that nose buried in your bosses ass before somone else steals your spot!!!

nope, not a genius - just someone who takes pride in his work.

lol, I have zero reason to stick my nose up their ass - my work speaks for itself. You see, in my line of work, results can't be glossed over by brown nosing - you know - something you libs try hard to ignore - results matter.

So again, my work speaks for itself - there is no reason for me to pay a 3rd party thug org to do my bidding. Why do you people think you need to pay someone else to protect you from the people that pay you? Are you really that weak that you won't speak up and/or leave if it's really that bad?

 

[bctbct]

Uh no, what it does it muscles out the little guys who can compete on price because they don't have the overhead that larger ones have. It's not really a coincidence that most of the large ones are connected to elected officials...is it? Hmm...

company vehicles/ employees vehicles used as company vehicle
office/ owners house
company phones/ employee phones
company provided fall protection/ no money for that
company provided safety program/ no safety program

Little guys are usually people that are limited in their own capabilities to grow.

Prevailing wage protects the tax payer from some low baller who will not perform to the industry standard because he has cut corners to buy a job.

One example here recently is a general contractor who underbid a school remodel by 500k. His plumber was low by 200k and the HVAC was 100k lower than other bidders.

Their answer was to talk the school district into different equipment then what was spec'd(and bid by everyone else)

Job is now 8 months behind(4 mth project) and the school district is probably going to terminate the contract this coming week.

When a contractor finds himself in financial trouble the two things he is going to do is cut his labor and material costs.

The school district is at fault because they should have known that the lowest bid was way too low.

This is going to cost the school much more then 500k to fix at this point.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

company vehicles/ employees vehicles used as company vehicle
office/ owners house
company phones/ employee phones
company provided fall protection/ no money for that
company provided safety program/ no safety program

Little guys are usually people that are limited in their own capabilities to grow.

Prevailing wage protects the tax payer from some low baller who will not perform to the industry standard because he has cut corners to buy a job.

One example here recently is a general contractor who underbid a school remodel by 500k. His plumber was low by 200k and the HVAC was 100k lower than other bidders.

Their answer was to talk the school district into different equipment then what was spec'd(and bid by everyone else)

Job is now 8 months behind(4 mth project) and the school district is probably going to terminate the contract this coming week.

When a contractor finds himself in financial trouble the two things he is going to do is cut his labor and material costs.

The school district is at fault because they should have known that the lowest bid was way too low.

This is going to cost the school much more then 500k to fix at this point.

And there are plenty of stories that show the same thing with big(i mean union) companies too - PLUS cost more. So do you want an anecdote war or do you wish to acknowledge that your little story isn't exclusive to just the little guy.

 

[bctbct]

And there are plenty of stories that show the same thing with big(i mean union) companies too - PLUS cost more. So do you want an anecdote war or do you wish to acknowledge that your little story isn't exclusive to just the little guy.

Thats why prevailing wage puts everyone on the same page. If you are the low bidder and have to pay $22 hr for a carpenter you arent going to waste your money on some laborer with a hammer and call him a carpenter.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Thats why prevailing wage puts everyone on the same page. If you are the low bidder and have to pay $22 hr for a carpenter you arent going to waste your money on some laborer with a hammer and call him a carpenter.

No, it's what pushes little guys out and takes away any advantage they could have used. It's no wonder little guys can't grow...

 

[Double Trouble]

If that were true than businesses wouldn't have anything to fear from unions because the best talent wouldn't be involved with them...

Your logic is flawed.

No. Over time we've seen unions diminish and wilt away in the private sector, just as one would expect. The only places where they generally flourish are places where you don't have to be competitive in terms of your talent, your wages, your benefits etc, because the employer doesn't care about competing --- in other words, the government. Since the government doesn't have any competition, it can afford to pay too much for the talent level, deliver lousy results every year etc, without any consequences.

Further, most businesses that have to deal with unions don't have an option not to. If they did, they'd go to non-union workers because they'd have better skilled employees at more competitive wages.

 

[nobodyknows]

nope, not a genius - just someone who takes pride in his work.

lol, I have zero reason to stick my nose up their ass - my work speaks for itself. You see, in my line of work, results can't be glossed over by brown nosing - you know - something you libs try hard to ignore - results matter.

So again, my work speaks for itself - there is no reason for me to pay a 3rd party thug org to do my bidding. Why do you people think you need to pay someone else to protect you from the people that pay you? Are you really that weak that you won't speak up and/or leave if it's really that bad?

OMG are you a concieted little bitch. Just because you think your shit doesn't stink and have no need for a union doesn't mean you speak for everybody else.

As I said before, you show us how stupid you really are. You aren't even close to being half as smart as you think you are.

 

[nobodyknows]

Isn't your dad some sort of big wig in your company (or have you moved on to another company since he helped you get in the door)?

You just as well try to get GWB to admit he went AWOL and just quit flying because he had a drug problem.

 

[werepossum]

No. Over time we've seen unions diminish and wilt away in the private sector, just as one would expect. The only places where they generally flourish are places where you don't have to be competitive in terms of your talent, your wages, your benefits etc, because the employer doesn't care about competing --- in other words, the government. Since the government doesn't have any competition, it can afford to pay too much for the talent level, deliver lousy results every year etc, without any consequences.

Further, most businesses that have to deal with unions don't have an option not to. If they did, they'd go to non-union workers because they'd have better skilled employees at more competitive wages.

All that is generally true but the trade unions can bring real value to the table. The difference between a union-trained electrician or plumber with seven years of training and apprenticeship and non-union which varies from no requirements to four years can be pretty spectacular. Also there are the union rules as to how many apprentices (and of what level of training) can work per journeyman or master whereas a non-union shop might well be one journeyman and two dozen illegals who were subsistence farmers or unskilled laborers a year ago. These things make a real difference in quality, yet in most cases the union trade companies have to compete for bid contracts with non-union shops for the lowest bid.

I was a pretty anti-union guy (except for miners) before I began doing construction engineering. Now if I could I would restrict all my contracts to union-only contractors. And I would get a better product. There are some good non-union contractors and some areas (like Minnesota) that are batshit crazy union areas, but overall union contractors give a much better product for a competitive price. (Most non-government contracts are low bid.) That's been hard for me to swallow, but I've now changed 180 degrees to be totally in favor of trade unions. I'm still generally opposed to unions of non-skilled or semi-skilled workers, where unions serve more to artificially inflate wages than to provide any benefit to the company, but for skilled or dangerous work I've become a big union advocate.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

OMG are you a concieted little bitch. Just because you think your shit doesn't stink and have no need for a union doesn't mean you speak for everybody else.

As I said before, you show us how stupid you really are. You aren't even close to being half as smart as you think you are.

Nope - I just don't think it's right for unions to try to force people to pay dues when they don't want to be in the union. You see, the libs are trying to force people to pay with this sort of legislation. It's just plain wrong and goes against the spirit of freedom.

lol, yeah as I've stated before you libs will always thing I'm wrong or stupid when you don't even try to understand what I post and instead replace it with your asinine assumptions. But hey - you libs keep it up...

 

[bctbct]

No, it's what pushes little guys out and takes away any advantage they could have used. It's no wonder little guys can't grow...

Being a little guy doesnt close the door as much as being a big guy can open them.

gov't seems to be moving away from the low bidder in construction, too many problems.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

All that is generally true but the trade unions can bring real value to the table. The difference between a union-trained electrician or plumber with seven years of training and apprenticeship and non-union which varies from no requirements to four years can be pretty spectacular. Also there are the union rules as to how many apprentices (and of what level of training) can work per journeyman or master whereas a non-union shop might well be one journeyman and two dozen illegals who were subsistence farmers or unskilled laborers a year ago. These things make a real difference in quality, yet in most cases the union trade companies have to compete for bid contracts with non-union shops for the lowest bid.

I was a pretty anti-union guy (except for miners) before I began doing construction engineering. Now if I could I would restrict all my contracts to union-only contractors. And I would get a better product. There are some good non-union contractors and some areas (like Minnesota) that are batshit crazy union areas, but overall union contractors give a much better product for a competitive price. (Most non-government contracts are low bid.) That's been hard for me to swallow, but I've now changed 180 degrees to be totally in favor of trade unions. I'm still generally opposed to unions of non-skilled or semi-skilled workers, where unions serve more to artificially inflate wages than to provide any benefit to the company, but for skilled or dangerous work I've become a big union advocate.

Meh - If and when I have a choice - I would and do chose to work with a non-union contractor if the situation allows for it. I get a better installation, more cooperation, and a more flexible timeline. This becomes especially important when you Construction guys squeeze us Controls guys timeline

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Being a little guy doesnt close the door as much as being a big guy can open them.

gov't seems to be moving away from the low bidder in construction, too many problems.

No doubt it opens doors when you big - however what prev wage does is help the big guys compete with the little guys because it takes away the cost advantage.

Sure, the low doesn't and shouldn't always get the bid but again trying to attribute "problems" to price isn't correct. As noted, there can be and are problems with higher priced ones as well.

 

[nobodyknows]

Nope - I just don't think it's right for unions to try to force people to pay dues when they don't want to be in the union. You see, the libs are trying to force people to pay with this sort of legislation. It's just plain wrong and goes against the spirit of freedom.

lol, yeah as I've stated before you libs will always thing I'm wrong or stupid when you don't even try to understand what I post and instead replace it with your asinine assumptions. But hey - you libs keep it up...

You're the one not trying to understand the others position. You really have no clue as to how much unions have benifited the working class, even the people who never payed union dues and don't beleive in unions have bennifited from unions. Are they perfect? Hell no but they are better then nothi8ng by a long shot.

I don't belong to a union but as someone who worked his whole life in a right to work state without one, I would have loved to have had the chance to be in one. If you don't have a union to back you up then when there's a prolem it's just you, the little guy against a corporation full of cheats, liars, ass kissers, and lawyers clawing their way up the corporate ladder and every last one of them is like you who would sell the little guy down the river in a heartbeat to further his own agenda. It's obvious to me that you're just a selfish little bitch worried about your own reimbusment and to hell with everyone else.

I know in your conceited little brain you're so proud of that you think you can negoiate your own deal, but what you're not experienced enough to see is how a the unions before us have helped you to be able to negoiate with a coporation. Either that or you're so conceited you think you could do it all by yourself which is funny as hell IMO.

Now, what was that you were saying about assine assumptions??

 

[bctbct]

No doubt it opens doors when you big - however what prev wage does is help the big guys compete with the little guys because it takes away the cost advantage.

Sure, the low doesn't and shouldn't always get the bid but again trying to attribute "problems" to price isn't correct. As noted, there can be and are problems with higher priced ones as well.

Well I would rather we pay a contractor $3.2 million to build a $3 million bridge than pay a little guy $2.6 million to build a $3 million bridge.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You're the one not trying to understand the others position. You really have no clue as to how much unions have benifited the working class, even the people who never payed union dues and don't beleive in unions have bennifited from unions. Are they perfect? Hell no but they are better then nothi8ng by a long shot.

I don't belong to a union but as someone who worked his whole life in a right to work state without one, I would have loved to have had the chance to be in one. If you don't have a union to back you up then when there's a prolem it's just you, the little guy against a corporation full of cheats, liars, ass kissers, and lawyers clawing their way up the corporate ladder and every last one of them is like you who would sell the little guy down the river in a heartbeat to further his own agenda. It's obvious to me that you're just a selfish little bitch worried about your own reimbusment and to hell with everyone else.

I know in your conceited little brain you're so proud of that you think you can negoiate your own deal, but what you're not experienced enough to see is how a the unions before us have helped you to be able to negoiate with a coporation. Either that or you're so conceited you think you could do it all by yourself which is funny as hell IMO.

Now, what was that you were saying about assine assumptions??

Yawn... Same old tired BS of the union fluffers. Yes, I understand and fully acknowledge what unions USED to do. Now they have become what they fought against though.

Ah yes, it's always the little innocent guy vs the EVIL corporate guy... :roll; well however you want to frame it - why would anyone want to work for a company that doesn't treat them right? It just doesn't make sense to help them make more money if you feel they are bad/evil/etc.

lol, yep the same old BS - blah blah blah. What exactly has a union done for society lately? That's right - nothing. They had their place back in the day but now there is little use for them.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Well I would rather we pay a contractor $3.2 million to build a $3 million bridge than pay a little guy $2.6 million to build a $3 million bridge.

Even if the little guy can show a history of being able to handle/complete such a project?

 

[nobodyknows]

fluff, fluff, fluff.

If you got nothing but fluff just admit it. It's not like I'll be surprised, no??

All I can see you doing is trying to deny the little innocent guys the same access to play the system the way the big evil corporations do every single day.

Dismissed.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

If you got nothing but fluff just admit it. It's not like I'll be surprised, no??

I addressed your post. If you have a response to what I posted then please go right ahead and directly respond - otherwise I'll just have to assume you got nothing.

 

[nobodyknows]

I addressed your post. If you have a response to what I posted then please go right ahead and directly respond - otherwise I'll just have to assume you got nothing.

You've addressed nothing but your ego and conceit. Thank you for that though.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You've addressed nothing but your ego and conceit. Thank you for that though.

Nope. Try again.

Yawn... Same old tired BS of the union fluffers. Yes, I understand and fully acknowledge what unions USED to do. Now they have become what they fought against though.

Ah yes, it's always the little innocent guy vs the EVIL corporate guy... :roll; well however you want to frame it - why would anyone want to work for a company that doesn't treat them right? It just doesn't make sense to help them make more money if you feel they are bad/evil/etc.

lol, yep the same old BS - blah blah blah. What exactly has a union done for society lately? That's right - nothing. They had their place back in the day but now there is little use for them.

 

[werepossum]

Meh - If and when I have a choice - I would and do chose to work with a non-union contractor if the situation allows for it. I get a better installation, more cooperation, and a more flexible timeline. This becomes especially important when you Construction guys squeeze us Controls guys timeline

Hey! I'm not the guy squeezing your time line, I'm the guy who doesn't give you enough room and enough information!