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Failure to Launch. Coast Guard building program sinks the Coast Guard.

techs

Lifer
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/09/us/09ship.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Billions Later, Plan to Remake the Coast Guard Fleet Stumbles

Four years after the Coast Guard began an effort to replace nearly its entire fleet of ships, planes and helicopters, the modernization program heralded as a model of government innovation is foundering.

The initial venture ? converting rusting 110-foot patrol boats, the workhorses of the Coast Guard, into more versatile 123-foot cutters ? has been canceled after hull cracks and engine failures made the first eight boats unseaworthy.

Plans to build a new class of 147-foot ships with an innovative hull have been halted after the design was found to be flawed.

And the first completed new ship ? a $564 million behemoth christened last month ? has structural weaknesses that some Coast Guard engineers believe may threaten its safety and limit its life span, unless costly repairs are made.

The problems have helped swell the costs of the fleet-building program to a projected $24 billion, from $17 billion, and delayed the arrival of any new ships or aircraft.

That has compromised the Coast Guard?s ability to fulfill its mission, which greatly expanded after the 2001 attacks to include guarding the nation?s shores against terrorists. The service has been forced to cut back on patrols and, at times, ignore tips from other federal agencies about drug smugglers. The difficulties will only grow more acute in the next few years as old boats fail and replacements are not ready.

Instead of doing it piecemeal, the Coast Guard decided to package everything, in hopes that the fleet would be better integrated and its multibillion price would command attention from a Congress and White House traditionally more focused on other military branches. And instead of managing the project itself, the Coast Guard hired Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, two of the nation?s largest military contractors, to plan, supervise and deliver the new vessels and helicopters.

And the contractors failed to fulfill their obligation to make sure the government got the best price, frequently steering work to their subsidiaries or business partners instead of competitors, according to government auditors and people affiliated with the program.

Even some of the smaller Deepwater projects raise questions about management. The radios placed in small, open boats were not waterproof and immediately shorted out, for example. Electronics equipment costing millions of dollars is still being installed in the new cutter, even though it will be ripped out because the Coast Guard does not want it. An order of eight small, inflatable boats cost an extra half-million dollars because the purchase passed through four layers of contractors.



You really should read the whole article. It is a primer on how NOT to defend your country.
What was the Bush administration THINKING when it put the contractors in charge of the contracts???



 
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Wow, inept contractors, massive fiscal waste and the GOP all seem tied at the hip. What a bunch of colossal f-ups.

Every Republican Politician should be in jail.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Wow, inept contractors, massive fiscal waste and the GOP all seem tied at the hip. What a bunch of colossal f-ups.

Every Republican Politician should be in jail.
So the Dems can have a free hand in destroying the country.

You rail against what the Repubs have done when in complete control; yet you are comfortable with the Dems in complete control. 😕

Apparently you have not learns much from politics over the past 6 years 🙁

 
One man's pork is another man's job---lots of ways to cut up pork pie---which is the staple diet of repubs and dems---but we are supposed to have a defense department that makes sure that things get done efficently---another area where---you were doing a hecka of job Rummy---Alas poor Yorick---I knew him well.---will the next guy be another dumbell?

This also a case where regulation could work---with democrats usually for governmental regulations---and repubs against---and when you gut regulations---you often get a collassaL FAILURE--like a S&L bailout--or an Enron---or a fleecing like the California power crisis--or the Coast guard rebuilding program.
 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Wow, inept contractors, massive fiscal waste and the GOP all seem tied at the hip. What a bunch of colossal f-ups.

Every Republican Politician should be in jail.
So the Dems can have a free hand in destroying the country.

You rail against what the Repubs have done when in complete control; yet you are comfortable with the Dems in complete control. 😕

Apparently you have not learns much from politics over the past 6 years 🙁

If they pulled the same sh!t then they join the Republicans in jail.
 
What was the Bush administration THINKING when it put the contractors in charge of the contracts???

Wow. What were you thinking, to make a comment like that?? You do realize, don't you, that the president and his closest advisors do NOT oversee all the government contracts written? They sorta have more important work to do, and leave that to contracting "specialists", who are supposedly trained to do the job.

While I don't defend such a colossal f-up on the part of the contracting specialists, it's not entirely their fault. Through decades of government beaurocracy, they have slowly but surely taken what was once a job held by senior people with tons of experience (but usually no college degree), and turned it into a job that you can't touch without a bachelor's degree, but don't have to have any experience to fill the position. So what we have nowadays is a bunch of "specialists" that are writing contracts without a frikkin clue of what they're writing, or whether that contract will fulfill the needs of the government. This is neither the sole fault of the republicans or the democrats, but another example of mindless beaurocracy in action. Blaming it on the Bush administration shows nothing but your absolute intolerance towards the president, and ineptness in doing any sort of real investigation of the story.
Exerpts from the story:
the Coast Guard hired Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman
the COAST GUARD hired the contractors......NOT the Bush administration.......
Insufficient oversight by the Coast Guard
WOW......once again, it must have been by presidential decree, right?? :roll:
And the contractors failed to fulfill their obligation to make sure the government got the best price
right there, if they were tasked in the contract to make certain the taxpayer got the best value for their money, and failed to do so, they're in violation of the terms of the contract, and will eventually end up paying back some serious change for reparations (it's happened in the past, when contractors were found to be overcharging the government, and there's no reason to suspect it won't happen again in the future).

Seriously, if you want to talk smack about the president, you're going to have to work much harder at it than you obviously did with this thread!

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every WASHINGTON Politician should be in jail.

Corrected for reality there, Dave! :laugh:
 
Originally posted by: marvdmartian
Blaming it on the Bush administration shows nothing but your absolute intolerance towards the president, and ineptness in doing any sort of real investigation of the story.

Awwwwwwww another Bush Apologist to his rescue, how :heart:
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: marvdmartian
Blaming it on the Bush administration shows nothing but your absolute intolerance towards the president, and ineptness in doing any sort of real investigation of the story.

Awwwwwwww another Bush Apologist to his rescue, how :heart:

What a way to back up your opinion with facts :disgust:

The left can bullcrap for days about the "evil of the Republicans" yet they can't even back up a word they say.
 
I find it amazing that nothing that has happened from Iraq to Katrina to a seriously mismanaged Coast Guard can be blamed in the least to the "decider"
 
Umm, techs you partisan moran, since you brought up Katrina - the Coast Guard did a FANTASTIC job with Katrina...how does your tiny brain reconcile that fact?
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Umm, techs you partisan moran, since you brought up Katrina - the Coast Guard did a FANTASTIC job with Katrina...how does your tiny brain reconcile that fact?
The Coast Guard was using the equipment it had before the Bushies decided to let the defense contractors run wild.

 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Umm, techs you partisan moran, since you brought up Katrina - the Coast Guard did a FANTASTIC job with Katrina...how does your tiny brain reconcile that fact?

Maybe you should save the morans . . .

The Coast Guard did a good job . . . it's only fantastic in comparison to the FEMA debacle.
 
Exactly what I'd expect from Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, (and Boeing, GD, Raytheon, etc) These two have so much money thrown at them regardless of their performance, that they stopped caring long ago. All these contracts are set up to send as much money to those companies as possible and expect as little in results as possible.
They know the government may be upset at them, maybe cancel a contract, but sooner or later, they'll get their cut. They have people on rotation between the Pentagon and their headquarters sending contracts their way.
 
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: alchemize
Umm, techs you partisan moran, since you brought up Katrina - the Coast Guard did a FANTASTIC job with Katrina...how does your tiny brain reconcile that fact?
The Coast Guard was using the equipment it had before the Bushies decided to let the defense contractors run wild.

Ah - I see. Would you please mind quoting from the article (or any other) where the bush administration - and not the coast guard - made the decision to sub-contract through the defense contractors? The crickets are-a-creakin!
 
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: alchemize
Umm, techs you partisan moran, since you brought up Katrina - the Coast Guard did a FANTASTIC job with Katrina...how does your tiny brain reconcile that fact?

Maybe you should save the morans . . .

The Coast Guard did a good job . . . it's only fantastic in comparison to the FEMA debacle.

Another partisan joins in. OK - I'll bite. Please define how the coast guard could have improved from it's "good" job to "fantastic" with Katrina? :roll:

The crickets-are-a-chirpin!
 
Originally posted by: techs
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/09/us/09ship.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Billions Later, Plan to Remake the Coast Guard Fleet Stumbles

Four years after the Coast Guard began an effort to replace nearly its entire fleet of ships, planes and helicopters, the modernization program heralded as a model of government innovation is foundering.

The initial venture ? converting rusting 110-foot patrol boats, the workhorses of the Coast Guard, into more versatile 123-foot cutters ? has been canceled after hull cracks and engine failures made the first eight boats unseaworthy.

Plans to build a new class of 147-foot ships with an innovative hull have been halted after the design was found to be flawed.

And the first completed new ship ? a $564 million behemoth christened last month ? has structural weaknesses that some Coast Guard engineers believe may threaten its safety and limit its life span, unless costly repairs are made.

The problems have helped swell the costs of the fleet-building program to a projected $24 billion, from $17 billion, and delayed the arrival of any new ships or aircraft.

That has compromised the Coast Guard?s ability to fulfill its mission, which greatly expanded after the 2001 attacks to include guarding the nation?s shores against terrorists. The service has been forced to cut back on patrols and, at times, ignore tips from other federal agencies about drug smugglers. The difficulties will only grow more acute in the next few years as old boats fail and replacements are not ready.

Instead of doing it piecemeal, the Coast Guard decided to package everything, in hopes that the fleet would be better integrated and its multibillion price would command attention from a Congress and White House traditionally more focused on other military branches. And instead of managing the project itself, the Coast Guard hired Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, two of the nation?s largest military contractors, to plan, supervise and deliver the new vessels and helicopters.

And the contractors failed to fulfill their obligation to make sure the government got the best price, frequently steering work to their subsidiaries or business partners instead of competitors, according to government auditors and people affiliated with the program.

Even some of the smaller Deepwater projects raise questions about management. The radios placed in small, open boats were not waterproof and immediately shorted out, for example. Electronics equipment costing millions of dollars is still being installed in the new cutter, even though it will be ripped out because the Coast Guard does not want it. An order of eight small, inflatable boats cost an extra half-million dollars because the purchase passed through four layers of contractors.



You really should read the whole article. It is a primer on how NOT to defend your country.
What was the Bush administration THINKING when it put the contractors in charge of the contracts???


PORK, PORK, AND MORE PORK! Just what did you expect from our faith based Gov. Running the system into the ground comes before running it efficiently.

 
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Wow, inept contractors, massive fiscal waste and the GOP all seem tied at the hip. What a bunch of colossal f-ups.

Every Republican Politician should be in jail.
So the Dems can have a free hand in destroying the country.

You rail against what the Repubs have done when in complete control; yet you are comfortable with the Dems in complete control. 😕

Apparently you have not learns much from politics over the past 6 years 🙁

OH! YES! The Dems are much more at odds with other and do much less damage when in power then have the organized mob of idiots called Republicans.
 
Originally posted by: marvdmartian
What was the Bush administration THINKING when it put the contractors in charge of the contracts???

Wow. What were you thinking, to make a comment like that?? You do realize, don't you, that the president and his closest advisors do NOT oversee all the government contracts written? They sorta have more important work to do, and leave that to contracting "specialists", who are supposedly trained to do the job.

While I don't defend such a colossal f-up on the part of the contracting specialists, it's not entirely their fault. Through decades of government beaurocracy, they have slowly but surely taken what was once a job held by senior people with tons of experience (but usually no college degree), and turned it into a job that you can't touch without a bachelor's degree, but don't have to have any experience to fill the position. So what we have nowadays is a bunch of "specialists" that are writing contracts without a frikkin clue of what they're writing, or whether that contract will fulfill the needs of the government. This is neither the sole fault of the republicans or the democrats, but another example of mindless beaurocracy in action. Blaming it on the Bush administration shows nothing but your absolute intolerance towards the president, and ineptness in doing any sort of real investigation of the story.
Exerpts from the story:
the Coast Guard hired Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman
the COAST GUARD hired the contractors......NOT the Bush administration.......
Insufficient oversight by the Coast Guard
WOW......once again, it must have been by presidential decree, right?? :roll:
And the contractors failed to fulfill their obligation to make sure the government got the best price
right there, if they were tasked in the contract to make certain the taxpayer got the best value for their money, and failed to do so, they're in violation of the terms of the contract, and will eventually end up paying back some serious change for reparations (it's happened in the past, when contractors were found to be overcharging the government, and there's no reason to suspect it won't happen again in the future).

Seriously, if you want to talk smack about the president, you're going to have to work much harder at it than you obviously did with this thread!

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Every WASHINGTON Politician should be in jail.

Corrected for reality there, Dave! :laugh:

The Bush Whitehouse seems to set the standard, now does it not? No blame. No accountability. No responsibility.
 
Well here's something:

In March 2004, the GAO (General Accounting Office) GAO recommended that the Secretary of Homeland Security (Tom Ridge, a Republican and appointed by Bush) direct the Commandant of the Coast Guard to take a number of actions to improve Deepwater management and contractor oversight.

Over a year and a half into the Deepwater contract, the key components needed to manage the program and oversee the system integrator?s performance have not been effectively implemented. Integrated product teams, the Coast Guard?s primary tool for overseeing the system integrator,
have struggled to effectively collaborate and accomplish their missions. They have been hampered by changing membership, understaffing, insufficient training, and inadequate communication among members. In addition, the Coast Guard has not adequately addressed the frequent turnover of personnel in the program and the transition from existing to Deepwater assets.

Link

So Bush-appointed, GOP-for-life, Tom Ridge evidently didn't do a very good job of managing all that 9/11 money going to the Coast Guard. Big surprise there. In fact that GAO issued a string of warnings similar to the one I linked above. Evidently, those warnings of contractor abuse and lack of oversight fell on Tom's oh-so-deaf ears.
 
Not that I necessarily approve of the process, but this type of contracting and sub-contracting has been going on in defense projects for decades, along with the typical and predictable cost overruns. Pretending this is something new when the $600 toilet seat has been a running joke since Truman.... I don't care if you want to make fun of the Bush admin, but FFS don't make yourself look stupid doing it.

edit: ask yourselves, who builds the nuclear subs? The Navy? or Electric Boat?
 
So who thinks Lockheed will actually produce a spaceship that can get off the ground anywhere near the budget given to them by NASA? This seems to be the SOP for Lockheed on just about every contract. One theory: They are always the last company to call engineers in for an interview - the usually call May grads in MAY when all of the good ones took offers in Dec, so they get the crap that can't get a job anywhere else (I know about 30 people they called for an interview within a month of graduation).
 
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