Factory Reject? HD5850 w/ 720 Shaders?

[Elfear]

I bought a pair of 5850's, both from Newegg, both Sapphire. I've been having a heck of a time getting them to work in Crossfire and the drivers are just acting super klugey. So I downloaded GPU-Z and low and behold one of my cards is detected as only having 720 shaders! My other card works great. Detected by drivers, runs 3D apps great, and has 1440 shaders according to GPU-Z.

I keep thinking there must be some software glitch because the retail boxes the cards came in look identical. The bios on the defective card is listed as the Cypress Pro (5850). All other parameters of the card are the same as reported by GPU-Z except the # of shaders, the Pixel Fillrate (reported as 1.6 G Pixels/s), the ROPs (reported as 4), and the Texture Fillrate (reported as 1.8 G Pixels/s). Die size is correct, # of transistors is correct, etc.

I flashed the bios to the unlocked MSI version and I get the same issues. I have it flashed back to the original bios now and I'm not sure what to think of the situation. Any ideas?

 

[BFG10K]

720 shaders? That sound suspicious since that?s exactly how much a 5750 has.

Are the 3D core & memory clocks the same on both cards?

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
720 shaders? That sound suspicious since that?s exactly how much a 5750 has.

Are the 3D core & memory clocks the same on both cards?

It lists the default clocks as 725/1000 and current clocks as 400/900. I took my good card out so I can't immediately verify what GPU-Z reports for it.

I just flashed to the MSI bios again after redownloading it. Same weird GPU-Z results.

 

[BFG10K]

725/1000 is correct for a 5850. How many ROPs/TMUs does your utility detect on it?

It?s almost like your second SIMD cluster isn?t active on the card, which is why it has exactly half of the shaders it should have.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
725/1000 is correct for a 5850. How many ROPs/TMUs does your utility detect on it?

It?s almost like your second SIMD cluster isn?t active on the card, which is why it has exactly half of the shaders it should have.

GPU-Z reports 4 ROPs ?? That wouldn't even be right for a 5750, maybe a 10-yr old IGP.

Just tried an Asus bios and the device ID and P/N changed and my clocks are 850/1200. Wonder if someone switched a 5870 bios in there by accident. Shaders are still showing up as 720.

 

[BFG10K]

Each ROP cluster has four ROPs, so if your utility is counting clusters, it means you have 16 ROPs, which is again half of what you should have (32).

I think the card is faulty; it sounds like your second SIMD block either isn?t working or isn?t being detected by the driver. I?m betting your TMU count is also 36 too.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Each ROP cluster has four ROPs, so if your utility is counting clusters, it means you have 16 ROPs, which is again half of what you should have (32).

I think the card is faulty; it sounds like your second SIMD block either isn?t working or isn?t being detected by the driver. I?m betting your TMU count is also 36 too.

Do you know if GPU-Z is counting clusters or actual ROPs? I'll have to throw my other card back in and see what it says.

 

[LCD123]

Your GPU-Z may be too old to properly detect new cards. Why not run some benchmarks with each card seperately and see how they perform? Would be interesting.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Each ROP cluster has four ROPs, so if your utility is counting clusters, it means you have 16 ROPs, which is again half of what you should have (32).

I think the card is faulty; it sounds like your second SIMD block either isn?t working or isn?t being detected by the driver. I?m betting your TMU count is also 36 too.

Do you know if GPU-Z is counting clusters or actual ROPs? I'll have to throw my other card back in and see what it says.

GPU-Z should show 32 ROPs for a 5850.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: LCD123
Your GPU-Z may be too old to properly detect new cards. Why not run some benchmarks with each card seperately and see how they perform? Would be interesting.

I'd be more inclined to think it was GPU-Z reporting the wrong info too but it reports the correct # of shaders and ROPs for my other 5850. I'm using the latest version, v0.3.6.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: LCD123
Your GPU-Z may be too old to properly detect new cards. Why not run some benchmarks with each card seperately and see how they perform? Would be interesting.

I'd try this. Run some benches, do a little gaming with the good card. Record your FPS results, then switch out the cards and repeat. See if the performance is near identical or way off.

I don't believe GPU-z actually looks at what the card has and reports it, I'm pretty sure it just looks to see what you have installed and reports the results from it's own database of specs/info.

If worse comes to worse, contact Newegg and explain the situation, I'm sure they'll swap it out for you if you bought it recently.

Two 5850's, nice rig! :thumbsup:

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Do you know if GPU-Z is counting clusters or actual ROPs? I'll have to throw my other card back in and see what it says.

Put your other card in and see what value you get.

If you get 8 then it?s counting clusters, and your other card is probably broken.

If you get 32 then it?s counting ROPs, but your other card is still likely broken.

If you get 4 then the application is broken.

 

[thilanliyan]

I agree with SLowspyder...maybe the BIOS for that card is reporting something wrong? Or do you have 2 identical cards?

 

[happy medium]

Wouldn't the one card have 128 bit memory (if it was a 5770) and a real 5850 have 256 bit? Mabe it's a .... 5830. j/k

 

[T2k]

Sell it as exclusive engineering sample on eBay, either right now or 10 years form now...

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: T2k
Sell it as exclusive engineering sample on eBay, either right now or 10 years form now...

Nice. :laugh:

As far as gaming with both cards separately, I thought of doing that but drivers won't load for the klugey card. That is both for the Windows 7 default drivers and the newest Cat Beta 11s. After the drivers install and the system reboots, the card just locks up at the Windows "Welcome" screen.

Here is a screenshot of GPU-Z. Kinda weird that some parameters are correct and others aren't. I'm thinking BFG is right and that half of the SIMD arrays are disabled somehow.

Originally posted by: thilanliyan
I agree with SLowspyder...maybe the BIOS for that card is reporting something wrong? Or do you have 2 identical cards?

The cards are physically identical as far as I can tell.

 

[Modular]

Defective card from the sound of it.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Elfear
Wonder if someone switched a 5870 bios in there by accident. Shaders are still showing up as 720.

I flashed the bios to the unlocked MSI version and I get the same issues. I have it flashed back to the original bios now and I'm not sure what to think of the situation. Any ideas?

Yeah, quit destroying cards and RMA'ing them.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Elfear
Wonder if someone switched a 5870 bios in there by accident. Shaders are still showing up as 720.

I flashed the bios to the unlocked MSI version and I get the same issues. I have it flashed back to the original bios now and I'm not sure what to think of the situation. Any ideas?

Yeah, quit destroying cards and RMA'ing them.

How have I done anything to destroy the card and why would you think this is a regular occurrence for me as implied by saying cards?

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Elfear
Wonder if someone switched a 5870 bios in there by accident. Shaders are still showing up as 720.

I flashed the bios to the unlocked MSI version and I get the same issues. I have it flashed back to the original bios now and I'm not sure what to think of the situation. Any ideas?

Yeah, quit destroying cards and RMA'ing them.

How have I done anything to destroy the card and why would you think this is a regular occurrence for me as implied by saying cards?

Because you make zero sense.

The first fail came when you said that both are loading to windows in crossfire mode.

The second came when you stated you flashed bios on the cards. Who starts flashing a bios on a card when it will void the warranty and it will not even function properly.

The third came when you said the card in crossfire mode does not work standalone.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Elfear
The cards are physically identical as far as I can tell.

No what I meant was...are both cards by the same manufacturer (different manufacturers could have different BIOSes and flashing could have screwed something up?)? Did you take a look at the specs BEFORE flashing?

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Because you make zero sense.

The first fail came when you said that both are loading to windows in crossfire mode.

The second came when you stated you flashed bios on the cards. Who starts flashing a bios on a card when it will void the warranty and it will not even function properly.

The third came when you said the card in crossfire mode does not work standalone.

Maybe go back and look at what I wrote. I can boot into Windows with the klugey card too unless drivers are present and then it hangs at the "Welcome" screen. Crossfire results were similar. I can boot into Windows but when I try to load drivers I get weird issues. If there is even a hint of ATI entries in the registry it will hang. I have to boot into Safe Mode and remove all traces of ATI before it will get into Windows.

In regards to voiding the warranty, I actually looked it up because, contrary to what you think, my integrity is not worth $259. Here is the relevant part:

1) # Product Warranty will not be valid even if returned after purchased for the following cases:

Products that are defaced or physically damaged and modified by customer.
Products that become non-functional due to customer improper use.
Products that cannot be verified as Sapphire products.
Products that do not have a matching serial number between the product and the original receipt.
Products not sold from our official distributors or resellers.

I have had issues with the 2nd card ever since I got it. I even traded out motherboards to try and resolve the issue because it honestly never crossed my mind that one of the cards had a physical defect. I've never even heard of SIMD arrays being defective and only registering half the shaders. I flashed the bios in an effort to correct the problem but the issue seems deeper than mere firmware as evidenced by three different bioses showing the same # of shaders. The product did not become non-functional as a result of my doing.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: thilanliyan

Originally posted by: Elfear
The cards are physically identical as far as I can tell.

No what I meant was...are both cards by the same manufacturer (different manufacturers could have different BIOSes and flashing could have screwed something up?)? Did you take a look at the specs BEFORE flashing?

Ah, sorry. Yes both are Sapphire cards. I never looked at the GPU-Z specs before I flashed but the card has given me issues from the get go. I'm not a guru by any means but I have had a quite a few years building computers on a professional level for a university and as a side business. I have never had an issue like this where the card would not respond to drivers. I tried everything I could think of before flashing to get the card to work in a 3D environment or even accept drivers correctly. Safe Mode with DriveSweeper, all overclocked settings back to stock (for cpu), multiple Catalyst driver releases, etc. Nothing worked.
The bios flash worked perfectly on the 1st card but had no effect on the 2nd klugey card other than to change the manufacturer to "MSI" on GPU-Z.

 

[thilanliyan]

I'd return the card then if all that didn't work.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: thilanliyan
I'd return the card then if all that didn't work.

Yeah, that's all I can think as well. It's too bad because it probably means I'll receive a replacement sometime around Christmas with Newegg being OOS.