Facility 1391: Israel's secret prison

[Matrices]

The last post was farcical: you merely state a number of opinions in bulletin format. Zionism is racism. It's an ideology that proposes the supremacy of one "race" above others. This is not in doubt: Israel doesn't even have a constitution, but a set of ridiculously racist laws, whereby, for instance, any Jew anywhere in the world can "return" to Israel, never mind that modern-day Israel only began to exist about 50 years ago and has been predominantly populated by Christian and Muslim Arabs since 600AD. The number of Jews inside actual Palestine until 1900, when European Jews started emigrating there in small numbers, was negligible. Under the same laws, the Palestinians who had actually been living in Israel for centuries were forced out by rape, murder, torture, and robbery.

Don't take my word for it, read your Israeli historians: Shlaim, Morris, Pappe, Sternhell, etc.

Suicide bombings are nothing but a trickle of terror in the vast ocean of Israeli criminality. Just like the anti-colonial uprising against French in Algeria or Afrikaners in South Africa, it is the violent response of the oppressed against the oppressor. Anyone who opines Israeli victims of suicide bombing while casually leaving out the fact that more than FIVE times as many Palestinians have died at Israeli hands is only proving himself to be a racist - our dead, though smaller, count more than all yours.

And then there's the small fact that the existence of Israel is predicated on the destruction of existing Palestinian homes and villages. Moshe Dayan, Israeli war hero, actually admitted this in public.

 

[Matrices]

BrooBroo's ability to quote mass amounts of disinformation is amusing. Notice how my selection of sources is Israeli and Jewish historians. All he quotes is a couple trash local US newspapers owned by right-wingers (Baltimore Sun) and Zionist websites.

There is zero scholarship in any of that nonsense. The point is simple: Israel has been indicted and exposed by its own scholars and professors of history as a colonizing, terrorizing state.

 

[Matrices]

Moreover, Zionism was in fact allied with Fascism, including Nazism. This is an historical fact. Read Israeli historian Tom Segev's "The Seventh Million", or Boas Evron, you can probably find it at Borders. Some Zionists were allied with Mussolini and ran around in Brown Shirts. Others appealed to form an alliance with the Nazis.

The reason was simple: as a movement of sell-out, opportunistic racists, and actually a tiny sect in the Jewish community until after WWII, Zionism saw European anti-Semitism as a great catalyst for its own goals--getting the Jews out of Europe, and into Palestine. In truth almost no Jews were attracted to Zionism until the Nazi onslaught began in earnest: the number of Jews who left Europe to Palestine from 1870 to 1933 was maybe 7% of the Diaspora.

 

[0roo0roo]

you speak of nazi collaboration by zionists yet its utter bullsh*t. you can't even get simple facts straight, hitler refused to meet with the zionists who wanted to see if they could rescue german jews in return for not boycotting germany since there was a perception of "jewish world control" feared by the nazi's. the palestinians were against the allies in both world wars, they always chose wrong. they allied against hitler and agreed to impliment his final solution. They also backed the Soviets in the Cold War, Saddam in the Gulf War, and they celebrated in the streets on 9/11

n truth almost no Jews were attracted to Zionism until the Nazi onslaught began in earnest: the number of Jews who left Europe to Palestine from 1870 to 1933 was maybe 7% of the Diaspora.

your ignorance knows no bounds does it? if the jews of germany had known it would come to death camps do you think any would have stayed in germany? why did most stay in germany, perhaps because they had no clue how far it would go? your so twisted its just sick.


the palestinian mufti and arafats mentor was on Mussolinis payroll, he worked hard to bring iraq into the war against the allies. he was greeted with happiness in facist italy, and he also hid himself at a japanese embassy once. he organized the arab legion that fought the american invasion of africa.

Hajj Amin a top palestinian leader was recieved by Hitler himself.

[Start Nazi Document Quote]

?The Führer then made the following statement to the Mufti, enjoining him to lock it in the uttermost depths of his heart

1. He (the Führer) would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist empire in Europe.

2. At some moment which was impossible to set exactly today but which in any event was not distant, the German armies would in the course of this struggle reach the southern exit from Caucasia.

3. As soon as this had happened, the Führer would on his own give the Arab world the assurance that its hour of liberation had arrived. *Germany?s objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of British power* [my emphasis]. In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. It would then be his task to set off the Arab operations which he had secretly prepared. When that time had come, Germany could also be indifferent to French reaction to such a declaration.?

[End Nazi Document Quote]

The same document states that the Mufti, ?was fully reassured and satisfied by the words which he had heard from the Chief of the German State.?

That is, he was ?fully reassured and satisfied? that Hitler would (1) help him carry out *the destruction of all Jews* living in the Arab sphere and, (2) based on that Final Solution, make him "the most authoritative spokesman in the Arab world."

To call the Mufti a ?millenarian terrorist? doesn't quite do him justice.

[Start Encyclopedia Of The Holocaust Quote] [14a]

??[The Mufti Hajj Amin al] Husseini made his contribution to the axis war effort in his capacity as a Muslim, rather than as an Arab leader, by recruiting and organizing *in record time* [my emphasis], during the spring of 1943, Bosnian Muslim battalions in Croatia comprising some twenty thousand men. These Muslim volunteer units, called Hanjar (sword),[14b] were put in Waffen-SS units, fought Yugoslav partisans in Bosnia, and carried out police and security duties in Hungary. *They participated in the massacre of civilians in Bosnia and volunteered to join in the hunt for Jews in Croatia...* [my emphasis] The Germans made a point of publicizing the fact that Husseini had flown from Berlin to Sarajevo for the sole purpose of giving his blessing to the Muslim army and inspecting its arms and training exercises.?

[End Encyclopedia Of The Holocaust Quote]

In other words, the Mufti enthusiastically participated in the Final Solution. The civilians whom his Waffen SS troops hunted included thousands of Serbian and Roma ('Gypsies') who were killed with a brutality that shocked the German Nazis.

After the war, the Yugoslav government issued a warrant for the Mufti?s arrest for war crimes. . .

The Western allies captured him in Germany. They should have tried him for war crimes at Nuremberg or turned him over to Yugoslavia. Instead, he mysteriously escaped to Cairo.

[Start excerpt from New York Post, 23 Feb, 1948] [60]

"In August 1945, Yugoslavia asked that the ex-Mufti be placed on the official list of war criminals. What is the reason for the failure to bring him to trial in Germany, where he was captured when Germany collapsed?

?according to the Charter of the International Tribunal at Nuremberg, the ex-Mufti is a criminal on all three counts, for crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity."
[End excerpt from New York Post, 23 Feb, 1948]

Was the Mufti discreetly allowed to escape? Did the Mufti's World War II enemies find new uses for him in the Middle East now that a new era had begun? If they did, this would be consistent with how Britain used the Mufti *before* the war, for in fact it was the British colonial government that elevated Hajj Amin al Husseini to the status of "Mufti."




as for desent within the jewish community, that is proof of nothing but the fact that the israelis value freedom of thought, something completely lost on palestinians. its not hard to see why, the racist hatred in indoctrinated through school, media, leadership, and religion. propaganda of hatred on a scale not seen since hitler. not to mention any palestinian who opposes his leadership dies a horrible death at the hand of his people.


There is zero scholarship in any of your nonsense.

 

[0roo0roo]

Anyone who opines Israeli victims of suicide bombing while casually leaving out the fact that more than FIVE times as many Palestinians have died at Israeli hands is only proving himself to be a racist - our dead, though smaller, count more than all yours.

course you didn't bother reading did you, a little racism through ignorance is your deal. the facts speak for themselves. israeli deaths are not the same as palestinian deaths. exactly as civilain deaths are not the same as deaths of combatants. it is you who ignore statistics, facts. when 30+% of israeli casualties are women, yet 95% of palestinian casualties are male, what does that say? seems rather odd if both sides are killing indescriminatly doesn't it?

A few highlights:

80% of Israelis killed were non-combatants; compare with 19% of Palestinians. Doing the math, this is 560 dead Israeli noncombatants, versus 361 Palestinian noncombatants.

55% of Palestinians killed were full/partial combatants or violent protestors; only about 20% of Israelis were in this same category.

"Palestinians are directly responsible for the deaths of at least 253 of their own number -- more than one out of every eight Palestinians killed."

"Women and girls account for 31 percent of all Israelis killed in the conflict, and almost 40 percent of the Israeli noncombatants killed by Palestinians. Palestinian fatalities, in contrast, have been consistently and overwhelmingly (over 95 percent) male."

"Palestinians have killed at least 174 noncombatant Israelis aged 45 and over, while Israelis have killed 65 Palestinian noncombatants in the same age bracket. The ratio is 2.7 to 1."

A large number of Palestinians were killed under "unknown" circumstances: 23% or 437. I count these neither as combatants nor non-combatants. The reader may make either assumption and go over my previous numbers, adding these bodies in according to their personal prejudices.
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=439for charts and details


the fact is, the palestinians have realized long ago that both israeli deaths and palestinian deaths gain them sympathy. a cruel calculus of death.

 

[Matrices]

Whose rear-end did these "statistics" pour out from? Only 19% of all Palestinians killed are civilians? Check in with any major human rights group - Amnesty, HRW - their statistics are the opposite.

Your statistics are also quite laughable on another count: how do you define a Palestinian "terrorist" as apart from a "civilian"? In your racist, white supremacist mindset inherited from the Fascists and South Africans whom the early Zionists and later Israelis politically aligned themselves with at certain junctures (according to Israel's own historians) , all Arabs are just darkies reduced to "terrorists". Because a Palestinian has a gun in his occupied land, and you kill him, you chalk that up as killing a "terrorist".

That is absurd - that person is a patriot. Those militants in the West Bank and Gaza who are fighting the settlements and bulldozers and army outposts--all of which are illegally (under UN and Geneva Accords) stealing more Palestinian land, are patriots for their country, just as Americans fighting British colonialism were patriots. Meanwhile, the Israeli Goliath rumbles around with tanks and bulldozers against a people they disposessed and turned into refugees--which does not even have an army! What a shameful and pathetic spectacle. What black irony for a so-called "Jewish" nation to commit.

Your IDF Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon told the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz last year that Palestinians are a "cancer" to be "amputated" or "treated with chemotherapy". Clearly he borrows his methodology from Hitler.

Anyone who opens up a map of historical Palestine will notice a couple things. One: Israel never existed before 1948, and was invented and carved out by stealing Arab land because of the Holocaust - which the Arabs had nothing to do with. Two: the meager 22% of land that the Palestinians are asking for which was originally stolen from them, over the last ten years, has been destroyed and swamped up by Jewish settlements, filled with Judeo-Nazi fanatics, so that the Palestinian state's viability has been destroyed. All that is left is unfertile land and bulldozed buildings.

These fanatics talk a lot of hubris about "being chosen by God" and that "God gave them this land 2,000 years ago." This is the most illogical and fundamentalist idea - who cares where you were 2,000 years ago?

The Israelis have in reality practiced Lebansbraum and their leadership should be tried at Nuremberg. In fact a lot of their military leaders cannot travel abroad because they would be indicted for war crimes by The Hague. Ariel Sharon himself, mass murder bar-none, was found partly responsible by Israel's own courts for massacring hundreds of Lebanese civilians in 1982.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Matrices
Your statistics are also quite laughable on another count: how do you define a Palestinian "terrorist" as apart from a "civilian"? In your racist, white supremacist mindset inherited from the Fascists and South Africans whom the early Zionists and later Israelis politically aligned themselves with at certain junctures (according to Israel's own historians) , all Arabs are just darkies reduced to "terrorists". Because a Palestinian has a gun in his occupied land, and you kill him, you chalk that up as killing a "terrorist".

That is absurd - that person is a patriot. Those militants in the West Bank and Gaza who are fighting the settlements and bulldozers and army outposts--all of which are illegally (under UN and Geneva Accords) stealing more Palestinian land, are patriots for their country, just as Americans fighting British colonialism were patriots.

How dare you compare the slaughter of innocent women and children going to school to Americans fighting the British Army.

Meanwhile, the Israeli Goliath rumbles around with tanks and bulldozers against a people they disposessed and turned into refugees--which does not even have an army! What a shameful and pathetic spectacle. What black irony for a so-called "Jewish" nation to commit.

Yeah, so shameful to defend your citizens. Get a fvcking clue.

Your IDF Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon told the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz last year that Palestinians are a "cancer" to be "amputated" or "treated with chemotherapy". Clearly he borrows his methodology from Hitler.

Actually, he was talking about the terrorists. Yep, exactly like Hitler.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but it was Hitler who advocated the slaughter of innocent women and children.

Anyone who opens up a map of historical Palestine will notice a couple things. One: Israel never existed before 1948,

Neither did the Plaestinian Authority, or anything remotely like that. The land was British.

and was invented and carved out by stealing Arab land

You must be referring to the British land...

because of the Holocaust - which the Arabs had nothing to do with.

That's true. I won't bring up the Grand Mufti's meetings with Hitler now

Two: the meager 22% of land that the Palestinians are asking for which was originally stolen from them,

Haha. Stolen from them. Because they attacked and lost.

over the last ten years, has been destroyed and swamped up by Jewish settlements, filled with Judeo-Nazi fanatics, so that the Palestinian state's viability has been destroyed. All that is left is unfertile land and bulldozed buildings.

This does not merit a response. You're true colors are starting to show.

These fanatics talk a lot of hubris about "being chosen by God" and that "God gave them this land 2,000 years ago." This is the most illogical and fundamentalist idea - who cares where you were 2,000 years ago?

Where is the cutoff date? When do you stop caring about it? Can I say who cares about the land the Palestinians lived on (which was never theirs) 50 years ago?

The Israelis have in reality practiced Lebansbraum and their leadership should be tried at Nuremberg. In fact a lot of their military leaders cannot travel abroad because they would be indicted for war crimes by The Hague. Ariel Sharon himself, mass murder bar-none, was found partly responsible by Israel's own courts for massacring hundreds of Lebanese civilians in 1982.

Sharon massacred hundreds of Lebanese. You are really clueless. The Israeli court held him responsible for failing to realize that the SLA would take out their revenge on the civillian population.

I doubt I will reply to your answers to my post, because frankly, I've become sick of arguing with people who know nothing about situation yet feel compelled to spew their garbage anyway. I do converse with those who disagree with me but seem somewhat educated about the situation.

 

[PainTrain]

First of all, thank you for the welcome Pers.

Secondly, excellent debate Matrices. Much more sophisticated and informed than I've grown accustomed to during my many months on this particular forum. I hope to see more of that, from both sides of the aisle.

And lastly, Oroo, you're a racist drone and Bush SUCKS

 

[0roo0roo]

lol, so the statistics are wrong right? the palestinians just happen to be composed of an absurd high ratio of males to females which is why the overwhelming majority of their casualties are male huh? 95% male casualties of mostly young men. and the israelis are mostly women with 30% female casualties with normal age distribution range of civilians. laughable huh? or maybe proof one side targets civilians and the other targets militants. prove the numbers wrong.

i also seem to remember cases of palestinians faking funerals/casualties trying to up the body count in cases. carrying a body that falls out of the coffin, gets up and runs away. they aren't above such acts, any and all casualties bolster their cause and they know it. inflating numbers often.

its obvious you didn't bother looking at the site, it lists how it classifies each type of casualty. and age and sex are kinda hard to fudge.

and lastly, paintrain your a racist drone. bush sucks yes, but that doesn't make you any less wrong.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
as fine an example of palestinian propaganda i have ever seen.

Israel admits the existence btw.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

I've been gone for a couple of days and was going to respond to OrooOroo until he went psycho and posted undending quotes from god knows what. I saw some of your sources though. Likud.nl? Good one. I could make a pretty convincing case for my positions if I quoted sites like Islam.org. or Freepalestine.com as well. Finding sources is not hard, finding unbiased ones are. Anyway, it seems that this thread has devolved beyond any further debate. No biggy, there will probably be a new Israel/Pal thread tomorrow and mabye we can keep the discussion objective then.

EDIT: spelling

 

[Matrices]

The Presence has announced himself as a total non-presence in the arena of intelligence. Not an iota of facts, evidence, scholarship, or citations: moral hubris is the watchword of this moral eunuch, ie. "how dare you compare X to Y", and "Hitler and terrorists like killing people!". His arrogance in not engaging arguments is only matched by his ignorance of the subject.

Give me a break. Do you think comparing everyone to Hitler proves anything? I cite Nazism and Fascism only to show one thing, that has been exposed by four Jewish historians, two of whom are Segev and Evron: Zionist group LEHI, in 1933, sent a memo to the Nazis asking to ally with them; Revisionist Zionism (ie. Likud) has its theoretical foundations in Benito Mussolini's Fascism of the 1920s.

Israel, as a state which practices race-supremacy, is definitely racist. Any Jew in the world can get full Israeli citizenship in land legally recognized as Palestinian territory, but the Palestinians bulldozed out of their homes, can't live where they've been for centuries. That is racist, just like South African apartheid.

In fact, Demond Tutu, a black bishop who lead against white supremacy in S. Africa, has openly expressed solidarity with the Palestinians and called Israel apartheid.

I leave you with a telling quote from Ben-Gurion, Israel's first mass-murderer and first PM:

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?" David Ben-Gurion, quoted in "The Jewish Paradox" by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.

 

[ThePresence]

I said before I probably wouldn't respond, and I wont go point by point with you, because your ignorance of the issues at hand is quite astounding. I will say this: my knowledge of the situation comes from firsthand experience in living and serving in Israel, not from some goddamn book or a googled article or two. So please don't preach to me about what you know from sitting in your recliner watching CNN.

Originally posted by: Matrices
The Presence has announced himself as a total non-presence in the arena of intelligence. Not an iota of facts, evidence, scholarship, or citations: moral hubris is the watchword of this moral eunuch, ie. "how dare you compare X to Y", and "Hitler and terrorists like killing people!". His arrogance in not engaging arguments is only matched by his ignorance of the subject.

Give me a break. Do you think comparing everyone to Hitler proves anything? I cite Nazism and Fascism only to show one thing, that has been exposed by four Jewish historians, two of whom are Segev and Evron: Zionist group LEHI, in 1933, sent a memo to the Nazis asking to ally with them; Revisionist Zionism (ie. Likud) has its theoretical foundations in Benito Mussolini's Fascism of the 1920s.

Israel, as a state which practices race-supremacy, is definitely racist. Any Jew in the world can get full Israeli citizenship in land legally recognized as Palestinian territory, but the Palestinians bulldozed out of their homes, can't live where they've been for centuries. That is racist, just like South African apartheid.

In fact, Demond Tutu, a black bishop who lead against white supremacy in S. Africa, has openly expressed solidarity with the Palestinians and called Israel apartheid.

I leave you with a telling quote from Ben-Gurion, Israel's first mass-murderer and first PM:

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs, We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?" David Ben-Gurion, quoted in "The Jewish Paradox" by Nathan Goldman, former president of the World Jewish Congress.

 

[Matrices]

The Non-Presence:

You would have been better off not responding, because your response is even more pathetic the second time around.

Your argument is basically this: don't bother me with facts, citations, scholars, Jewish, Israeli, or otherwise, because I am a Zionist and therefore I know everything - brilliant.

A slaveowner in America 150 years ago could easily say, "well, I don't need statistics and reports on how slavery is illogical and immoral and bad for blacks, because, well, I own slaves, so I know the truth."

Stupidity has rarely had more powerful champions than yourself. You are an indoctrinated Zionist, a victim of your own brainwashing and self-denial. I give you quotes from Israel's own leaders where they announce they are terrorists and ethnic cleansers, and you tell me - what else - not to watch CNN or use Google!

Do you have even an iota of intelligence?

Here is another one from Moshe Dayan:

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-Source: Israeli paper Ha'aretz, April 4, 1969.


Make no mistake: you do not fool me. That you confirm yourself as having served in Israel's gangster forces, who have raped and plundered Palestine as white settlers always used to in the colonial era, you mark your place in history as on the side of the oppressor.

I know the history of Zionism - I know because your own historians have found out in the last two decades. I know because senior IDF lecturer and historian Aryeh Yitzakhi has said that Israelis "have to face the ocean of lies that they grew up in", namely that Israel has committed grave crimes against humanity vis. the Arabs. I know because about 600 IDF officers in the past two years have refused to participate in your racist country's war, they have signed the Refusenik Petition which says they will no longer "starve, expel, and humiliate another people".

So in a word, your charade is up.

 

[0roo0roo]

or perhaps a population that is free and not indoctrinated with nazi like hatred is ALLOWED to refuse to participate in war in protest just as you are allowed to in the US without getting a bullet in oyour skull. a small group of people that don't want to fight is proof of nothing besides a free society.

the very real attrocities by the palestinians mount by the day, and all you can do is insinuate that the israelis did bad things in the past. a past where palestinians were quite literally on the side of hitler.

you make horrible comparisons to slavery where the victims were true innocents, not perpetrators of several wars they lost, not people who spit in the eye of peace at every chance they had to make a better life for their children. it shows your ignorance and willingness to blindly abide by anything the palestinians do.

you might ask yourself why many villages were vacated? perhaps it was the arabs asking them to evacuate so they could better irradicate the israelis in genocidal war . oops?

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

That is right. The Presence is all knowing because he served with the IDF, shooting children throwing rocks at his depleted uranium shielded, American donated tank. Don't bother arguing with him, you couldn't possibly have any clue by watching the Israel hating, pro-Arab American news channels.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
or perhaps a population that is free and not indoctrinated with nazi like hatred is ALLOWED to refuse to participate in war in protest just as you are allowed to in the US without getting a bullet in oyour skull. a small group of people that don't want to fight is proof of nothing besides a free society.

the very real attrocities by the palestinians mount by the day, and all you can do is insinuate that the israelis did bad things in the past. a past where palestinians were quite literally on the side of hitler.
OrooOroo doesn't consider Palestinians who cannot eat because they are cordoned off from their farms an atrocity. He does not consider families split up as towns become gulags an atrocity. He does not consider people not being able to work or having ther homes and farms destroyed because they "provide cover for terrorists" an atrocity. No, for him EVERY Palestinian is a bloody terrorist so collective punishment is justified.

you make horrible comparisons to slavery where the victims were true innocents, not perpetrators of several wars they lost, not people who spit in the eye of peace at every chance they had to make a better life for their children. it shows your ignorance and willingness to blindly abide by anything the palestinians do.
Once again, broad generalizations. Every Palestinian is a terrorist. How many people in Palestine do you think participated in the wars and are still alive? Are their kids and their kids' kids supposed to keep suffering for their actions? For him the average Palestinian is not a true innocent who suffers at the hands of Israel.
The slavery comparison is PERFECTLY justified. Ever hear about Nat Turner's rebellion? He was a slave who was sick of being treated like a subhuman and who rose up to fight against his oppressors. Many other slaves joined him and fought to the death. Sound earily similar to the intifada don't you think? It should b/c in both cases a few have taken up arms for the cause of many. But you are too blind to understand that so keep beleiving that every Palestinian is a terrorist.

you might ask yourself why many villages were vacated? perhaps it was the arabs asking them to evacuate so they could better irradicate the israelis in genocidal war . oops?

And of course you know this because the Arabs told you personally and all the well documented accounts of Jews forcibly expelling and sometimes even massacring Arabs are false.

 

[Matrices]

Broorboo spews more nonsense:

"you might ask yourself why many villages were vacated? perhaps it was the arabs asking them to evacuate so they could better irradicate the israelis in genocidal war . oops? "

In typically moronic pro-Israeli fashion, he peddles racist myths when faced with concrete scholarly sources. Deaf and blind to reality, he cannot see that when Israel's own historians using its own declassified archives admit that it was the Zionists who terrorized and expelled the Arabs, the pathetic pro-Israel narrative has been obliterated.

No, the Arabs did not simply flee as part of some big genocidal plan - that is ludicrous. Scholar Erskine Childers, reviewing BBC communications from the war, actually found Arab leaders telling Palestinians to stay put. Moreover the fact that Zionists massacred, raped, and plundered, has been established by at least three major Israeli historians: Benny Morris, Tom Segev, and Aryeh Yitzakhi. Here in fact is a whole section from Segev's book, outlining the mass looting the Zionists embarked upon when stealing Palestinian land:

"During the war and afterwards plundering and looting were very common. "The only thing that surprised me," said David Ben-Gurion at a Cabinet meeting, "and surprised me bitterly, was the discovery of such moral failings among us, which I had never suspected. I mean the mass robbery in which all parts of the population participated." Soldiers who entered abandoned houses in the towns and villages they occupied grabbed whatever they could. Some took the stuff for themselves, others "for the boys" or for the kibbutz. They stole household effects, cash, heavy equipment, trucks and whole flocks of cattle. Behor Shitrit told his colleagues of the Ministerial Committee for Abandoned Property that he had visited some of the occupied areas and saw the looting with his own eyes. "From Lydda alone," he said, "the army took out 1,800 truck-loads of property." Minister of Finance Kaplan admitted: " As a matter of fact, neither the Ministry of Finance nor the Custodian of Abandoned Property is in control of the situation, and the army does what it wants." The Custodian, Dov Shafrir, told the ministers that the regional commanders and their adjutants wanted to stop the looting, "but not the storekeepers of the various companies and squads."

Broobroo likes to play the anti-Semitism card, which is getting old, frankly. The "Oh we murdered and kicked out the Arabs because they were Nazis" routine grates on the ears of serious people, who know that in realitiy it was the Jewish settlers who were raping and murdering in this case.

Obviously, the theft, massacres, and expopriation was designed to terrorize and cause flight among the Arabs because Zionism is racist, and demands a homogenous Jewish state, and therefore had to kick out the pre-existing Christian and Muslim Arab population.

Any talk of Arabs wanting to "destroy" Israel is Orwellian in the extreme since Israel's existence was predicated on destroying a group of Arabs, and the country has been illegally expanding and stealing Arab land from the beginning, not vice versa. Moreover, Israel was founded by white European settlers, the fact that they are Jews doesn't change anything. So they are foreign settlers, not native people. In fact the tiny number of native Jews who were in Palestine were never Zionist--Zionism is a product of racist European thinking that pervaded the continent in the 19th and early 20th century.

 

[0roo0roo]

its amazing how your side never fails to get emotional and start calling names as part of your twisted strategy. i'm sure it bolsters your weak arguements which only display the same level of faulty reasoning. just another indication of the intellectual dishonesty and lack of integrity that pervades your side.

you'll notice i never used a personal attack unless it was mocking one of yours, copying yourr very words with just a few switched to reflect your attack and tactics several times. it went over your heads of course.

you have linblahice ever defending the palestinian leaders, inplicitly justifying their actions. pretending that giving in while not dealing with the terrorism is the way to go. i'm sure not every german was a nazi, yet its impossible to reward them without rewarding and further encouraging hitler as you would. yet you would call this somehow anti german such is short termed thinking.

and as for your assertion that the arabs wanting to destroy israel as orwellian, history is not on your side.

Soon we'll be able to take the initiative and rid ourselves of Israel once and for all,'' the Egyptain field marshal Abdel Hakim Amer said in a phone call to the head of the P.L.O. on June 4, 1967

Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."May 18 1967

Syria's defence minister (now president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."May 20 1967

Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight. May 27 1967

Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."
My 31 1967

Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."May 31 1967

i'm not going to include quotes by the mufti or religious leaders as there are too many calls for genocide and its a given

the numbers are not on your side. by how many million do the arabs outnumber the jews? by incredible numbers. 6~million jews against innumerable arabs. iraq has 25million alone. did these arab countries expell their jewish citizens? yes. have they been compensated? no, have their been un resolutions helping their cause? no. did the arab states commit war crimes in every war? yes. did they shell civilians right from the start of every conflict? yes. did their leaders use propaganda about pushing israel into the sea and eradicating the jews? without a doubt.

Even before the fighting stopped, Cairo radio was broadcasting: ?The United States, oh Arabs, is the enemy of all peoples, the killer of life, the shedder of blood, that is preventing you from liquidating Israel.?

were the palestinians nomadic? yes, where their jews in the area of palestine from the beggining yes. is immigration somehow illegal? no, else the US wouldn't exist. did palestinians only begin flooding into palestine after the jews began immigrating? yes, and at a ratio of 10 to 1. perhaps they should go home too? and somehow you'd have to figure out where everyone originally came from which is absurd. was the population of palestine very low when the jews first started arriving? yes. are you talking about white european jews as somehow justification for why they shouldn't be there? yes. is that racist? yes.
did many palestinians sell their land to the jews? yes.

theft massacures? i guess you didn't notice the palestinians participating in massacures and theft from the beggining huh? from as early as the 1929 riots they tortured and killed children in hebron. countless incidents. and they didn't accept the original UN partition, they accepted war, not once, but twice as their strategy.

Zionism is a product of racist European thinking that pervaded the continent in the 19th and early 20th century?

maybe you should be blaming the racist arabs and racist europeans that caused this then. esp the arab states that continue to allow racist propaganda on a level not seen since nazi germany. incitement and glorification of violence that with a horrific double standard is ignored. how do you expect peace with such wide spread and deep rooted religious intolerance/racism of a far smaller jewish minority. its absurd.

as for a foundation on racism, the official palestinian charter calls for the liquidation, not simple war, but liquidation of jews. they know very well what they meant considering their close ties to hitler.

Hitler and the Nazis were more than happy to invite the grand mufti of Jerusalem and the leader of the Palestinian Arab national movement, Haj Amin al-Husseini, to wartime Berlin as an honored guest and ally, even as they were embarking on the mass murder of European Jewry. That al-Husseini belonged to the Arabic-speaking branch of the "Semitic" linguistic family did not deter Heinrich Himmler, the ruthless head of the SS, from wishing the grand mufti every success in his fight "against the foreign Jew."6 Nor, for his part, did any sense of allegiance to "Semitism" prevent al-Husseini from enthusiastically declaring on November 2, 1943, that "the Germans know how to get rid of the Jews." Indeed, the Palestinian Arab national leader stressed the ideological link between Germans and Muslims:
[T]he Germans have never harmed any Muslim, and they are again fighting our common enemy.... But most of all they have definitely solved the Jewish problem. These ties, and especially the last [the "Final Solution"], made our friendship with Germany not a provisional one, dependent on conditions, but a permanent and lasting friendship based on mutual interest.7http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/31395_comment.php[/q


even in 1961, the Saudi Arabian press defined Adolf Eichmann as a "martyr who bestowed a true blessing on humanity." and in palestinian populations.. holocaust denial... thats a given.


just a little taste

Columnist for Egyptian Government Daily to Hitler:'If Only You Had Done It, Brother'

The following are excerpts from an article by Fatma Abdallah Mahmoud titled "Accursed Forever and Ever," which recently appeared in the Egyptian government daily Al-Akhbar:

"They are accursed in heaven and on earth. They are accursed from the day the human race was created and from the day their mothers bore them. They are accursed also because they murdered the Prophets. They murdered the Prophet John the Baptist and served up his head on a golden platter to the singer and dancer Salome. Allah also cursed them with a thousand curses when they argued with and resisted his words of truth, deceived the Prophet Moses, and worshiped the golden calf that they created with their own hands!!"

"These accursed ones are a catastrophe for the human race. They are the virus of the generation, doomed to a life of humiliation and wretchedness until Judgement Day. They are also accursed because they repeatedly tried to murder the Prophet Muhammad. They threw a stone at him, but missed. Another time, they tried to mix poison in his food, but providence saved him from their treachery and their crimes. Allah cursed them when they carried out the criminal massacre of the peaceful Palestinians in Sabra and Shatilla."

"They are accursed, they, their fathers, and their forefathers? until Judgment Day, because they burst into Al-Aqsa Mosque with their defiled, filthy feet and violated its sanctity."

"Finally, they are accursed, fundamentally, because they are the plague of the generation and the bacterium of all time. Their history always was and always will be stained with treachery, falseness, and lying. Historical documents prove it."

"Thus, the Jews are accursed - the Jews of our time, those who preceded them and those who will come after them, if any Jews come after them."

"With regard to the fraud of the Holocaust? Many French studies have proven that this is no more than a fabrication, a lie, and a fraud!! That is, it is a 'scenario' the plot of which was carefully tailored, using several faked photos completely unconnected to the truth. Yes, it is a film, no more and no less. Hitler himself, whom they accuse of Nazism, is in my eyes no more than a modest 'pupil' in the world of murder and bloodshed. He is completely innocent of the charge of frying them in the hell of his false Holocaust!!"

"The entire matter, as many French and British scientists and researchers have proven, is nothing more than a huge Israeli plot aimed at extorting the German government in particular and the European countries in general. But I, personally and in light of this imaginary tale, complain to Hitler, even saying to him from the bottom of my heart, 'If only you had done it, brother, if only it had really happened, so that the world could sigh in relief [without] their evil and sin.'"

"Since their birth, the Jews [have amassed] hatred and hostility towards Islam and the Muslims. They have always laid traps for the Muslims, woven conspiracies and crimes against them, and been biased in favor of their enemies and occupiers?"

"They always try to warp and distort everything fair and beautiful!! Basically, they are a model of moral ugliness, debasement, and degradation. If only Allah would curse them more and more, to the end of all generations. Amen." [1]

 

[0roo0roo]

ah, palestinian tv...propaganda on a level not seen since nazi germany

Throughout history, religious wars have been fought in the name of different gods. The premise of the Oslo Accords was that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was not an irreconcilable religious war, but one over borders. However, the Palestinian religious leaders, all appointees of the PA political leadership, are publicly preaching that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is part of Islam's eternal religious war against the Jews. Jews are portrayed as the eternal enemies of Allah, and the killing of Jews as Allah's will. On the national level, Allah prohibits acceptance of Israel's existence and will destroy it.

This ideology is preached in sermons and religious lessons that are broadcast every Friday on official Palestinian TV and radio, and from the religious lessons appearing in PA newspapers and children's textbooks.

The Palestinians have redefined the conflict from one over borders, in which compromise may be a solution, into a religious war in which compromise is heretical. The implications for future peace are ominous.

This report is not brought as a critique of Islam's religious traditions, nor does it claim to represent authentic Islam. Rather it demonstrates the way Palestinian Authority religious leaders are selecting, interpreting and teaching Islam. Although Islam has positive references and traditions regarding Jews, the PA religious leaders have chosen to cite only negative references in their religious teaching, using the traditional sources to justify and even to demand uncompromising hatred of Jews and Israel.

The religious ideology of the Palestinian Authority religious leaders can be summarized by eight essential principles:

Regarding the Jews:

Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Islam is fighting a continuous religious war against the Jews.

The killing of Jews is a religious obligation.

Palestinians are the vanguard in this war against the Jews, and all Islamic nations are obligated to assist in this war.

Regarding Israel:

- All of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea (which includes all of Israel) is a religious Waqf -- an Islamic religious trust. Any Moslem who relinquishes any part to Israel is damned to Hell.

- All agreements with Israel are inherently temporary in nature, and are signed only because of Israel's temporary balance of power advantage.

- Allah will replace Moslems who shirk their obligation to battle Israel.

- The ultimate destruction of Israel is a certainty.

The Palestinians repeatedly use Islamic sources to defend this religious hatred, even demanding the killing of Jews as a current obligation and the will of Allah. At least four times in recent months, Palestinian religious leaders have taught publicly that the following Hadith (Islamic traditions attributed to Mohammed) is an authoritative directive of Islam today, expressing Allah's will that obedient Moslems kill Jews. According to Sheikh Muhammed Abd al Hadi La'afi, quoted in the official P.A. newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (May 18, 2001), and Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi, delivering the main Friday sermon on Palestinian TV (April 13, 2001), the Hadith itself states:

"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'"

On Palestinian TV (March 30, 2001) the preacher Dr. Muhammed Ibrahim Madi attacked Arab-Moslem world leaders because they are avoiding attacking Israel with missiles and tanks, and threatened them that Allah is liable to "replace them with other men... that fight for Allah... to liberate the lands from the defilement of the Jews."

These broadcasts by officially appointed religious leaders, presenting the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as an eternal religious conflict, have been preached long before the current violence began. This preaching it is not a reaction to the present violence, and possibly the opposite is true. The PA's religious worldview, that sees agreements with Israel as inherently temporary and war against the Jews as an expression of Allah's will, has in all likelihood fueled the hatred that has lead to Palestinian terror and violence.

This report presents representative selections from sermons broadcast during recent years:

* * *

Eternal Islamic War against the Jews is led by Palestinians; the Jews are enemies of Allah.

"Blessed is he who fights jihad in the name of Allah, blessed is he who [goes on] raids in the name of Allah, blessed is he who dons a vest of explosives on himself or on his children and goes in to the depth of the Jews and says: 'Allahu Akbar, blessed be Allah.' Like the collapse of the building upon the heads of the Jews in their sinful dance-hall, I ask of Allah that we see the Knesset collapsing on the heads of the Jews." (Palestinian TV, June 8, 2001)

"The battle with the Jews will surely come... the decisive Moslem victory is coming without a doubt, and the prophet spoke about in more than one Hadith. And the day of resurrection will not come without the victory of the believers [the Moslems] over the descendents of the monkeys and pigs [the Jews] and with their annihilation." (official P.A. newspaper, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, May 18, 2001)

"We the Palestinian nation, our fate from Allah is to be the vanguard in the war against the Jews until the resurrection of the dead, as the prophet Mohammed said: 'The resurrection of the dead will not arrive until you will fight the Jews and kill them...' We the Palestinians are the vanguard in this undertaking and in this campaign, whether or not we want this..." (Palestinian TV, July 28, 2000)

"The Jews are the Jews. There never was among them a supporter of peace. They are all liars... the true criminals, the Jewish terrorists, that slaughtered our children, that turned our wives into widows and our children into orphans, and desecrated our holy places. They are terrorists. Therefore it is necessary to slaughter them and murder them, according to the words of Allah... it is forbidden to have mercy in your hearts for the Jews in any place and in any land. Make war on them anyplace that you find yourself. Any place that you encounter them -- kill them. Kill the Jews and those among the Americans that are like them... Have no mercy on the Jews, murder them everywhere..." (Palestinian TV, October 13, 2000)

"My dear brothers, so continues the struggle between the Moslems and the Jews from the past, both near and far, in the present and in the future. And in this matter the word of Allah will be fulfilled: 'There will not be found [anyone] more hostile to the believers than the Jews and the idolaters." (Palestinian TV, April 13, 2001, quoting the Koran - Sura 5,84)

A repeated goal of PA religious teaching is to defame Jews and Jewish tradition:

"...The Jews are used to deceit... They fake the facts and changed the laws of Allah... The Torah was brought down with contained guidance toward the path of righteousness and light, just as every book which Allah brought down... [The Jews] switched the law of Allah and by this rebelled on His ruling and religion and way, and therefore they merit to be heretics and to be banished from the Allah's mercy... They faked the words of Allah and changed their religion and laws and they are the wicked. And whomever does not rule according to what Allah brought down, whomever rebelled against this... is in a rebellion against Allah, and is a descendant of Abelis [ghost], the descendant of the Satans, and worthy of receiving the punishment of the sinners..." (Palestinian TV, February 16, 1999)

"...Their Bible [of the Jews] today has no light and no teachings. Their Bible today is just a bunch of notes that were written down by people who lie about God, his prophets and his Bible... Those who do these kinds of things are the descendants of Abelis, meaning the descendants of the satans... They fabricated a Jewish history book full of promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that He will give them the land of Palestine..." (Palestinian TV, November 3, 1998)

* * *

All of the land from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea is Holy Islamic Wakf (Moslem religious trust).

Shiekh Yuosouf Abu Sneina, official preacher of the Al Aqsa Mosque, referred to the Israeli cities of Haifa, Lod, Jerusalem, and Nazareth, on Palestinian Radio (April 30, 1999):

"The Islamic Land of Palestine is one and cannot be divided. There is no difference between Haifa and Nablus, between Lod and Ramallah, between Jerusalem and Nazareth. Dividing Palestine into cantons and giving recognition to the occupation is prohibited by Sharia (Islamic religious law), since Palestinian is Wakf (Islamic Trust) for all Moslems in the East and in the West. No one has the right to give it up or to forsake it. The liberation of Palestine is a mandatory obligation for all Moslems and not only for our Palestinian nation."

Demonstrating the consistent ideology, a nearly identical speech was broadcast one year later (Palestinian TV, September 8, 2000)

"Allah made it clear to us through the laws of the Sharia (Islamic religious law), and we say: The Islamic Land of Palestine is one and cannot be divided. There is no difference between Haifa and Nablus, Lod and Ramallah, Jerusalem and Nazareth or Gaza and Ashkelon. Palestine is Wakf land that belongs to Moslems throughout the world and no one has the right to give it up or to forsake it. Whoever does this is a traitor to the trust and is nothing but a loathsome criminal whose end shall be in hell."

Sheikh Ikrima Sabri, the Palestinian Authority appointed Mufti of Jerusalem and Palestine, referred to the Israeli cities of Jaffa and Acre on Palestinian TV (January 11, 2001):

"We are discussing the current problems and when we speak about Jerusalem it doesn't mean that we have forgotten about Hebron or about Jaffa or about Acre... We are speaking about the current problems that have priority at a certain time. It doesn't mean that we have given up... We have announced a number of times that from a religious point of view Palestine from the sea to the river is Islamic."

As broadcast on Palestinian TV (October 13, 2000), again referring to Israeli cities and regions:

"Even if agreements were signed [regarding] Gaza and the West Bank, we will not forget Haifa, Acre, Jaffa, the Galilee Triangle, and the Negev. It is only a question of time..."

"It is forbidden for anyone, Arab, Palestinian or Moslem to forgo one grain of soil of the land of Palestine, Jerusalem and Al Aksa... Whoever forgoes even one grain of soil his sin is upon him, and all the sins of the Palestinians, the Arabs and the Moslems, forever and ever..." (Palestinian TV, September 8, 2000)

"...The Jews gathered from all ends of the earth in our beloved Palestine, from Rosh HaNikra in the north to Eilat in the south... from sea to river, it was all a land of Moslems... Palestine's borders, the promised Palestine, is from the sea to the river..." (Palestinian TV, August 18, 2000)

* * *

The Oslo Agreements are only temporary; future generations will complete the war.

In an interview on Palestinian TV (September 1, 2000) an Israeli Arab Knesset Member, Abd-Al Malek Dahamshe, defined the agreements with Israel as "Hudna" -- a temporary cease fire. In response to a viewer who called in to the studio and commented that, "Our problem with Israel is not a border problem, but an existential one," Knesset Member Dahamshe responded: "We exaggerate when we say 'peace'... What we are speaking about is 'Hudna.'" This idea of accepting "Hudna," temporary agreements until some future liquidation of Israel, has also been expressed by Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, leader of the Hamas terrorist organization, as quoted in the official Palestinian Authority newspaper, Al Hayat-Al Jadida (July 24, 2000):

"We are speaking of 'Hudna', [a cease fire] for a while, but not of the end of the conflict. In exchange for this should include a complete withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza..."

The newest Palestinian school textbooks, published in September 2000, teach this prohibition of leaving Islamic land in Israel's hands. In sixth grade "Islamic Education," the following is taught:

"Patriotism in Islam: In Islam, it is not improper for a Moslem to love his homeland. To the contrary, Islam encourages this, and established its defense as an obligatory commandment for every Moslem if even a centimeter of his land is stolen. I, a Palestinian Moslem, love my country Palestine..." (Part A, p. 68)

The same theme is echoed by preachers at the mosques, as broadcast on Palestinian TV (July 28, 2000):

"All of the agreements entered into [with Israel] are temporary, until the decree comes from Allah and until the destiny from Allah is realized."

And as proclaimed by Dr. Mohammed Ibrahim Maadi, in the Friday sermon on Palestinian TV, (June 8, 2001):

"Who is responsible for the loss of Palestine... and [for] deceitfully labeling it Israel?... The Prophet [Mohammed] soothes us with many Hadiths that Palestine shall return to its former days... We must prepare a foothold, for the coming army of Allah, by divine predetermination. May it be Allah's will [that] this oppressing state shall pass, Israel shall pass. This oppressing state, America, shall pass. The oppressing state Britain, shall pass, [those] that brought this catastrophe [nakba] of this nation..."

And then in the Friday sermon on Palestinian TV (May 4, 2001):

"...In our holy books [it is written] that when a state for the Jews is established in Palestine, it will not last more than 67 years. In other words -- the year 2022. And I beg Allah to bring an end to the country of the oppressor in America, and the country of the oppressor Israel in Palestine, by that date... Therefore, it is our hope that this oppressive country [Israel] will be terminated, as in the words of Allah..."

* * *

The destruction of Israel is a global Islamic responsibility.

"Arab and Moslem rulers! The weaponry that will not be used against the enemies of Allah will rust and you will use them against one another, as happens periodically. Aim your arrows once and make war, as they war against you. Why this fear of the State [of Israel] that is surrounded by Arabs and Moslems? Why this fear? Because you do not fear Allah -- whoever fears Allah, all else will fear him." (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

"There are Hadiths (Islamic traditions attributed to Mohammed) regarding our struggle against the Jews. And it is given: 'The day of resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!' This Hadith clarifies to us the characteristics of the campaign between us and the Jews. The tree and the rock do not say 'Oh, Palestinian,' 'Oh Arab,' or 'Oh resident of the Middle East.' Rather they say: 'Oh, Moslem, Servant of Allah.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

"The Arab rulers and the Moslems, and our people everywhere. If we don't support Allah, He will replace us with other men... The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

"Oh, our Arab brethren... Oh, our Moslem brethren... Don't leave the Palestinians alone in war against the Jews... Even if it has been decreed upon us to be the vanguard... Jerusalem, Palestine and Al Aksa, the land that Allah blessed and its surrounding areas will remain at the center of the struggle between truth and falsehood, between the Jews and the non-Jews on this sacred land, regardless of how many agreements are signed, regardless of how many treaties and covenants are ratified. For the truth is in the Koran, as verified by the words of the prophet Mohammed, that the decisive battle will be in Jerusalem and its environs: 'The resurrection of the dead will not occur until you make war on the Jews...'" (Palestinian TV, August 11, 2000)

"All the members of this nation must take part in this struggle against the enemies of Allah, so that through us the saying of Allah will be fulfilled: 'You will not find people more hostile than are the Jews.'" (Palestinian TV, April 13, 2001)

"Palestine... causes the Jews to lose sleep, causes the enemies of Allah throughout the land to lose sleep... It is a bleeding wound, and it will continue to bleed forever and ever... Jerusalem is a symbol... to the Moslems and to their war of Jihad forever and ever." (Palestinian TV, August 11, 2000)

"The victory is coming, the victory is coming, the victory is coming! Allah, show us your marvels against the Jews! Show them a black day, like the day of A'ad and Tha'mud (tribes that were defeated and destroyed). Because they boasted to us of their strength! Show us the prince against them, show them a black day! Allah, transform them into the Moslems' spoils of war! Allah, transform them into our spoils of war!" (Palestinian TV, April 13, 2001)

----------- Material provided by Palestinian Media Watch, an independent, Jerusalem-based non-profit organization which monitors the Palestinian media. To receive free reports,

 

[0roo0roo]

wonderful picture of a palestinian baby dressed up as a suicide bomber

A Palestinian Mother who sent her son to commit a suicide attack explains her motives

Mahmud Alabad was born in the Shati refugee camp on April 30, 1979. "When I gave birth to Mahmud, I was so happy when I saw him, and when I said goodbye to him when he was on his way to the next world, I was happy… may Allah be praised for the fate that granted this suicide attacker his life and his death."

"I Agreed that he become a suicide bomber to encourage other mothers"

"I prayed that my son be killed in action, so he could rewarded with the [72] virgins in Heaven"

"The truth is that, in the beginning, I was surprised that my son would leave me and that I would see him no more. I steeled myself, however, and realized that my son's martyrdom was an act of Allah, and it became for me as a source of pride. [My son] asked me to come with him to film his farewell video. At first I refused to be filmed with him for fear of how it would appear, but his commanders told me that it would be considered a powerful encouragement for [other] women and youth and would strengthen the heart of our nation. On that basis, I agreed to be filmed to show our loyalty to Allah. Through the film, I wanted to convey the message that we are a people, that our land is occupied, that we have no choice but revolution against the conqueror, no choice but to kill the conqueror, to banish him from our land in any way by possible by pressing the Jihad [the holy war against the infidels], the suicide, and the struggle-and by the fortitude of the mothers."

"From the first time that I said goodbye, I asked him not to be afraid [in fighting] against the Jews, as they are cowards, that he prepare his weapons well before embarking,… that he kill [as many] as he can and leave none alive…. And when he left for his operation, his face was radiant as if he were meeting the girls of heaven right then and there. I wished him luck and that he enter heaven and marry the girls as soon as possible."

"I was happy when they told me that my son had died"

"The Fact that my son killed Jews makes me happy"

"We Muslims have the strongest maternal instinct."

 

[0roo0roo]

In typically moronic pro-Israeli fashion, he peddles racist myths when faced with concrete scholarly sources. Deaf and blind to reality, he cannot see that when Israel's own historians using its own declassified archives admit that it was the Zionists who terrorized and expelled the Arabs, the pathetic pro-Israel narrative has been obliterated.

arab countries own newspapers are against you.

ON APRIL 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine
Arab Higher Committee (AHC), told the UN Security Council: "The Arabs
did not want to submit to a truce ... They preferred to abandon their
homes,,belongings and everything they possessed."

ON SEPTEMBER 6, 1948, the Beirut Daily Telegraph quoted Emil Ghory,
secretary of the AHC, as saying: "The fact that there are those
refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states
in
opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon
this policy unanimously..."

ON JUNE 8, 1951, Habib Issa, secretary-general of the Arab
League, wrote in the New York Lebanese daily al-Hoda that in 1948,
Azzam Pasha, then League secretary, had "assured the Arab peoples
that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple
as
a military promenade ... Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of
Palestine to leave their land, homes and property, and to stay
temporarily in neighbouring fraternal states."

IN THE MARCH 1976 issue of Falastin a-Thaura, then the official
journal ofthe Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO
spokesman, wrote: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the
Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned
them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw
them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to
live."

ON APRIL 9, 1953, the Jordanian daily al-Urdun quoted a refugee,
Yunes Ahmed Assad, formerly of Deir Yassin, as saying: "For the
flight
and fall of the other villages, it is our leaders who are
responsible,
because of the dissemination of rumours exaggerating Jewish crimes
and
describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... they
instilled fear and terror into the hearts of the Arabs of Palestine
until they fled, leaving their homes and property to the enemy."

ANOTHER refugee told the Jordanian daily a-Difaa on September 6,
1954: "The Arab governments told us, 'Get out so that we can get in.'
So we got out, but they did not get in."

THE JORDANIAN daily Falastin wrote on February 19, 1949: "The Arab
states... encouraged the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes
temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion
armies."

ON OCTOBER 2, 1948, the London Economist reported, in an eyewitness
account of the flight of Haifa's Arabs: "There is little doubt that
the most potent of the factors [in the flight] were the announcements
made over the air by the Arab Higher Executive urging all Arabs in
Haifa to quit ... And it was clearly intimated that those Arabs who
remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as
renegades."

THE PRIME Minister of Syria in 1948, Khaled al-Azem, in his memoirs,
published in 1973, listed what he thought were the reasons for the
Arab failure in 1948: "... the fifth factor was the call by the Arab
governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and leave
for the bordering Arab countries ... We brought destruction upon a
million Arab refugees bycalling on them and pleading with them to
leave their land."

"FOLLOWING a visit to refugees in Gaza, a British diplomat
reported the following: 'But while they express no bitterness against
the Jews...they speak with the utmost bitterness of theEgyptians and
other Arab states: 'We know who our enemies are,' they
will say, and they are referring to their Arab brothers who, they
declare, persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes."
-
British Foreign Office Document #371/75342/XC/A/4991

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

So were all of your unending quotes supposed to prove that ALL Palestinians are anti-Semites and want the destruction of Israel? Because unless they do, and I didn't bother reading them, you still have no case for Israel's policies of brutal collective punishment. You know its amazing, you're Asian if I'm not mistaken, yet you are the biggest pro-Israel, Arab loathing Zionist in these forums. Weird.

 

[0roo0roo]

quoting hitler would prove all germans were anti semites bent on genocide?

collective punishment? thats the whole palestinian strategy...i'll call iraels policies brutal when they start suicide bombing civilians with bombs filled with shrapenal coated with rat poison to prevent blood clotting.

so i guess your the biggest pro terrorist sympathiser jew loathing racist who weakens the case of any moderate palestinians by tacitly supporting strengthening and favouring rewarding fundamentalist terrorist palestinian tactics in these forums then huh? the people will support what works and is not punished, further corrupting palestinian culture, and its people like you who affirm terrorist tactics and strengthen their use and support.

how dare i disagree with you huh?

 

[Matrices]

The problem with quoting this or that Arab newspaper is that you are quoting _rhetoric_. In Israel's case, it is concrete things that have actually been done. I am sure that after being oppressed systematically, black nationalists here fifty years ago wrote and said some nasty things about whites - who cares? The question is the leverage of power - it was the whites who were actually committing the injustices and wielded the power to do so. Moreover, you are simply trying to deflect the fact that top Israeli leaders since 1948 up till now have said racist, Nazi-like things about Palestinians, and implemented them. I bet very few people know that Israeli leaders describe Palestinians as "cockroaches, cancer, and crocodiles" as I illustrated earlier. I bet very few people know one of your favorite rabbis out in the KKK-Settlements said, "ten thousand dead arabs aren't worth a jewish fingernail." And the thing is that such rhetoric is backed up by events on the ground - these settler thugs, arriving from anywhere in the world, steal and burn and destroy Palestinian land with the help of the army. Looking at any map of the settlements, anyone can see they gut up and intersect Palestinian territories - it is ethnic cleansing in slow motion.

BrooBroo's second folly is to deny Israel has committed grave crimes against humanity, even though IDF historians, international human rights groups, former Israeli leaders, and other Israeli historians, have evidence and can be quoted precisely to that effect in myriad cases. NYT reporter Chris Hedges for instances reports that Israeli soldiers are the only he has seen who "kill children for sport." The current IDF chief used Nazi terminology to describe the Palestinians - as "a cancer" - and then recently admitted Israel's measures wee too harsh.

Denial does not amount to an argument. Israel is a terrorist nation. You do not need suicide bombs or dark skin to be a terrorist - that is just the racist pigeon-holing of a definition. Who cares what method - suicide bomb or tank/plane bomb - you use to kill? The only difference is that since the US throws away billions in free weapons for Israel, Israel has powerful military equipment. The Palestinians don't even have an army, and they are desparate.

No nation can lounge around in cafes and discos in peace when they have incarcerated and occupied another nation of millions in refugee camps and jails after having stolen their land. That is immoral and it inevitably results in blowback.