Or we could just simplify our tax code and make it the place to move to dodge taxes.
Countries really need to start acknowledging that citizens have other options and start lowering the cost of citizenship to attract the wealthy.
Countries really need to start acknowledging that citizens have other options and start lowering the cost of citizenship to attract the wealthy.
I wonder if he's planning on taking on Singaporean citizenship, since he lives there, has a pretty expensive condo, and his gf is from there. Singapore doesn't allow dual citizenship (or triple, since I'd assume he still has Brazilian) so maybe this was a pre-emptive move?\
While ordinary citizens are usually very concerned with keeping their citizenship and visas, the super-rich have it easier. For example, you can fairly easily get a conditional permanent residency in the US if you are willing to invest $1million.
While ordinary citizens are usually very concerned with keeping their citizenship and visas, the super-rich have it easier. For example, you can fairly easily get a conditional permanent residency in the US if you are willing to invest $1million.
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And when you have no one else to bleed dry because they moved elsewhere (this news item illustrates just how mobile the mega wealthy are in this nation) what then? Cannibalize everyone else below him or around him? This type of thinking won't actually address any of the reasons why this guy has moved out the US and dropped his citizenship. What is worse is that we hear this same sentiment at the state level as if the rich (along with any businesses they own/run) can't or won't move to a different state who courts them to move over.
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BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The only tools "liberals" know are higher taxes and more regulation. They're the answer to every problem.
lol @ you guys saying to take all his money cause he made it off the US tax payer. Really? Pretty sure he made it off the fucking internet.
Not really. He's obviously free to renounce his citizenship, but he should not expect to pay less taxes for it.
Just think about this one for about two more seconds. Do you think you shouldn't pay property tax because you live somewhere else most of the time? When you conduct economic activity somewhere, you should expect to be taxed.
I would settle for them being taxed just as much.
Do you think facebook would exist without government and specifically the American government? Do you think facebook would have started without the American college system, which is what Facebook served at the beginning? Do you think they would have the money they did if it wasn't for the legal system in the US? Facebook is completely dependent on American infrastructure. The day that infrastructure goes away is the day people start violating Facebook's intellectual property and simply hijacking their domain.
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,769
- 52
- 91
Buh buh but the roads he drove on to go to work were paid for by taxpayers so he should give billions of dollars to the US government in return.
Abraxas
Golden Member
- Oct 26, 2004
- 1,056
- 0
- 0
Assumes facts not in evidence. If leaving the US would cost them most of their fortune, they would not leave the US for the most part. If they need to come her to get rich to begin with, then it would allow the US to continue to use them as a source of revenue, which is only fitting if the infrastructure of the US is what allowed them wealth to begin with.
1prophet
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 5,313
- 534
- 126
A perfect example of what happens when corporate bought and paid for law enforcement views due process as an obstacle,
Used to hear the old saying from law enforcement types which goes something like this "can't make an omelet if you don't break a few eggs"
Let's see how many eggs Americans can handle being broken in the name of antipiracy, security, etc. before they finally rise up to do something about it.
Infohawk, the existence of humanity created the internet. It's evolution. Unless you don't believe in evolution. If the United States Federal Government didn't invest into creating the internet someone else would have when the need was there. So yay for them they did something! So did this guy and? Lets keep paying tribute to the fucker who invented the wheel, well he's dead so lets continue to pay tribute to his descendants...
And the big bang created led to the universe? So what? We're talking about close connections here.
If you have an example of a libertarian society that created anything near the wealth created by the US and other developed democracies, please let me know of it. Until then I am going off the assumption that having a developed legal system and infrastructure is a prerequisite for companies like Facebook.
Actually it is already part of the law that you can be barred for life from entering the US if it is determined that you specifically renounced citizenship just to avoid paying taxes. Of course it has never been enforced.
INA 212(A)(10)(E)
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html
That is interesting. They should make an example out of him. Don't bother coming back to go to fancy parties in NY and LA if your sole reason for renouncing citizenship was paying less taxes.
If you pay taxes in the country you live in then you don't have to pay it in the U.S. I know U.S citizens who work over seas they pay no U.S income tax.
If you make over a certain amount you do. It's not even that high anymore. If I recall a recent article, it was around $90,000. I'm fairly sure everyone is required to file a tax return as well.
The $90k is just the foreign earned income exclusion, even if you don't pay taxes in the country you reside in that part is a free ride. On top of that there's also the foreign tax credit, where if you pay income taxes in certain countries you get a credit for it on federal taxes. But you can't take both on the first $90k and I'm not sure how that applies to capital gains though.
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You are thinking of the Exclusion of foreign earned income rule, the Foreign Tax Credit, which says you get a credit on your tax for each dollar of tax you pay has no limit. One of the people I know makes well over 100,000 overseas and still pays no income tax, because their country has a higher income tax then the U.S.
Exactly. Lets be honest when you are as rich as he likely is a couple extra 10s of millions of dollars is not too big a deal. Being banned from sitting foot in the United States is.
No fancy parties, no attending facebook meetings, no visiting friends. Lets do it.
So basically you would just rob people of the motivation/desire to move to the US in order to generate large sums of wealth that by its creation creates a exponential net growth of jobs through out the US economy and reciprocal wealth for those who interact (either directly or indirectly) with such a business created by those you seek to drain dry.
He didn't just come here to get "rich". This individual helped to found a mega company which has hired tens of thousands of people increasing their wealth (the FB IPO created literally a 900 to 1000 new millionaires) in return within and without the company he helped to start up. This isn't even factoring in all those who will/have profited from facebook indirectly via advertisement, product development, investments etc.
So what exactly have you done to make you feel entitled to this guy's money again?
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Abraxas
Golden Member
- Oct 26, 2004
- 1,056
- 0
- 0
Argument fail. If they could generate large sums of wealth without leaving home they wouldn't come to begin with. In case you hadn't noticed, the point of this article was the individual came to the US, benefited from our educational systems and our infrastructure and created large sums of wealth, and then took all that wealth with them overseas to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
Unless you are arguing those same companies cannot be created by Americans living in America, what is your point? If the demand is there for the product, it would have been created without him in one form or another.
Payed taxes into a country whose infrastructure allowed him to get rich that he bailed on to avoid paying his fair share.
All I'm arguing for is high exit taxes, why do you think he should be able to use our infrastructure to gather substantial wealth and then remove it from the US tax free or low tax?
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You make it sound as if individuals in the US owe government for their very existence. This is nothing more but pure collectivist rational that allows for the confiscation of wealth by a torch and pitch fork wielding mob. This person came to the US and became a US citizen, established himself, paid into 'the system' while he was a US citizen and via his own effort created more wealth for himself and others then you, I or anyone else on this board could of or will ever likely create in our lifetimes.
His success isn't due to some bureaucrat signing off on papers but based on his work and the work of his partners whose innovative ideas were encouraged by the realization that they could and would generate large sums of wealth if they themselves followed through on these ideas and were willing to take risks others would not.
And that demand is only realized in the private sector where the ability to take risk and earn rewards is allowed without the fear of others coming in to take a large cut without putting in any risk. In addition who is to say someone else would of taken the same risks as this guy? That is a pretty presumptuous position to assume that others would "step in" to fill a demand without actually knowing the risk they took or the work they put into this business.
You again make it sound as if his success and resulting wealth was ordained and approved by a governmental bureaucrat. What is worse is that you completely over look the taxes already generated by FB and its employees which includes the 900-1,000 millionaires it created and the taxes he paid when he was a US citizen prior to facebook taking off and becoming a huge success.
What you are arguing for is to take away wealth generated by an indivdual in law abiding manner because you feel upset that he renounced his citizenship because you also feel entitled to take from others without any clear reasoning as to why you are owed his money. Especially when your contributions to society no doubt pale in comparison to his in the grand scheme of who owes what and who has paid into "the system".
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