F-22 crashes in California desert near air base

[ProfJohn]

F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

 

[Balt]

You could use that silly argument to try to justify anything. Let's build a $50 million statue of Ronald McDonald. It's only a fraction of what we spend on defense so it's okay!!!!

 

[Craig234]

Actually, as far as the point that there's too much attention on the bonuses and not enough on other money, he is making the same point I've made.

As far as using the jet crash to make the point - well, the moral of the story there is, we spend too much on military jets and other spending with the corrupt defense sector.

We talk about the corruption of the finance industry; another of the great corrupt sectors is the defense industry.

Wall Street always blackmailed policy with the threat if they don't get their way the economy will suffer; defense does so with our security supposedly being at risk.

Funny, you might think that with spending as much as the rest of the world combined, our 'efficient private sector' might be able to provide for security for less money.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Leave it to profjohn to turn a crashed military jet, with an "unknown" status on the pilot into an opportunity to be a whiney douche.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Well now that you mention it $140 million for one freakin airplane seems like a rip-off to me.

 

[Carmen813]

It's an incredibly good airplane and it has better air superiority ability than the JSF, which was mainly designed to replace the F16/18.

 

[Brovane]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Well now that you mention it $140 million for one freakin airplane seems like a rip-off to me.

A Airbus A380 cost over 300+ million per unit. Jet plans are expensive.

 

[jpeyton]

ProJo should edit the OP to reflect the actual cost:

By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft.

And remember, that cost is only when all 183 are delivered; that might happen by 2011. Right now the cost per plane is even higher than $339 million each.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Brovane

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Well now that you mention it $140 million for one freakin airplane seems like a rip-off to me.

A Airbus A380 cost over 300+ million per unit. Jet plans are expensive.

Yeah, but that plane will seat 800 people.

 

[dammitgibs]

Seriously if you want to make an argument for cutting back on defense spending there's plenty of more respectable ways to do it than to use a tragedy that may or may not have claimed an American's life.

However I'm not disagreeing with cutting military budget and I'm interested to hear what people think; how much needs to be cut, 10%, 50%? What do you base this off of? As a result of reduced defense spending are you willing to accept that we lose our technological advantage, that our military falls behind some of the other nations? Are you willing to accept that troops get less funding for the equipment/protection they need to do their jobs safely?

 

[Aikouka]

There's a difference between the cost to build the physical jet and the cost when you include all of the parts of the process. It would be incorrect to include the figure of total procurement cost / units because that is not the true loss incurred from the crash. If they built another unit to replace the crashed jet, it would cost $140 million. They don't magically have to go through the other $190 million worth of the process to produce another jet.

 

[Brovane]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Brovane

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Well now that you mention it $140 million for one freakin airplane seems like a rip-off to me.

A Airbus A380 cost over 300+ million per unit. Jet plans are expensive.

Yeah, but that plane will seat 800 people.

Will it do Mach 1+, super-cruise at supersonic speeds and is the A380 stealthy? Can the A380 beat 4 F-15's in a 4:1 engagement?

Both planes are expensive but where built to do different tasks.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
There's a difference between the cost to build the physical jet and the cost when you include all of the parts of the process. It would be incorrect to include the figure of total procurement cost / units because that is not the true loss incurred from the crash. If they built another unit to replace the crashed jet, it would cost $140 million. They don't magically have to go through the other $190 million worth of the process to produce another jet.

Somebody has a clue in P&N? Lies.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

You're right military spending is the greater boondogle.

 

[miketheidiot]

they shoudl build more of these if they are going to keep falling out of the sky

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
You're right military spending is the greater boondogle.

While you may not like expensive jets or helicopters, there are aspects of defense spending that benefit us... GPS is a good example of this. There's also the predecessor to the Internet (ARPANET). Not everything benefits us as much as the two examples I mentioned, but at least there are some good uses (note, I'm not inferring that you think there are none) 🙂.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
ProJo should edit the OP to reflect the actual cost:

By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft.

And remember, that cost is only when all 183 are delivered; that might happen by 2011. Right now the cost per plane is even higher than $339 million each.

Not entirely true. A lot of new technologies that were developed for the F-22 will roll over to new planes that are created in the future or electronics components will roll down into newer variants of jets still being purchased.

So yes, the program overall costs are x dollars, but some of that money will result in reduced research costs for other programs.

Note, I'm not saying that we're not wasting a ton of money on Defense. I just think pointing at the F-22 as a waste of money is the wrong place to point the fingers.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Brovane
Will it do Mach 1+, super-cruise at supersonic speeds and is the A380 stealthy? Can the A380 beat 4 F-15's in a 4:1 engagement?

Both planes are expensive but where built to do different tasks.

Well thank you Captain Obvious...

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Brovane

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Brovane

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Well now that you mention it $140 million for one freakin airplane seems like a rip-off to me.

A Airbus A380 cost over 300+ million per unit. Jet plans are expensive.

Yeah, but that plane will seat 800 people.

Will it do Mach 1+, super-cruise at supersonic speeds and is the A380 stealthy? Can the A380 beat 4 F-15's in a 4:1 engagement?

Both planes are expensive but where built to do different tasks.

And I'm sure both planes could be built cheaper if they HAD to.

 

[cwjerome]

I was able to see a F22 demo at Luke Air Force base just a few days ago. It's a stud... I got to see things I've never seen a jet fighter do. Amazing.

The OP is mixing things a bit, because it's not about total dollars, it's more about where those dollars are going. If you're trying to make some point about AIG bonuses, I'm not sure this a good example unless you believe the defense department needs serious cutting.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
And I'm sure both planes could be built cheaper if they HAD to.

Ehh, while my experience is not in cost, these vehicles are not expensive for the same reasons as the often joked "$200,000 toilet seat." There's not just a lot of effort in designing and building the planes, but also quite a bit of effort that goes into ensuring they maintain proper operation. I'm not really referring to maintenance of the plane, but testing that occurs in the software packages, test models, etc. Then there's just the large overhead costs, which you can somewhat see in Jpeyton's post... it can get quite hefty! Just don't dig back and cite that one article about the whole crossing the IDL causing an issue in the F22 (I believe it was the F22...) 😛.

Point is that there's a lot that goes into these aircraft and it usually is not very transparent. It's quite possible that given foresight, they could cut the cost down on a military program (they could avoid potential issues, avoid changes by including them in the initial proposal/RFP, etc), but sometimes things just don't work out that way. Another thing I'm trying to get at is that some of the testing cost is rather necessary when it comes to aircraft because of all that's involved to ensure they operate properly.

But hey, someone might say that the $200,000 toilet seat needs lots of testing too 😉. Gotta make sure my bum is comfy!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: jpeyton
ProJo should edit the OP to reflect the actual cost:

By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft.

And remember, that cost is only when all 183 are delivered; that might happen by 2011. Right now the cost per plane is even higher than $339 million each.

Not entirely true. A lot of new technologies that were developed for the F-22 will roll over to new planes that are created in the future or electronics components will roll down into newer variants of jets still being purchased.

So yes, the program overall costs are x dollars, but some of that money will result in reduced research costs for other programs.

Note, I'm not saying that we're not wasting a ton of money on Defense. I just think pointing at the F-22 as a waste of money is the wrong place to point the fingers.

the F-35 in particular benefited from F-22-developed technologies

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I was able to see a F22 demo at Luke Air Force base just a few days ago. It's a stud... I got to see things I've never seen a jet fighter do. Amazing.

The OP is mixing things a bit, because it's not about total dollars, it's more about where those dollars are going. If you're trying to make some point about AIG bonuses, I'm not sure this a good example unless you believe the defense department needs serious cutting.

I haven't been to an air show in years. If they have an F-22 flying within ~300 miles of me sometime this summer I'd go see it.

 

[Aikouka]

Some people were wondering and according to this article, the pilot died

.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Brovane

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Brovane

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
F-22 = $140 million
AIG bonuses = $165 million

So in one plane crash we have lost the equivalent of the AIG bonuses.

My point:
We have a government that is going to spend $4 trillion this year and we are freaking out over $165 million???

Do the math:
$165 million = .00004% of our government budget.

Why are people so upset about the AIG bonuses, but so quiet about the other $4 trillion we are spending????

F22 story via yahoo

An F-22 Raptor jet fighter crashed Wednesday in the high desert of Southern California, Air Force officials said.
Rescue crews were en route to the crash site and the status of the pilot was not immediately known, said Air Force Maj. David Small at the Pentagon.
The two-engine stealth jet, which was on a test mission, crashed six miles north of the base on Harbor Dry Lakebed, Small said. The plane is flown by a single pilot.
The $140 million supersonic F-22 is the force's new top-of-the-line fighter. The U.S. military has committed to 183 of the jets, down from a plan in the 1980s to build 750.
Phone messages left with the base's public affairs office were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Well now that you mention it $140 million for one freakin airplane seems like a rip-off to me.

A Airbus A380 cost over 300+ million per unit. Jet plans are expensive.

Yeah, but that plane will seat 800 people.

Will it do Mach 1+, super-cruise at supersonic speeds and is the A380 stealthy? Can the A380 beat 4 F-15's in a 4:1 engagement?

Both planes are expensive but where built to do different tasks.

And I'm sure both planes could be built cheaper if they HAD to.

There is a lot of R&D costs associated with the pricetag. The soviets always had the philosophy to make airplanes cheap and make more of them. The U.S. has the philosophy of making a jet durable that it will last a lot longer. Think of the service life of an F-16. I remember living at Clark Air Force base in the philippines and in 1986 they were just starting to replace the f-4 with the f-16.

And sort of back on topic... the bonus uproar from congress and the president is all about appeasement.