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F-16 pilot was ready to ram hijacked plane on 9/11

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There's also the fact that we had alot of resources out doing 9-11 drills elsewhere so that they were occupied when the real thing went down... yeah yeah, mock the link I'm posting.. it was just the first in google. You can find the same facts on thousands of other web sites also if you want.

http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html

911wargames.gif

 
EagleKeeper said:
Anyone understanding what the difference is between a lead bullet and a HE or AP round is?

The lead bullet has very little penetration capability. Used for training against drogues. Think of difference between a NERF football vs the real thing.

.It takes about 20-30 minutes to swap out the magazines and it not normally done when the engines are running. That adds another 5-10 minutes to shut down and restart afterwards

When you are told to launch, you go with what you have and figure out how to best use the assets you have.

The speed of ramming into the tail of a heavy does not allow time to react afterwards to eject. - You will have a damaged cockpit due to the impact and wil go down with probably no control
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I thought they had 20mm cannon, and thus don't the bullets explode? They do a shit ton of damage.
 
randomrogue said:
Still sounds like an excuse. They couldn't get an armed plane from somewhere on the eastern seaboard up there? How long does it take to get armed planes from Norfolk up there? I bet the Canadians could have sent something down lol

The more I read this story the more it sounds like complete bullshit.
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Cold war was over years before. We don't have fighters in the air 24/7 prowling the coastline.
 
uclaLabrat said:
I thought they had 20mm cannon, and thus don't the bullets explode? They do a shit ton of damage.
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They were loaded only with training rounds. They were training. It's a National Guard unit. It's not the USAF.

Does anyone read the thread at all before they post?
 
randomrogue said:
Still sounds like an excuse. They couldn't get an armed plane from somewhere on the eastern seaboard up there? How long does it take to get armed planes from Norfolk up there? I bet the Canadians could have sent something down lol

The more I read this story the more it sounds like complete bullshit.
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Get them there how? You can't defy the laws of physics. You can't afterburn your way across country, you'll quickly be out of fuel and need a tanker or have to land.

You can't go at top speed except at high altitude with afterburners. If you afterburn your way to altitude, you'll need fuel immediately.

An F-16's cruise speed for a long distance run is not much faster than the 757's cruise speed.
 
I'm not an expert on a F16. I'll happily admit that.

Google:

Speed: 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)
Range: More than 2,002 miles ferry range (1,740 nautical miles)

Norfolk is maybe 150 miles? Just guessing.
 
randomrogue said:
Still sounds like an excuse. They couldn't get an armed plane from somewhere on the eastern seaboard up there? How long does it take to get armed planes from Norfolk up there? I bet the Canadians could have sent something down lol

The more I read this story the more it sounds like complete bullshit.
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Andrews is 5 minutes away.
Norfolk is an additional 20 minute flying time; Andrews had a plane already prepped.
NAS Norfolk and Oceana do not keep fighters on ready alert
 
randomrogue said:
I'm not an expert on a F16. I'll happily admit that.

Google:

Speed: 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)
Range: More than 2,002 miles ferry range (1,740 nautical miles)

Norfolk is maybe 150 miles? Just guessing.
Click to expand...

You will have dry internal tanks in about 10 minutes on burner.

Max speed at sea level is about 900mph. Roughly 15 miles a minute. If everything goes perfectly, you'll run out of fuel after about 150 miles unless you have a tanker ready or you land and refuel.

A 150 mile hop will be at sea level.

Assuming a plane was fueled, armed, and ready with a pilot ready to go.

These speed numbers are for a "clean" configuration, so subtract a little if it has pods or missiles mounted.

Ferry is with external tanks.

IIRC, your average F-16 on burner uses about 2 gallons of fuel a second.
 
People want to say, "It's this fast, it was this far away, so it should have been able to get there in this time."

But it's nowhere near that simple.
 
Wouldn't it be pretty damn hard to hit the tail going that fast? I don't know how fast that thing goes but I imagine you see the plane and about 10 seconds later you are past it.
 
EagleKeeper said:
Andrews is 5 minutes away.
Norfolk is an additional 20 minute flying time; Andrews had a plane already prepped.
NAS Norfolk and Oceana do not keep fighters on ready alert
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would have come from langley and not the norfolk area. can't say how rapid deploy ready the air force was, but the navy bases by this time had become very peace time mode, in part to save $$$.
 
TheNinja said:
Wouldn't it be pretty damn hard to hit the tail going that fast? I don't know how fast that thing goes but I imagine you see the plane and about 10 seconds later you are past it.
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Yes, from the side, but these are fighter pilots so it's not that difficult for them. They are used to judging high speed intercepts.

You could come directly from behind, slightly below or above, and hit that way and probably do the job.
 
I went whale watching outside San Diego in 2000. I think it was April so a bit less than 1.5 years before the attacks. It seems like everyone in San Diego is either a Marine or in the Navy and the captain of the whale watching boat was ex-Navy. As we were leaving the harbor one of the aircraft carriers was coming in. The captain of our boat did something like raise and lower the US flag on our ship which then led the Aircraft carrier to do the same thing with about 40 soldiers coming out on the edge to salute. Was very cool. Three things struck me. First, how long it was taking to get out of the damn harbor. Second off how close we could get to a carrier. I doubt that's true anymore. Third that the deck had armed jets on it. There were only a handful but I'm pretty sure they were armed. Since I'm no expert I'll admit they could have been fuel tanks or something but from where I was at they looked armed. Maybe San Diego is unique but there seemed to be an awful lot of firepower there. You saw tanks from the side of the freeway, Navy Seals on the beach, a whole squadron of Helicopters of all sorts over by Coronado, tons of smaller Navy ships with giant guns, etc.

How hard could it really have been to dig up 1 or 2 jets that were armed on 9-11? I mentioned Norfolk since I know they have a giant navy base. You'd think the Airforce at Andrews would have 1 plane, with 1 missile, with 1 pilot, ready to go. It's just a lack of preparedness that it wasn't the case and I really don't think there's a good excuse for it.
 
lupi said:
would have come from langley and not the norfolk area. can't say how rapid deploy ready the air force was, but the navy bases by this time had become very peace time mode, in part to save $$$.
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USAF will not have a ready alert

The poster specifically referenced Norfolk

Langley AFB is roughly the same distance +/- 10 miles as NAS Norfolk.
 
randomrogue said:
I went whale watching outside San Diego in 2000. I think it was April so a bit less than 1.5 years before the attacks. It seems like everyone in San Diego is either a Marine or in the Navy and the captain of the whale watching boat was ex-Navy. As we were leaving the harbor one of the aircraft carriers was coming in. The captain of our boat did something like raise and lower the US flag on our ship which then led the Aircraft carrier to do the same thing with about 40 soldiers coming out on the edge to salute. Was very cool. Three things struck me. First, how long it was taking to get out of the damn harbor. Second off how close we could get to a carrier. I doubt that's true anymore. Third that the deck had armed jets on it. There were only a handful but I'm pretty sure they were armed. Since I'm no expert I'll admit they could have been fuel tanks or something but from where I was at they looked armed. Maybe San Diego is unique but there seemed to be an awful lot of firepower there. You saw tanks from the side of the freeway, Navy Seals on the beach, a whole squadron of Helicopters of all sorts over by Coronado, tons of smaller Navy ships with giant guns, etc.

How hard could it really have been to dig up 1 or 2 jets that were armed on 9-11? I mentioned Norfolk since I know they have a giant navy base. You'd think the Airforce at Andrews would have 1 plane, with 1 missile, with 1 pilot, ready to go. It's just a lack of preparedness that it wasn't the case and I really don't think there's a good excuse for it.
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20/20 hindsight.

There was no reason at all for US based aircraft to be on any type of ready alert.

Nearest hostile country was over 150 miles way from the US mainland.
The area there is flooded with radar intercept capability.
 
Meh, I can't remember what we thought back then since we never discussed this issue. They simply told us that they couldn't find the planes.
 
In all fairness, it's easy to say you'd be a hero when you didn't get the chance to be one.

Sadly she is probably making a lot of cash doing this dog and pony show since she's got a face for TV.
 
alkemyst said:
In all fairness, it's easy to say you'd be a hero when you didn't get the chance to be one.

Sadly she is probably making a lot of cash doing this dog and pony show since she's got a face for TV.
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Yeah, I guess that's why she said the real heroes were the people that stopped the hijackers. 🙄
 
OutHouse said:
??? im sorry but 105 rounds is more than enough to take down a 737. 2-3 20mm in one engine would do it no problem.
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Did you read the part about the debris field? If you shoot out an engine, you have a large plane landing on something.

But if you ram it, you break everything up into smaller pieces, which reduces the chances for major damage on the ground.
 
sixone said:
Did you read the part about the debris field? If you shoot out an engine, you have a large plane landing on something.

But if you ram it, you break everything up into smaller pieces, which reduces the chances for major damage on the ground.
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I've been trying to make that point. You did it better than I could.

Knocking off the VS would cause the plane to break up from aerodynamic forces when it becomes unstable and turns broadside to the direction of travel.
 
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