Exxon can lick my bawls

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: BigB10293
So do something about it. Don't buy a gasoline engine based car. You are the consumer. You have the power to change the situation.

And what would you suggest a an alternative?

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: luckysnafu
Supply and Demand. Stop buying so damn much and the price will go down.

:roll:
That has nothing to do with it and you damn well know it.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: BigB10293
So do something about it. Don't buy a gasoline engine based car. You are the consumer. You have the power to change the situation.

And what would you suggest a an alternative?

Walk, ride a bike, buy an electric vehicle, buy a diesel & make your own biodiesel, hitchhike, ride a horse, there are any number of transportation methods that don't require you to fill up every week.

As long as you continue to pay for gas the oil companies have every incentive (and right) to keep jacking prices. They exist to make money, bringing you gas is just is just incidental.

Viper GTS

 

[TheAdvocate]

Thanks for the econ lesson dullard. Thats not what I said, but go for it.

Everytime you quote market forces, you assume that the normal ones are in play. In a market where there are very few to no competitors, a base level of constant demand, and instant price adjustments on already paid for supply, then the capitalistic market forces you're revering do not function properly. These companies like Exxon, major insurance providers, drug co's, etc essentially become cost allocaters rather than actual competitive providers. Exxon and a couple of other major suppliers and refiners essentially set the market price for all refined gas products. Yes, there are some outliers, but the bulk of the market is controlled by them and moves where they do. There is so little risk involved with marking up supply thats already been refined and is waiting in distributor tanks, that it's egregious to overcharge for it.

No one with any sense begrudges Exxon's desire to make a fair profit. That IS what they are in business for, and they do have a responsibility to their shareholders. But showing, or even worse, realizing record profits for two quarters during and immediatly after a national disaster like Katrina is terrible PR and poor ethical decison making by the company officers and directors.

 

[luckysnafu]

Originally posted by: Jzero
Gallon-for-gallon, still cheaper than bottled water.

And you drink as many gallons of water as you use gas? :laugh:

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: dullard
If they try to sell at a higher price, no one would buy their goods and they'll go out of business.

Wrong. There is a fixed level of the demand that is constant, regardless of price. Exxon has an ethical duty to not gouge its customer base, but dont mention that in the ATOT Adam Smith land. Laissez-Faire - if it generates a profit, it must be right.

There is a point at which demand would fall. Would it drop to zero? Of course not. But if gas were $20 a gallon you can bet demand would drop.

People seem to think they have a right to cheap gas, and that simply isn't the case. Gas is a limited resource, they have it & we don't. They're entitled to profit as much as possible from that.

Viper GTS

LOL What a joke. You mean to tell me that while they are claiming they have to push the extra costs down to the consumer, they have record profits and you say its justified? Wow, no question you been sucking on a car exhaust pipe, either that or you have some stock invested in these companies. But for you say this is justified is a damn joke.

 

[joincamp]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Wrong. There is a fixed level of the demand that is constant, regardless of price.

You go right ahead then, go into business in a competetive market and attempt to sell significantly above the going rate. I'll sit back and watch you go bankrupt.

You are wrong that demand is constant. Yes, there is a base level that will always be purchased. But beyond that, there is a cost/demand curve where demand shrinks as cost increases.

If Exxon, for example, refused to sell oil at anything less than $100/barrel, no one would buy Exxon oil. There is a limited supply of other oil, so price will go up. As price goes up, demand DECREASES. There will be a new balance of lowered supply to demand, and a new price tag of that oil. By definition, that new price must be less than the price that Exxon attempted to sell it at and Exxon will sell nothing (otherwise supply would be the same and demand would be the same and the price of oil would stay at ~$69/barrel).

what choice do we really have as consumers though. love it or hate it, our society is totally dependant on oil. sure there are a few people out there with renewable energy sources and electric cars. care to give me some of that money you have? the fact remains that people have to go to work and heat their houses. Sure they can go less places, but that doesnt really change a whole lot in the big picture.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: joincamp
what choice do we really have as consumers though. love it or hate it, our society is totally dependant on oil. sure there are a few people out there with renewable energy sources and electric cars. care to give me some of that money you have? the fact remains that people have to go to work and heat their houses. Sure they can go less places, but that doesnt really change a whole lot in the big picture.

We don't have to buy as many goods (that use oil as a raw material). We don't have to take as many car trips. We don't have to have our houses at 72°F in the winter and in the summer. Electricity usage is probably our biggest way to control oil use. Buy a $10 space heater and for many people that'll have a bigger drop on oil use than buying a hybrid car. It doesn't take a lot of money to use less oil.

 

[classy]

And you know what else is sad. You'll get a bunch of republicans stand and have congressional hearings on steroids and morals of baseball, but look the other way while these companies whom they have cut back alley deals with stab the American Public in the back. Our sorry @ss President wants to remind everyone of the sacrafices needed to be made by the American people for war, but obviously these companies whom he and many of his hinchmen have stock in will continue to defraud the public. It ain't nothing but a form of legalized look the other way terrorism. They are nothing but terrorists, liars, cheats, and crooks.

 

[joincamp]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: joincamp
what choice do we really have as consumers though. love it or hate it, our society is totally dependant on oil. sure there are a few people out there with renewable energy sources and electric cars. care to give me some of that money you have? the fact remains that people have to go to work and heat their houses. Sure they can go less places, but that doesnt really change a whole lot in the big picture.

We don't have to buy as many goods (that use oil as a raw material). We don't have to take as many car trips. We don't have to have our houses at 72°F in the winter and in the summer. Electricity usage is probably our biggest way to control oil use. Buy a $10 space heater and for many people that'll have a bigger drop on oil use than buying a hybrid car. It doesn't take a lot of money to use less oil.

too bad most electricity comes from oil then. seeing as how i already dont take many trips, dont drive a big fat car, and keep my heat low, i'm not quite sure what you want me to do.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: joincamp
too bad most electricity comes from oil then. seeing as how i already dont take many trips, dont drive a big fat car, and keep my heat low, i'm not quite sure what you want me to do.

Most people don't keep their heat low or their AC temperatures high. What can you do? Hmm, buy space heaters for those people who live in cold climates.

 

[joincamp]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: joincamp
too bad most electricity comes from oil then. seeing as how i already dont take many trips, dont drive a big fat car, and keep my heat low, i'm not quite sure what you want me to do.

Most people don't keep their heat low or their AC temperatures high. What can you do? Hmm, buy space heaters for those people who live in cold climates.

what is it with you and space heaters? its oil->electricity->heat. obviously not a very efficent heat source.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

No one with any sense begrudges Exxon's desire to make a fair profit. That IS what they are in business for, and they do have a responsibility to their shareholders. But showing, or even worse, realizing record profits for two quarters during and immediatly after a national disaster like Katrina is terrible PR and poor ethical decison making by the company officers and directors.

Then don't buy from them, simple as that. You think have terrible PR and are unethical? Refuse to do business with them. Vote with your wallet. Otherwise, you are just another hypocrite who whines about something, but wants the government to fix it, as attempting to remedy the situation yourself is just "too hard."

Same thing with Wal-Mart. All you "superior" buyers who believe Wal-Mart to be beneath you, just don't buy from them. I mean, you see how much you guys are hurting them, right? :laugh:

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: joincamp
what is it with you and space heaters? its oil->electricity->heat. obviously not a very efficent heat source.

Having 90% of your house at 60°F and 10% at 70°F is a drastic reduction in heat loss. A drastic reduction of heat loss means less energy consumed. Less energy consumed means less oil used.

Take me for example. I bought a space heater this year and by winter utility bills have dropped. I'm using ~35% less energy than I did last year (and that includes the energy to run the space heater).

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: BriGy86

Originally posted by: CPA
Oh, and if anyone watched Bloomberg this morning, analysts are again saying oil is not the problem, refining it is. You can blame environmentalists for that problem.

Also, Chavez (Venezuela) is asking OPEC to lower production because there is too much oil in the market. Chavez, though, is looking out for his best interests and probably is saying it to push up oil prices further in order to screw the US. He likes to use oil as a weapon against us.

also what i heard

and from what i know a quart of oil for you car costs the same (maybe a few cents more) this year as last year, that oil and your gas come from the same crude oil barrel (the gas is just refined more)

and the last refinery that that was built in the US was about 1970 (i could be wrong) but i was a long time ago

but then you have to ask yourself a question, why would an oil company spend millions to make a refinery just so they can charge less for there product?

[feel free to correct me, all of these things are just specualtion]

Actually yes; there is a high arbitrage opportunity right now for competitors or new players to enter the marketplace. However, they cannot because of the environmental wackos who prevent new refineries from being built. In effect, the environmentalists are giving the current oil companies an oligopoly hence exxon having the highest profits ever.

 

[iversonyin]

OP: Stop driving a car and stop using gas. Boycott oil companies is the way to go!


LMFAO

 

[joincamp]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

No one with any sense begrudges Exxon's desire to make a fair profit. That IS what they are in business for, and they do have a responsibility to their shareholders. But showing, or even worse, realizing record profits for two quarters during and immediatly after a national disaster like Katrina is terrible PR and poor ethical decison making by the company officers and directors.

Then don't buy from them, simple as that. You think have terrible PR and are unethical? Refuse to do business with them. Vote with your wallet. Otherwise, you are just another hypocrite who whines about something, but wants the government to fix it, as attempting to remedy the situation yourself is just "too hard."

Same thing with Wal-Mart. All you "superior" buyers who believe Wal-Mart to be beneath you, just don't buy from them. I mean, you see how much you guys are hurting them, right? :laugh:

its easy to not buy from wal-mart cause they have competition. its not quite so easy to not use oil. they are a monopoly. if they raise their prices, you pretty much have to buy from them. sure, you could go off and buy a solar car or something stupid if you had enough money. but let's be realistic, we are getting ripped off and there isn't a whole lot most people can do about it.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

No one with any sense begrudges Exxon's desire to make a fair profit. That IS what they are in business for, and they do have a responsibility to their shareholders. But showing, or even worse, realizing record profits for two quarters during and immediatly after a national disaster like Katrina is terrible PR and poor ethical decison making by the company officers and directors.

Then don't buy from them, simple as that. You think have terrible PR and are unethical? Refuse to do business with them. Vote with your wallet. Otherwise, you are just another hypocrite who whines about something, but wants the government to fix it, as attempting to remedy the situation yourself is just "too hard."

Same thing with Wal-Mart. All you "superior" buyers who believe Wal-Mart to be beneath you, just don't buy from them. I mean, you see how much you guys are hurting them, right? :laugh:

1. Don't ignore the rest of my post, that was the meat, not this.

2. I don't shop at Exxon. Again though, you are completely ignoring the fact that market forces are NOT working properly in this situation because there are not enough competitors and there is a base level of absolutely constant demand (due to no viable alternatives).

3. please see cost allocation discussion

4. I dont shop at Wal Mart either. I try to stick to Costco & Target. Again though, there are numerous competitors in this market, there are no product alternatives to gas (from the macro perspective), and few competitor suppliers who do not really compete much anyway, they just pass along their costs at a fixed markup and sometimes mark up even more, which is the issue here.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: joincamp

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

No one with any sense begrudges Exxon's desire to make a fair profit. That IS what they are in business for, and they do have a responsibility to their shareholders. But showing, or even worse, realizing record profits for two quarters during and immediatly after a national disaster like Katrina is terrible PR and poor ethical decison making by the company officers and directors.

Then don't buy from them, simple as that. You think have terrible PR and are unethical? Refuse to do business with them. Vote with your wallet. Otherwise, you are just another hypocrite who whines about something, but wants the government to fix it, as attempting to remedy the situation yourself is just "too hard."

Same thing with Wal-Mart. All you "superior" buyers who believe Wal-Mart to be beneath you, just don't buy from them. I mean, you see how much you guys are hurting them, right? :laugh:

its easy to not buy from wal-mart cause they have competition. its not quite so easy to not use oil. they are a monopoly. if they raise their prices, you pretty much have to buy from them. sure, you could go off and buy a solar car or something stupid if you had enough money. but let's be realistic, we are getting ripped off and there isn't a whole lot most people can do about it.

Ride a bike

 

[iversonyin]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

 

[EKKC]

just buy their stocks and laugh it up at others while filling it up at the station, the money you will gain will cover the gas and then some.

just like investing in tobacco companies, if the government ain;t doing a damn thing to stop big tobacco or big oil, join them!!!

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: BriGy86

Originally posted by: CPA
Oh, and if anyone watched Bloomberg this morning, analysts are again saying oil is not the problem, refining it is. You can blame environmentalists for that problem.

Also, Chavez (Venezuela) is asking OPEC to lower production because there is too much oil in the market. Chavez, though, is looking out for his best interests and probably is saying it to push up oil prices further in order to screw the US. He likes to use oil as a weapon against us.

also what i heard

and from what i know a quart of oil for you car costs the same (maybe a few cents more) this year as last year, that oil and your gas come from the same crude oil barrel (the gas is just refined more)

and the last refinery that that was built in the US was about 1970 (i could be wrong) but i was a long time ago

but then you have to ask yourself a question, why would an oil company spend millions to make a refinery just so they can charge less for there product?

[feel free to correct me, all of these things are just specualtion]

Actually yes; there is a high arbitrage opportunity right now for competitors or new players to enter the marketplace. However, they cannot because of the environmental wackos who prevent new refineries from being built. In effect, the environmentalists are giving the current oil companies an oligopoly hence exxon having the highest profits ever.

Finally an intelligent response. The irony is powerful, isn't it?

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Cooler

Originally posted by: joincamp
jerks

and gas prices are rising still why? because they can. and no one can stop them. wtf.

agreed the us goverment should regulate the price more.

No thanks!!! I remember when they did that and it sucked worse having to stand in line for gas.

 

[joincamp]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

1. Don't ignore the rest of my post, that was the meat, not this.

2. I don't shop at Exxon. Again though, you are completely ignoring the fact that market forces are NOT working properly in this situation because there are not enough competitors and there is a base level of absolutely constant demand (due to no viable alternatives).

3. please see cost allocation discussion

4. I dont shop at Wal Mart either. I try to stick to Costco & Target. Again though, there are numerous competitors in this market, there are no product alternatives to gas (from the macro perspective), and few competitor suppliers who do not really compete much anyway, they just pass along their costs at a fixed markup and sometimes mark up even more, which is the issue here.

QFT

Originally posted by: iversonyin
Ride a bike.

Whatever dude. That doesnt change anything. There is a bigger problem at hand than you can change by simply altering your lifestyle. Millions of people are getting ripped off. You act like you don't rely on oil at all. Unless you are a hermit who lives off the land and stumbled into an internet cafe and posted 1600 times, I'm gonna guess you do. The point is, we are getting ripped off, and it sucks.