Extraterrestrials, how much can we know about them?

[DigDog]

that's because you are thinking "AI will never have the spontaneous intelligence that an organic being has". But that doesn't take into consideration two factors: 1.It doesn't need to, and 2.We don't, either.

Our intelligence is far more mechanical than we suspect. Just like early polymers consuming other polymers, they exhibit a mechanical behaviour which, from our observation, mimics the strong eating the weak, and eventually evolves into that.

Never, at any point, did this mechanism become "something more", just something "more complex".
Arguably, a PC as we know it now is an AI. Any mechanism is an AI, a person is an AI, a cog is an AI; the concept of intelligence is nowhere near as sophisticated as you think it
is, it's actually very base.

You can trace intelligence back directly to the creation of elements in the sun, there is never any gap or break between the simple "eating" of one chemical compound by another, and us creating robots several million years later.
Intelligence = life = chemistry = physics.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I can accept the premise that intelligent life is a planetary product, not a single species thing. After all, there's discussion concerning the intelligence of other earthly species, e.g. dolphins.

However, I remain skeptical concerning the eventuality of AI. So far, AI on earth can only solve certain human specified problems, e.g. chess games, go games, design, mathematical problems. A computer or circuit can help inter-neural systems, but AFAIK basically nothing has been developed that will begin to approach the human nervous system and its capacity for intelligence and creative adaptation. I don't think that extra-corporeal systems will supplant the DNA basis of intelligence on this planet.

From Teaching McLuhan: Understanding Understanding Media (online discussion of McLuhan's Understanding Media):

" Media as Extensions of Ourselves

The core of McLuhan’s theory, and the key idea to start with in explaining him, is his definition of media as extensions of ourselves. McLuhan writes: “It is the persistent theme of this book that all technologies are extensions of our physical and nervous systems to increase power and speed” (90) and, “Any extension, whether of skin, hand, or foot, affects the whole psychic and social complex. Some of the principle extensions, together with some of their psychic and social consequences, are studied in this book” (4). From the premise that media, or technologies (McLuhan’s approach makes “media” and “technology” more or less synonymous terms), are extensions of some physical, social, psychological, or intellectual function of humans, flows all of McLuhan’s subsequent ideas. Thus, the wheel extends our feet, the phone extends our voice, television extends our eyes and ears, the computer extends our brain, and electronic media, in general, extend our central nervous system. "

The computer and etc. will extend our brain, but the brain itself is essential, will not be supplanted, nor will our feet, eyes and ears. Be good to them all! 😀

I also doubt about AI coming first before augmented humans.

I think it will go more like this :

First we get augmentation of the brain with computer support.
The experimental neural interfaces that we have now is nothing with what we will need.
We will get to better neural interfaces, making the neurons in the brain aware of the interface and the computers behind that interface. Making the unconscious brain become aware of such augmentation means the conscious mind becomes more potent. We will just know how to use the augmentations instead of training like we do now when thinking of thoughts.
What will happen is that we get humans, who can for example think of a very sophisticated mathematical equation and do the the math directly without delay and distraction. Something like idiot savants can do only far better and without the limitations that they typically have like being heavy autistic.

After this all happened, real AI will start to become a reality.
But the real AI is just the first step to grow fully designed humans.
Fully biological, that we grow limbs with for example carbon nanotubes enforced limbs and body plates. And more modifications to the genes to make this lifeform less dependent on food. In a sense, we go back to exo skeletons just like insects have. Only ours, will have all these computer alike goodies to increase survival rate in space. Better senses, comprising of detecting a very large part of the EM spectrum.

 

[DigDog]

oh wow, that was fast.

anyway, you are thinking our brain does something a computer does not.

well, that's partially true, but if had the same limitations that a computer has, we would fail just the same. and we can overcome those limitations in computers, it's not hard.

]i suggest this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

it's about abiogenesis. some elements have to be speculated, but there is not "fault" with the concept, it's just part of the scientific process to be missing some peripheral information, sometimes. (also, the same process could happen under multiple circumstances)

essentially, as soon as we - biological creatures - developed senses and a memory storage system, we were as smart as a computer today, although with less experience. there has never been any change in the system, it just got perfected.

 

[William Gaatjes]

oh wow, that was fast.

anyway, you are thinking our brain does something a computer does not.

well, that's partially true, but if had the same limitations that a computer has, we would fail just the same. and we can overcome those limitations in computers, it's not hard.

]i suggest this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

it's about abiogenesis. some elements have to be speculated, but there is not "fault" with the concept, it's just part of the scientific process to be missing some peripheral information, sometimes. (also, the same process could happen under multiple circumstances)

essentially, as soon as we - biological creatures - developed senses and a memory storage system, we were as smart as a computer today, although with less experience. there has never been any change in the system, it just got perfected.

Well, yeah, but to most people (including me) this for example

is abracadabra. Of course, i (and everybody else) can read about it and figure it out slowly but still.
When this is a lot easier, we have all these creative minds, not being held back by a lack of understanding or knowledge or insight normally provided by decades of experience.
Of course, we can follow a course and let someone explain it. Imagine if we could go much further than that. And that it would be in reach for every interested mind.

Imagine wanting to paint and you can look up and understand all limitations from every brush or device to paint, every paint ever existed, every cloth ever used. Be Bob Ross in an instant. That is the future. Solve physics problems with ease. Do simulations immediately. The limitations for creative minds is to get that knowledge there when it is needed and being able to make use of it at once without taking decades of experience.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Forgot the abiogenesis part, IMHO : The universe is filled with atoms that do self assembly whenever they come within vicinity to one and other. Life is just the evolution of molecular self assembly.
Life will always happen.


edit:

Forgot to mention, very interesting video. 🙂

 

[DigDog]

Life is just the evolution of molecular self assembly.
Life will always happen.

exactly ()🙂

 

[BUTCH1]

Considering the amount of stars just in the Milky way alone the probability of planets that are in the "sweet-spot" (water will not freeze solid constantly and temperature is not insanely hot or cold) I'd say life is probably abundant in our galaxy alone. Now as to contacting another intelligent species that's very, very difficult as the inverse square law means radio and TV transmissions will fade into the background hiss very quickly, the "I love Lucy" transmitted 50 years ago is not receivable 50 light-years away. Voyager is still transmitting with a 20-watt power from just outside our solar system but look at the size of the dish needed to pick up it's signals, it's monstrous!. Maybe a species has found a way around the barrier of nothing can travel faster than light but I'd doubt they would be interested in us anyway, we would be like fleas to them.

 

[Muse]

Considering the amount of stars just in the Milky way alone the probability of planets that are in the "sweet-spot" (water will not freeze solid constantly and temperature is not insanely hot or cold) I'd say life is probably abundant in our galaxy alone. Now as to contacting another intelligent species that's very, very difficult as the inverse square law means radio and TV transmissions will fade into the background hiss very quickly, the "I love Lucy" transmitted 50 years ago is not receivable 50 light-years away. Voyager is still transmitting with a 20-watt power from just outside our solar system but look at the size of the dish needed to pick up it's signals, it's monstrous!. Maybe a species has found a way around the barrier of nothing can travel faster than light but I'd doubt they would be interested in us anyway, we would be like fleas to them.

I think this may sum it up.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Think of what a strange thing reality could be. Imagine if we locate a radio signal that can't possibly be a natural occurrence and observe the world its coming from has all the signs of life but its impossible to ever confirm it because they are too far away.

 

[DigDog]

the thing is, "aliens" and every subject connected has a strong draw on people's imagination; this clouds objectivity when considering the issue.

 

[Muse]

Think of what a strange thing reality could be. Imagine if we locate a radio signal that can't possibly be a natural occurrence and observe the world its coming from has all the signs of life but its impossible to ever confirm it because they are too far away.

Is this feasible? Something like a morse code signal, something clearly created by intelligence but otherwise holds no "useful" info?