Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: piasabird
No matter what kind of body armor they made, it could be made better.
Our soldiers deserve the absolute best at any time.
As if you or someone who writes for the NYT would have any clue as to what the best might be. Stop trolling.
WyteWatt makes some excellent points about the issues surrounding body armor. I've worn the stuff, and I'll be wearing it full time in a few days. It's heavy and hot, and I'm not looking forward to when the temperature starts climbing over there.
However, I won't even be one of those guys wearing the armor PLUS a rifle and ammunition PLUS a radio PLUS grenades PLUS various other pieces of equipment and running and dodging bullets,
in that same heat. The load of an infantryman is something like 100lbs despite all the improvements in materials that have been made. Between the helmet and the body armor, that's about 35lbs of it. You want to add more? An exhausted turtle is easy prey.
Incidentally, "just make the plates a little bigger" sounds great, but have you ever seen the size difference between a 25lb and 35lb plate in the weight room? It's not huge. Those ceramic armor plates weigh about 7 lbs each (somewhere around there), and adding a little around the edges could easily increase that weight a couple pounds. Multiply by two, and you're talking 18lbs from the ceramic plates alone. Put some under the arms and some on the shoulders, and you're likely pushing 28lbs of ceramic. Then we're looking at nearly 50lbs from the helmet and body armor. Easy for the liberal chickensh!ts here to talk about how Bush is failing the troops, while they want to pile on weight for guys running around in 120 degree weather.
As for the article in the OP, it's the usual liberal drivel. Let's talk some specifics (even if conjur won't, and darkhawk can't):
The vulnerability of the military's body armor has been known since the start of the war
Cute. Let's mix up a discussion about new armor technology with one about different armor types (flak vests vs. actual body armor for small arms). The initial dick-up at the beginning of the war was folks going into theater with the Vietnam-era vests which are effective against artillery shrapnel as opposed to the Interceptor vests with the SAPI plates. That's fixed (flak vests are still out there -- that's what I was issued for Korea). This latest argument is that the Interceptor vests with the plates (formerly hailed as perfect by liberals) are no long adequate because people are getting killed with shots from the sides. Well, duh. When bullets fly, people die -- they have this nasty habit of finding openings. Are we going to cover troops' faces with ceramic, too? Anyone care to notice that deaths from front and rear torso shots are basically gone??
Anyway, they did notice a problem with the Interceptors because of the seam on the sides where even shrapnel could find a way in. That's something that happens when you use something in combat -- you find out how well it works, and then improve on it. So, they set about making an addition to the vests, and the Air Force came up with some and sent them recently with some Security Forces (USAF cops) from here, Wright-Patterson AFB, for field testing. Read this part:
THAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR. Not 2003. Not 2004. 2005, field testing. Now I believe they are in production, but I am not sure if they are modifying the design at all.
Also, if you want to critisize the administration for failing to get things to the troops in time, especially things that need to be developed first, then why don't you stop squawking when things like the Boeing tanker deal happen or when KBR overcharges for food services? See, there's a connection between accurate, detailed, non-fraudulent accounting and speed. If you have the first, you don't have the second. Period. When we're dealing with people, there will always be a criminal element. As long as the mission is accomplished (tools to the troops), big f-ing deal if someone gets some extra cash. We can deal with that later. I work in the acquisitions world right now, and it's a complete and utter waste of taxpayer money. It has nothing to do with the current administration, and everything to do with the nature of government civilians, the nature of the legacy of past acquisitions, Congressional oversight, fear of bad press, and a whole ton of CYA.
Not sure why I looked for a factual discussion of anything in P&N. Saw the story on MSNBC and figured someone would spin it to attack the administration.
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