External test boot on off loop

[sullyy]

http://imgur.com/a/ju95c here are the photos. 1. is just the mobo, 2. is the motherboard with the PSU and hdd (i've been trying with and without the hdd) and 3. is it connected to the monitor

 

[crashtech]

I don't see anything obviously wrong. My suggestion now would be to remove the CPU and very carefully examine (with a good light and a magnifying glass) the pins in the socket for damage. They are very delicate!

 

[chusteczka]

Sullyy, you may trust their advice. Their knowledge is more sophisticated than mine. I reached out to them through private message and they were kind enough to assist over the weekend.

They are the ones that were having a discussion concerning an older cpu and bios but they found the reason was for something else. You may trust them when they say an older model cpu is not necessary. If you haven't already, do not open that new cpu, leave the packaging closed and return it to get your money back. They mentioned that it will not help with this situation and they may be relied upon.

Strip the setup down to the basic components as Crashtech and Ketchup mentioned, and try again.

If it is found necessary to return the motherboard, an exchange for the same make should be fine. Gigabyte is a solid brand, and my preferred brand to be honest.

You haven't mentioned if you were able to get into System Information with <F9> or the bios with <Delete>. Have the symptoms changed or does the original situation persist with a boot first attempting the M_Bios, followed by the B_Bios?


EDIT:
Also, as Crashtech mentioned, be sure that your monitor is properly set to receive a digital video signal and not an analog video signal. I have had that happen to me also. It should be a button on the monitor that will allow you to switch.

 

[sullyy]

Okay I made sure the monitor connection and input were correct and even tried using the VGA cable instead of DVI and changing the input but still got nothing (I also checked that the monitor is working at all because it too is new, but it definitely can display). I just connected a keyboard and tapping f9 or delete hasn't changed anything. I just found a magnifying glass so I'm going to take out the cpu soon and check the motherboards pins for damage.

 

[chusteczka]

Sounds good. Failing any damage to the cpu, which I doubt will be the case, then return that motherboard.

Thanks for replying that you were unable to get into System Information or the bios.

I am sorry this has been such a trial for you. I had a bad new motherboard once, nearly drove me crazy through almost a week's worth of troubleshooting but I couldn't find anything else to be the cause. The motherboard that replaced it surprisingly worked just fine. Motherboard issues are the worst because they leave us guessing if it is really the cause of the problem or not.

 

[sullyy]

Well I just took out the CPU and looked at it and the socket under a magnifying glass and couldn't find anything off. I think what I'll do is because my microcenter apparently carries the motherboard I'm using (hadn't realized so I bought it on newegg) I'll get it tomorrow morning while I return the CPU and set it up, if it works then it clearly was just a defective motherboard here if it doesn't I'll be able to return it (I checked when I was getting the CPU and at least my microcenter will accept motherboards within 15 days if they are in new condition). If the microcenter motherboard works I'll RMA this one the same day.

Also no need to be sorry about this, I can't believe how much help you're all giving me. Thanks so much for sticking with me to help figure this out.

Edit: I'll probably go to sleep soon cause I don't think there's much more I can do or check tonight but I'll update the second I get back from microcenter tomorrow

 

[chusteczka]

The plan with getting a new motherboard from Microcenter sounds good. You have done well with this trial.

 

[crashtech]

It can be very difficult to diagnose boot failure problems without having extra core components available. Many of us who build multiple machines end up with extra stuff with which to perform tests. Nice that you live near a Microcenter and can obtain replacement parts quickly.

 

[sullyy]

Oh I just went on microcenters site to reserve the motherboard before I went and got it and discovered that it's "refurbished" would that be a reason not to get it? I don''t really know how much that may affect it.

Edit: Never mind it looks like further down on their site they have the same motherboard not refurbished. I'm still curious if it would ever make sense to get refurbished parts but the price looks the same here so I won't.

 

[crashtech]

Refurbished means it is used and has presumably been checked for functionality. I don't like "refurbished" hard drives, but I might take a mobo if it is a great price and at least has a non-DOA warranty.

 

[mfenn]

The Celeron G1840 is also a Haswell Refresh part requiring BIOS F9, so it's not going to help you. If your local MC has a Celeron G1820 or G1830, then you could try one of them. They are original Haswell parts requiring BIOS F7.

 

[crashtech]

I am seeking reasonable confirmation that any 8-series board will not boot with a Haswell Refresh CPU. All of these CPUs, Haswell and Haswell Refresh, are core stepping C0, afaik, which indicates they should all boot but perhaps not be properly recognized and/or not be able to have their multiplier adjusted manually.

 

[sullyy]

They didn't have anything lower than the 1840 which I've already returned. I have the new motherboard but sadly I screwed up in that I've run out of the thermal compound that came with my CPU cooler. I knew I might so I got arctic silver but I just opened it to discover what I got is arctic silver thermal adhesive not thermal compound, that there's a difference, and that it would be a very bad idea for me to use this on my CPU. Everywhere I can think to find thermal compound is closed this late on a sunday so I guess I'll just have to get thermal compound tomorrow morning. I feel really stupid about this.

 

[chusteczka]

Little mistakes like that happen. Certainly nothing to feel bad about. This issue has had you, and me , second-guessing every move for a few days now. Maybe it is time to take a break and relax a bit. You will return to the work tomorrow or Tuesday refreshed and feeling better.

 

[Ketchup]

They didn't have anything lower than the 1840 which I've already returned. I have the new motherboard but sadly I screwed up in that I've run out of the thermal compound that came with my CPU cooler. I knew I might so I got arctic silver but I just opened it to discover what I got is arctic silver thermal adhesive not thermal compound, that there's a difference, and that it would be a very bad idea for me to use this on my CPU. Everywhere I can think to find thermal compound is closed this late on a sunday so I guess I'll just have to get thermal compound tomorrow morning. I feel really stupid about this.

Been there. The moment you are so close to testing a fix and there is an unavoidable issue. Patience is key.

 

[sm625]

Dont focus on thermal paste. That cant even be an issue until the cpu has been running for several minutes. I routinely test haswells in my lab and they dont even need the heatsink or fan installed until I load the cores. You need to get an older cpu to test.

 

[sullyy]

Well I'm sad to report that the new motherboard is having the exact same issue, turning off after about 2 seconds then starting again. Right now all that's there is the motherboard, CPU and CPU cooler, 1 stick of RAM, and connections to PSU (both motherboard and ATX_12V_2x4) and to monitor. I'm not sure how to proceed, should I look back into getting a non-Haswell Refresh CPU to test?

Also I remembered as I installed the CPU again that I had been worried about it's orientation. I couldn't really tell by looking at the grooves on the side which way to place the CPU the very first time I put it in, but then I noticed a triangle on one corner of the CPU and a triangle on one corner of the plate that closes over the CPU. I assumed that these were meant to match up, but it hadn't occurred to me until now that maybe thatt was wrong. So was that maybe an incorrect assumption and could this issue be caused by an incorrectly oriented CPU?

 

[crashtech]

The CPU is very difficult to install incorrectly; damage may result to it, or more likely pins in the socket if improper installation is achieved. The CPU has notches in the sides of the PCB that correspond with small protrusions in the socket. This should prevent the CPU from dropping onto the pins properly if the CPU is not oriented correctly.

 

[sullyy]

So I would definitely notice after I dropped it or as I clamped the lever down if I had done that incorrectly?

Edit: I went and checked and it looks like the triangles matching up is for orienting it correctly so I doubt the issue is that I screwed up placing the CPU in both motherboards in the same way. So should I consider trying to get another CPU to test soon or a different PSU or RAM? (I have two sticks of RAM that came together and I've been trying both but I don't know if it's likely if one's broken for both to be broken)

 

[Ketchup]

Well, I guess there goes the refresh theory. You might want to return the CPU and get a 'first gen' Haswell. Those are still excellent chips though.

I just feel bad for helping you go down the wrong path.

 

[sullyy]

Oh definitely don't feel bad about this, I'd be totally lost without this help so I'm just grateful you're all still here. Also I'm not sure what you mean by the refresh theory, I was testing a different motherboard to see if the first one was defective, I never got to test a non-Haswell Refresh CPU so I think that's my next step.

 

[Ketchup]

Sure sullyy here you go: Haswell had a refresh recently, with better thermal performance and a slight clock speed bump. A new chipset was introduced as well. Some of them overclock better too. These are dubbed "Haswell Refresh."

If you want to do some reading:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7963/...eview-core-i7-4790-i5-4690-and-i3-4360-tested

Now, you have a couple ways you can go here:
1. Get a first-gen Haswell, which will be compatible with your board.
2. Upgrade your board to the latest generation, Z97, which will support your CPU out of the box. This one seems comparable to what you have:
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5101#ov

 

[crashtech]

We still don't know if the Refresh CPU is actually the problem. I'm waiting for a documented case so I can try to duplicate it. The core steppings are all the same; so far the evidence is not probative that any Haswell may fail to boot in any 8 or 9 series board due to incompatibility. If the OP wants to do me and others who are curious a favor, he might buy a "first-gen" Haswell like the G1820 for testing. Unfortunately, it seems like Microcenter, while having great prices, has a limited selection. I don't think they offer the G1820 any longer.

 

[Ketchup]

We still don't know if the Refresh CPU is actually the problem. I'm waiting for a documented case so I can try to duplicate it. The core steppings are all the same; so far the evidence is not probative that any Haswell may fail to boot in any 8 or 9 series board due to incompatibility. If the OP wants to do me and others who are curious a favor, he might buy a "first-gen" Haswell like the G1820 for testing. Unfortunately, it seems like Microcenter, while having great prices, has a limited selection. I don't think they offer the G1820 any longer.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you would be a better tester than a first-time system builder.

Besides that, what else do you think it could be? I think we are both pretty sure that he didn't bend any pins, and his test setup seems to rule out any shorting that may have taken place inside the case.

At this point, I want our OP to get something that will work, and a setup that has been documented to work together would be the best way to do that.

 

[crashtech]

There's no sure bet in any scenario. With a first-time builder, all bets are off. Getting the second CPU is cheaper than getting the second motherboard. Though at this point if there is actually a defective component, the odds favor the motherboard or PSU.