External test boot on off loop

[sullyy]

I'm doing an external test boot as per this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls but when I turn on the motherboard after plugging in the PSU it turns on for about 2 seconds with the M BIOS light turning on and the fans running then it shuts off suddenly also for about 2 seconds. Then it turns back on though with the B BIOS light turning on then off. It keeps going like this on and off until I turn of the PSU. I tried connecting a monitor to see if anything happened on it but it showed no signal. I have a gigabyte z87x-ud3h motherboard, and EVGA supernova nex650G PSU.

 

[Fardringle]

What CPU and RAM are you using? And do you have a hard drive or anything else connected to the motherboard during this test?

 

[chusteczka]

I second the question if a system drive is attached. I also question if the PSU power connections are fully inserted into the motherboard. 24pin main, 8pin cpu, 6pin video, each fully inserted.

Does the bios post successfully? It seems not by the description.
Are you able to get into the bios? Does the bios recognize the installed memory?

Is the cpu heatsink properly attached? Maybe the system is shutting down due to high cpu temp? Was thermal paste used between the cpu and heatsink?

If the bios is not posting, then something is wrong with hardware detection. Double-check your setup. Maybe even pull it all apart and put it back together again. It can be easy to find the culprit when taking it apart and seeing something is not connected the way it should be.

 

[sullyy]

This is my first ever build, I don't know what bios posting means. I'm using an i5 4590 intel cpu and ballistix sport 4gbx2 RAM. I have an asus geforce gtx 760 video card though I tried booting without the video card attached and the same thing happened so I don't think that's the issue. I also have a hyper 212 evo cpu fan. Nothing else is attached to the motherboard.

I did have issues with the thermal paste, I decided I had used too much when I first put it on so I wiped it off with a microfiber cloth and 70% isopropyl alcohol (don't have 90%) and redid it, then the first time I put the heatsink on I saw some thermal paste come off the side so redid it again, this time I checked and there is a tiny bit coming out on the side though it doesn't get close to spilling onto the motherboard, I didn't want to redo it again because the first time redoing it had left some thermal past kind of stuck on the underside of the heatsink because there are grooves, I couldn't clean it off with alcohol.

I do have both the 24 pin MB and 8 pin CPU connection in (and had the 6 pin video connection in when I had the video card connected). Do you think I should redo the heatsink again? I also have the stock heatsink that I think my build would be okay using, should I try using that? I'm just worried that the heatsink will be worse and worse with residual paste if I keep taking it off. Though of course I'd prefer to have to replace that to replacing the motherboard.

 

[chusteczka]

BIOS Post
Ok, no worries. BIOS Post means "Power On Self Test". This is the stage where the bios identifies the physical components attached to the motherboard and determines how they will communicate with each other.

I have a feeling that your bios is not posting, meaning that your motherboard does not recognize all the physical components attached to it.

Graphics
That processor has graphics. If the motherboard has onboard graphics, seen by the video connections on the rear panel, then it would be best for now to test the setup with the onboard graphics. You can add your video card later after you know everything else is working well.

Hard Drive
Connect a hard drive to the motherboard. I forget right now if one is specifically necessary for the bios to post but I think it might be.

Heatsink
Or, there may possibly be problems with the cpu heatsink and thermal paste causing an overtemp situation but I do not think so. I expect you do not need to remove your heatsink again. By the third time, you are near certain to have positioned it correctly through practice.

Thermal paste squeezing out the sides is acceptable. It shows too much paste was used but the compression holding the heatsink against the CPU squeezes out the excess. Sure, maybe the thermal paste layer is too thick but it can be accepted. You did well with cleaning. The main purpose of the alcohol is to remove any grease or oil from your fingers. When reapplying like this, the cpu and heatsink do not need to be perfectly cleaned with alcohol since the thermal paste remains good but it helps to remove as much as possible before a fresh application.

Applying Thermal Paste
You will see in the image below numerous examples of thermal paste applications. I added brief notes where useful so you can get an idea.

Here is a website that provides a good method with quick explanation.
Best way to apply thermal grease to CPU correctly

Google - how to apply thermal paste to cpu

It can be difficult putting your first build together on your own. You are doing well. Hang in there, think each step through carefully, and ask when help is needed.

Make sure to keep yourself grounded to prevent any static electricity from potentially damaging components. I like to make sure that I touch the case to discharge any built up energy before touching any electric components. Then I like to keep my forearm pressed against the case to stay grounded. Be careful on carpet with socks or slippers, but this is mostly an issue in the cold, dry winter months.


EDIT:
Can you provide your motherboard; make and model?

 

[sullyy]

Gigabyte z87x-ud3h motherboard and okay I'm in the process of putting it back together because I figured as I wait I might as well try redoing the whole external build. I'll connect my hdd after I've put it back together, also will I need a monitor connected to check this?

 

[sullyy]

It still didn't work after I redid everything, I've connected the hdd but nothing seems to have changed. Also I just want to double check something, I have the 24 pin motherboard connector in and for the cpu I have one that says CPU1 on it that goes to two 4 pin connectors, there is nowhere to put it that says CPU on the motherboard but after looking in the manual I put it in the ATX 24v 2x4 slot which they fit in, I think that's right but wanted to double check. (there's nothing labeled similar to ATX for the PSU cables, only VGA which I used for the video card, SATA which I usedd for the hdd, and PERIF, presumably for peripherals.

 

[chusteczka]

I see that you provided the motherboard in your first post, sorry about that. Here is your equipment.

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 Haswell Quad-Core 3.3GHz LGA 1150 84W
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-UD3H LGA 1150
RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3
PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650 G 80 PLUS GOLD

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4481
Motherboard Manual

You have some good equipment. For several of those items, Newegg lists having a newer version of the item available. Have you been using this equipment for a while and possibly upgrading the processor? Or is it brand new for you?

You mentioned the M_BIOS light flashing and then the B_BIOS light flashing. From the manual, page 22, those are two different bios's. 'M' being "Main", 'B' being "Backup". That tells me the motherboard is trying to post twice, once with each bios, and failing both times.

According to the Motherboard CPU Support List, that i5-4590 Haswell Refresh cpu is supported since bios version F9, released in March 2014. While Newegg lists this motherboard as having a newer version available. This tells me your motherboard may be older than March 2014.

I have a feeling your bios, both of them, are an older version unable to support your new Haswell Refresh cpu. I suspect you need to update the motherboard bios. Are you able to tell what bios version is installed?

You may need a non-Haswell Intel Socket 1150 cpu to update the bios. I am not sure since my experience is with AMD systems.

The motherboard has a Debug LED next to the 24pin PSU connector. Is that providing a useful error debug code?


Regarding your question if you connected the two 4pin cpu connectors from the PSU properly into the CPU power connectors on the motherboard, Yes, it sounds like you did that properly.

 

[sullyy]

For curiosities sake which items have newer versions? I'd rather not switch stuff now but I'd like to know. As far as my parts go everything is brand new. The debug LED if that's what the LED with 2 number lights is, is flashing every time it starts to turn on. It's too fast to read but I took a video and the left one does nothing while the right one seems to be making something that most resembles a backwards G. Every line around the outside lights up except the upper left one. I don't know how to check what version BIOS I have, sorry, but I'll keep looking to see if it's on the box or there's other documentation, I checked the manual I have here but it doesn't seem to say. Also thanks so much for going through all of this effort already I really appreciate it.

 

[chusteczka]

The motherboard and PSU are both out of stock with a newer version available at Newegg.com. This doesn't mean you need to purchase new. Your components are perfectly fine and of excellent quality. Also, the link for the memory that I clicked on had the same notice, until I realized you did not specify a speed or model for the memory and I had most likely clicked the wrong link. But having three items pop up with that notice gave me the impression you may be upgrading the cpu. If so, put the non-Haswell Refresh cpu back in to update the bios.

When there is a problem, the debug LED will run through all the number values, testing each one at a time. If it is not landing on a final value then it will not help. The video you took is a lot of work but of little use.

When the computer is first started, a non-UEFI bios will show the initial memory check sequence with white letters on a black command line/screen background. At the top is typically the bios version.

A UEFI bios will initially show a screen with nice graphics for a moment displaying the bios version. You will not find the bios version on the box or in the manual.

Pressing the <F9> key during startup will show System Information, which may include the bios version.

Page 22 of the manual describes a bios_switch in the upper right corner. It may help to switch the bios and see if the backup bios will allow a successful POST.

To update the bios, you will need to download the bios from the gigabyte support site. I provided the link specifically for your motherboard in my previous post. You will use the Q-Flash utility within the bios to update the bios. You may read about it in the manual, chapter 2 Bios Setup and Chapter 5 Bios Update Utilities. You would copy the new bios to a USB flash drive and then connect that to the motherboard when starting.

See if you can enter the bios by pressing the <Delete> key as the computer starts.

You are welcome for the help. I am having a sleepless night anyway and this is helping tire me out.


EDIT:
It is possible you will be unable to successfully enter the bios to update it without a supported cpu. You may need to either borrow a non-Haswell Refresh cpu, Socket 1150, from a friend or take the motherboard to a shop or friend and have them use one of their prior version cpu's to update your bios for you. If you do take your board somewhere to them update your bios, be sure to remove your cpu first and leave it at home. You do not want an unscrupulous shop stealing your new cpu and replacing it with another of less value.

 

[sullyy]

Hmm okay. I didn't plug the monitor back in when I set this test boot back up but I just plugged it in and it still doesn't receive a signal at all when I try to turn the motherboard on. I also sadly don't think I have any friends with spare CPUs laying around, but I'm wondering, if I don't want to pay for a store to do this is there any reason I couldn't buy one that is compatible, use it to update the BIOS, then return it the same day? And if I can do that what am I looking for for it to be compatible? A sockett 1150 cpu that is not "Haswell Refresh?" Would those generally be older intel CPUs?

 

[chusteczka]

Wait until day when others arrive having more experience with Intel. This is a known issue and I am not the best for helping with it since my experience is almost solely with AMD systems.

But purchasing and returning would not work. I believe processors have a non-return policy or similar. Processors have solid packaging with seals that display tampering. They would not be able to resell an opened box.

The best option is to find someone in the area, maybe through Craigslist or similar. Gigabyte provides a list of supported cpu's. I expect that any supported by older bios versions would work.

Newegg has new Intel Celeron G1840 for $50.
Ebay has a used Intel Celeron G1820 for $32.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Celeron-G1820-LGA-1150-2-7GHz-Dual-Core-CPU-Processor-/181414917556

$32 might be cheaper than GeekSquad to update the bios. And then you could resell the cpu on eBay the next day.


EDIT:
Google - site:ebay.com intel (celeron | pentium | i3) +haswell -refresh lga 1150

 

[sullyy]

Yeah I just checked and my nearby microcenter has the Intel Celeron G1820 for only $25 so I might just get that and use it to update the BIOS. Though before I'd decide to do that I want to double check, you're fairly sure that the outdated BIOS is what the problem is here?

 

[sullyy]

Also will that CPU definitely be compatible? It looks like it to me but it also had looked like my i5 4590 would be so I'm not sure if I'd miss something.

 

[chusteczka]

That is my guess but I do not know for certain. I have no first-hand experience with Intel systems, since the Pentium 4 days 10 years ago. Let others with better experience give their thoughts before purchasing anything.

Paging Intel BIOS Experts ...

 

[VirtualLarry]

It does seem like, absent a defective mobo, that the problem is a BIOS incompatibility with the Haswell-refresh CPUs. If you have a MC nearby, you could pay them to update the BIOS, or at least POST-test the board with whatever CPU they have around that's not Haswell-Refresh.

 

[chusteczka]

It appears that previous discussion of whether an older Haswell is needed to flash (update) the bios was inconclusive. It is possible your motherboard may be defective.

Here is a relevant post.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36493025&postcount=126

Here is a relevant thread.
CPU LED is red on Asus Z97

 

[crashtech]

To my knowledge, there have not been any conclusive cases of Haswell CPUs failing to boot in 8-series boards such as the OPs. The only problem I have observed is the CPU not being properly identified, but it works well enough to flash the BIOS. Sometimes the BIOS revision is printed on a sticker on the box, if it says F9 we can rule any problem with the BIOS out immediately.

 

[sullyy]

Hmm well I have an intel celeron G1840 here (microcenter said they can't flash the BIOS so I'll have to if that's the issue) In about an hour I'll have time to put the new CPU in and see if the BIOS will post. If it does I"ll flash the BIOS though I'll probably need some help to figure out exactly what's involved there

 

[sullyy]

Also I see nothing about the BIOS revision on the box, the only relevant thing I see is "CPU Support: 4th generation Intel Core processors"

 

[chusteczka]

Sullyy, are you able to see System Information by pressing the <F9> key when starting?

Are you able to get into the bios by pressing the <Delete> key when starting?

 

[Ketchup]

Hello sullyy,

As crashtech stated, it seems that the latest boards are supporting the Haswell refresh CPUs just fine, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Your heatsink install sounds fine as well, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Your power connections sound correct, so I wouldn't worry about that either.

Now, I have read most of your posts, but not all, so forgive if I am listing things you have already mentioned/tried:

1. Make sure the CPU fan is plugged into CPU_FAN header, the 4-pin header, second from the top, just to the left of the memory slots.
2. Try the 'clear cmos' function. With the computer powered down, touch the 2 pins with a metal object for a couple seconds and remove. The pins should be right about the front panel connections.
3. Remember to keep it simple for the first boot: no video card, one stick of RAM, no video or other cards, no drives connected, no USB. Just connect a monitor to the onboard graphics, and make sure the monitor it set to receive the type of connection you are using.

If you boot the computer (using the motherboard power button) and see any different activity, please let us know. If not, you will probably need to RMA the board, through the seller if available, through Gigabyte if that does not work. They may also suggest some other things to look at which we have missed.

Good luck!

 

[sullyy]

Chust I haven't been booting with a keyboard attached, the monitor is still showing no signal so I assumed that I wouldn't be able to do anything with a keyboard.

The CPU fan is connected there. I didn't mention it but I've tried the clear CMOS button that's on this motherboard and I think I had separately tried just touching the clear cmos pins. And for keeping it simple I was doing that though I took out the second stick of RAM and tried again but it didn't change.

Given this would it be a waste of time for me to try with the different CPU I got? Microcenter employees told me (and I checked online) that I'd be able to return the cpu after use, but if it's definitely not a cpu issue I'd rather not risk damaging it.

Lastly is there a reason for me to switch what motherboard I get? I was going off this list for the motherboard - http://www.tonymacx86.com/437-building-customac-buyer-s-guide-july-2014.html#motherboards because I would like to attempt to dual boot with OS X at some point. I just went with the best looking motherboard on that list that fit my budget, I don't think there's a reason to switch the model if this was just an issue of this mobo was defective. But I'd like a second opinion.

 

[sullyy]

Also I assume I don't need to stay super strictly to that list for OS X to work but I'd like to try because when looking into OS X compatibility it looked like it could be randomly very picky and I want to give myself the least trouble that I can.

 

[crashtech]

A photo of your setup might prove useful. Also try 1 stick of RAM at a time, once in each slot to verify there are no dead slots. The machine only needs a CPU, a stick of RAM and a video cable to boot, nothing else need be connected to verify functionality at this point. Many times I have been fooled by monitors that don't properly auto-switch between inputs, I do not think this is your problem but verify it anyway. Also verify the ends (pins) of your cable have no damage.