Extending a network using a different SSID

[Sumotku]

I'm wondering if it's possible to connect a second router, wirelessly, to an existing network, assign it a different SSID and give it a separate password. This seems to me not to resemble extending a network but creating a different network, similar to a router offering a guest network, which this particularly unit doesn't. How could I manage this?

 

[MrWizzard]

I'm wondering if it's possible to connect a second router, wirelessly, to an existing network, assign it a different SSID and give it a separate password. This seems to me not to resemble extending a network but creating a different network, similar to a router offering a guest network, which this particularly unit doesn't. How could I manage this?

Im not 100% sure of your question...(but if we ignore possible wireless congestion and assuming your current router does not do guest network)

It seems like you would want to use a bridge and then connect that bridge to a router that could do its own rules/routing and also be anther wireless router(SSID). Or if you just want another SSID get a WAP.

 

[Sumotku]

I'm after:
2 separate routers/2 separate networks/2 separate passwords (especially important). I can configure the second router down the line as an WAP, correct?

 

[MrWizzard]

I'm after:
2 separate routers/2 separate networks/2 separate passwords (especially important). I can configure the second router down the line as an WAP, correct?

Are you asking if, years down the road, you can turn the 2nd router/WAP into just a WAP?

If so yes, some routers let you turn them into just a WAP (turn on and off the routing capability). Just make sure you get one that has the option.

 

[Sumotku]

Not years, seconds : )

I need to extend a network but give it it's own parameters to isolate it from the primary network.

 

[PlastikSpork]

I'm wondering if it's possible to connect a second router, wirelessly, to an existing network, assign it a different SSID and give it a separate password. This seems to me not to resemble extending a network but creating a different network, similar to a router offering a guest network, which this particularly unit doesn't. How could I manage this?

Yes this is possible, only if you install aftermarket firmware onto your second router (the router that you want to extend your network with). I have done this with DD-WRT http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index

Look up the the router you are trying to use on dd-wrt.com to get the directions and appropriate firmware. Once you have DD-WRT installed on your router follow these directions. Hope this helps.

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge

 

[imagoon]

Not years, seconds : )

I need to extend a network but give it it's own parameters to isolate it from the primary network.

You would need far more hardware to make it secure. One AP to act like a client. A rules based firewall device to force all traffic to go to the internet router IP and possibly providing DHCP and DNS proxy. Another AP configured as a guest network.

If you remove the firewall, the "guest network" would have full access to the other network and most cheap routers provide you no way to block this because all they do is NAT.

 

[Fardringle]

The easiest way to do this is to get a wireless router like the Netgear WNDR3700 that allows you to have a regular wireless network as well as a separate "guest" network (with its own SSID and password) that can access the Internet but nothing else. Or just use any router that supports DD-WRT and do the same thing.

 

[Sumotku]

Great information, thanks everyone!

Imagoon, wouldn't simply assigning the AP a different subnet effectively lock it out from the primary routers devices?

Security across devices is a secondary concern, securing the network with a different WPA2 key is the primary one.

 

[imagoon]

Great information, thanks everyone!

Imagoon, wouldn't simply assigning the AP a different subnet effectively lock it out from the primary routers devices?

Security across devices is a secondary concern, securing the network with a different WPA2 key is the primary one.

Nope. NAT would route those addresses the same way it does for the internet. You would need something in the way to isolate it or you would not be able to "extend" off existing wireless.

Example:

network 10.1.1.0/24
guest 192.168.1.0/24

Guest [192.168.1.5] requests 10.1.1.17: 192.168.1.5 -> 192.168.1.1 -> [NAT] 10.1.1.2 -> 10.1.1.17; reply 10.1.1.17 -> 10.1.1.2 -> [NAT] 192.168.1.1 -> 192.168.1.5

--edit--
Fardringles approach is a better one. Do the guest at the router and extend that.

 

[Sumotku]

Unfortunately the hardware is bought, it's for a client. The good news is the second router is on the DD-WRT list.

 

[jumpncrash]

honestly I think you guys are overthinking this.

Just run a cable from your first router to your second, have DHCP disabled on teh second router and set it to an IP that is within the first network's subnet and is not within your DHCP range and bingo, extended wireless. That's what I have going at home and it works just fine.

 

[JackMDS]

@Sumotku

If connected Wirelessly it have to be connected with the same SSID.

If you have special Dual Radios Bridge,e or you create one by using at the receiving end two Wireless Routers connected between them with short crossover cable you can assign the second radio(Router) a different SSID.

 

[Sumotku]

@Jack, thanks for the assistance. It would appear with Plasticspork's suggestion it is possible to use a separate SSID with a wireless bridge and DD-WRT. I will give it a go tomorrow.

 

[Sumotku]

@jumpncrash, I've done this successfully myself. This needs to be wireless though.

 

[PlastikSpork]

@Jack, thanks for the assistance. It would appear with Plasticspork's suggestion it is possible to use a separate SSID with a wireless bridge and DD-WRT. I will give it a go tomorrow.

Yes you are correct, you are able to use separate SSID's and channels for each router. Also, if you change the subnet mask of the second router you should be able to isolate that network from yours.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The DD-WRT builds for Atheros hardware have something like this. You configure the wireless security and SSID to repeat the primary wireless network, and then you configure a "virtual AP", with a second SSID, and different wireless security.

I've used that feature to "piggy-back" on someone else's wireless network
(with permission), yet have my own WLAN for my own devices.

 

[Sumotku]

I'm not done with this, I plan to try it for my own use but I talked the client out of it. Primarily on account of reading:

"Troubleshooting

Encryption type and key must be the same on both the primary and secondary router. The first thing to do when running into problems is to remove all encryption and see if the routers can connect. This is the single most common reason that bridged routers don't work."

It seems the bridged network cannot have it's own encryption key.

 

[JackMDS]

Follow the advice that I gave you before. I.e, building a double radio extension.

It cost the price of an additional Wireless Router but then the SSID encryption etc. is independent from the main system and still every thing is on the same network.

I have a main Buffalo High power as a main. A second Buffalo set in a second house (about 60" away) as a Wireless Bridge.

Basically it looks like your OP's Diagram only that a Linksys is connected via cable to one of the Bridge's port regular port.

If you wish to separate the Networks connect the cable form the secondary to the Wireless WAN port.

The make sure that it easy to configure and fully compatible everything is flashed with DD-WRT.

If you want a better separation of the guest network instead of using a simple Wireless Router like the WRT54G get for few $$ more one of the more modern Router of the E serious (E3000 etc.) that allow to specifically configure and separate Guest accounts.

 

[MtnMan]

Easiest way to extend the wireless in your house is a Cisco RE1000. Sets up in a minute and extended wireless to the far end of the house so wife can stream NetFlix to her Kindle Fire in bed.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm not done with this, I plan to try it for my own use but I talked the client out of it. Primarily on account of reading:

"Troubleshooting

Encryption type and key must be the same on both the primary and secondary router. The first thing to do when running into problems is to remove all encryption and see if the routers can connect. This is the single most common reason that bridged routers don't work."

It seems the bridged network cannot have it's own encryption key.

Not on Broadcom hardware, but Atheros DD-WRT hardware can do what I posted.

 

[MtnMan]

And since the SSID identifies the network, a different SSID is a different network.

Devices will associate with different AP that are on the same network, and have the same SSID seamless as you move from location to location.

 

[amdskip]

I have this same setup in place between a school and a church office. It has worked flawlessly since I set it up using ddwrt.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Not on Broadcom hardware, but Atheros DD-WRT hardware can do what I posted.

Yes, I can do this on a RT-N13U B1 (Ralink chip).

 

[Sumotku]

The hardware the client owns is all Broadcom.