Extend leverage on lug wrench idea..good or bad

[BW86]

Don't use torque wrenches to break stuff free!

You need leverage? This is leverage.

Yes, we broke a breaker bar.

Twice.

rofl, I used a bar like that to break my axle bolt free

 

[0roo0roo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheater_bar
hah wikipedia...

 

[T2urtle]

LOL when people make those cheater bars like jlee,

saw a lot of youtube videos with crazy pipes like that. always wondered if they buy it or have it laying around.

My IR 2135ti takes off MOST of things i've encountered and i'm forever grateful for it

not letting retards work on my car who overtighten wheels also is a great help, breaker bar is always in the trunk

 

[hanoverphist]

This

From what I know it's called a cheater bar

or breaker bar. i have a piece of 2" conduit in the back of my truck for this, but i rarely have to use it. and with the star lug wrenches, you put a foot on the closer leg, pipe on the far one and then turn. usually doing this i dont even need a breaker (but im huge). and to the comment about the pointy end of the OEM jack handle, it comes in very handy getting wheel covers/ caps off.

 

[0roo0roo]

true..hubcaps. but the car had stock rims lol

 

[ElFenix]

i just don't see how toyota really thinks that tiny short wrench they give you in the trunk would work. you'd literally have to hammer it with something else on a stubborn nut. maybe they think you'd smack it with the tire jack

i think they give you the short lug wrench to prevent over tightening when putting on the spare. a 200 lb man standing 6 inches from the nut is 100 ft-lbs of force. spec on my car is 90 ft-lbs.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Don't use torque wrenches to break stuff free!

You need leverage? This is leverage.

Yes, we broke a breaker bar.

Twice.

Used one of those on a stuck brake caliper bolt. Slowly rotated the pipe and off came the head of the bolt... oops. No worries, we will just drill out the bolt and re-tap the hole. Oh, we drilled it in crooked. Okay, you need a new caliper.

 

[bmaverick]

Hey, once that nut is off, before you reapply it to the lug studs, apply a almost thin coat of anti-seize or never-seize to each one. So, the next time would only be half as hard to get them off by hand. :sneaky:

 

[0roo0roo]

anti seize... hm
wonder why that isn't standard procedure, or is there a reason...

 

[IcePickFreak]

Don't use torque wrenches to break stuff free!

You need leverage? This is leverage.

Yes, we broke a breaker bar.

Twice.

You're applying more torque than the engine does with a bar that long lol.

 

[Bignate603]

anti seize... hm
wonder why that isn't standard procedure, or is there a reason...

Because they're cheap?

I had two lug nuts on one rear wheel of an old cherokee I had just bought that wouldn't come off when I was trying to get a new tire. I finally gave up and took it to a shop. They tried it by hand with a normal lug nut wrench, tried an impact wrench, then a breaker with an 8 foot cheater while hitting it with a torch. Nothing moved, couldn't get it off. They finally gave up and opened up the rear diff to disconnect the C-clip in the axle and pulled the whole axle shaft out so they could get a grinder to the back of the studs. After grinding off the studs they took a big spike and a sledge hammer to bust the lug nuts and the remaining part of the stud out through the front of the wheel.

Apparently the steel lug nuts electrolytically bonded to the aluminium wheel and they didn't want to let go. If you've got aluminum wheels and live in place where they salt the roads do yourself a favor and loosen and retighten the lug nuts at least once a year to keep it from bonding.

 

[Howard]

Torque specs are provided with the caveat that the lug nut/wheel mating faces are free of any lubricant. So, if you antiseize the threads, you MUST ensure that none of it gets on the wheel or lug nut.

 

[0roo0roo]

sounds like an extra headache. guess i'll stick with cheater bar.

 

[Pacfanweb]

anti seize... hm
wonder why that isn't standard procedure, or is there a reason...

Because the anti-seize will screw up your torque reading. Plus, it's generally not the lack of lubricant that causes lug nut threads to fail....they just DO, after awhile.


Most people don't seem to realize this: There are certain fasteners that are designed to be expendable on cars. Lug nuts and oil plugs are the two most common.

Why? Because you'd rather have the threads on the lug nut or the oil plug fail.

Two different reasons, though: Oil pan drain plug, you want it to fail more easily, because oil pans are expensive and hard to replace. Plugs are not.

Lug nuts fail easily because you'd rather replace a nut than the stud. Plus, it's still usually tight when the threads fail.
Unfortunately for lug nuts, a lot of times when they fail, they take the stud with them....but at least it's tight until you need to remove it again.

If you are paying attention, you can tell if the nut is failing/has failed as you thread it on by hand.......most times when people bitch about some lube monkey who "cross-threaded my lug nut", it's really that the nut had failed and they just gunned it on anyway.
If you run it up there by hand a bit first, you can tell if the threads are failing. Then you take it off and get a new nut, problem solved/avoided.
Think about it: The studs are hardened...the lug nuts are not.

I can't tell you how many lug nuts and oil plugs I've seen that came off just fine, and when I put them back on, the threads were destroyed and felt as though they were cross-threading, but that isn't what happened.....and I've also seen many that started to go on okay, but the threads came apart as I gunned it the rest of the way on.....not the fault of anyone, just happens.

 

[HappyPuppy]

You kiddies crack me up!

 

[jlee]

Because the anti-seize will screw up your torque reading.

Drop the torque by 30% or so and call it good. It helps to be able to take things apart again.

I spent all day working on a friend's Miata because it had rusted to shit. Should've taken four hours tops...next time, it'll come apart. Why? Because we anti-seized practically everything...

 

[HappyPuppy]

The use of anti seize compound when not called for in the factory manual lessens rotational torque and increases longitudinal stress. If your manual does not call for anti seize compound, then don't use it.

 

[jlee]

The use of anti seize compound when not called for in the factory manual lessens rotational torque and increases longitudinal stress. If your manual does not call for anti seize compound, then don't use it.

That's all fine and good if you never want to take anything apart. Ever. Again.

<- Salt state.

 

[IcePickFreak]

I can't tell you how many lug nuts and oil plugs I've seen that came off just fine, and when I put them back on, the threads were destroyed and felt as though they were cross-threading, but that isn't what happened.....and I've also seen many that started to go on okay, but the threads came apart as I gunned it the rest of the way on.....not the fault of anyone, just happens.

Lugs nuts questionably, but oil plug? I hope you're not using a pneumatic wrench, much less an impact on oil plugs. And if you're using one on lug nuts, getting them off easy isn't a big concern of yours either. Lug torque specs aren't really that tight, I don't see the big problem with just using a torque wrench and doing it right. Hammering them on with an impact is going to be the biggest contributing factor to stretching and killing the threads.

 

[0roo0roo]

i figured there was more reasons why its not generally done...there almost aways are.
i'll stick to anti seizing only my spark plugs only
i just don't like getting greasy for no reason, the stuff will get on your hands sooner or later.

 

[Throckmorton]

I would only do it with a short headed wrench, not an X like that one. With the X you're not only twisting the nut but also bending the lug downward.

 

[Painman]

I would only do it with a short headed wrench, not an X like that one. With the X you're not only twisting the nut but also bending the lug downward.

This. Lots of lateral force gets applied if your lug breaker has a long shank between the business end and the point of leverage. Those 4-ways are also weakest at their point of leverage - they're held together by a weld.

I typically just use my stock lug wrench, but any time the car gets a service involving a wheel removal I just pop the lug nuts in the driveway and redo them. This way, I know I can pop 'em myself on the side of the road and don't have to ride around with crazy contraptions in the trunk/cargo bay.

It also doesn't hurt, or take much time, to just go through and crack/retighten all your lugs sometime in April/May after the rusty season is over.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Lugs nuts questionably, but oil plug? I hope you're not using a pneumatic wrench, much less an impact on oil plugs. And if you're using one on lug nuts, getting them off easy isn't a big concern of yours either. Lug torque specs aren't really that tight, I don't see the big problem with just using a torque wrench and doing it right. Hammering them on with an impact is going to be the biggest contributing factor to stretching and killing the threads.

Torque sticks. That's what shops use on their impact guns. They don't have time to be breaking out the torque wrench for every car, and honestly, it's not that critical. And you certainly might have trouble getting a lug nut off that had the threads come apart and got gunned on, anyway. I don't care how big an impact wrench you have.

No, I never used an impact on an oil plug. Those threads come apart by themselves when using just a regular box wrench. They were just another example of "expendable" threads.

 

[Pulsar]

You need to kick the ass of the tire shop. Wait untill they strip one of the heads off a lug that was overtightened and then want to charge YOU extra to get it off.

Better idea. But yourself a $20 torque wrench from Harbor Frieght and check the lugs at random when they work on your tires. If they're over torque, walk right back up front and tell them to do it right.

It's the difference between static and dynamic torque (and if they even set their impact guns for a specific torque). Pay attention to whether they bother changing anything between cars. If not, they're using the same amount of torque to put a F-250 super-duty duelly tire on as they are a Fiesta sub compact. Bad.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

You need to kick the ass of the tire shop. Wait untill they strip one of the heads off a lug that was overtightened and then want to charge YOU extra to get it off.

Better idea. But yourself a $20 torque wrench from Harbor Frieght and check the lugs at random when they work on your tires. If they're over torque, walk right back up front and tell them to do it right.

It's the difference between static and dynamic torque (and if they even set their impact guns for a specific torque). Pay attention to whether they bother changing anything between cars. If not, they're using the same amount of torque to put a F-250 super-duty duelly tire on as they are a Fiesta sub compact. Bad.

The shop I take mine to might use the sticks to get the lug nuts on, but they always come by with a torque wrench for the final tightening.