Expert opinion fine-tuning homebuilt NAS/MediaCenter setup (green/performance/budget)

[reilos]

Hi there.

I'm want to build a multi-purpose NAS/MediaCenter.

It is going to be used to:
- Store pictures (thousends of them, RAW, JPEG, TIFF and other formats)
- Store music & stream to various clients
- Store HD (1080p) movies & preprocess (local, so on this system) & stream to (at least) 2 clients
- Process/convert/extract/encode/decode) movies in/from/to various formats (mostly x264, DTS, AC3, MPEG4, MKV) in batch jobs

Maybe some useful info:
- The OS will be Ubuntu Server
- I'll be using Plex Media Center for the video pre-processing and streaming.
- Pictures will be processed by 1 client. The connection and access time preferably needs to be near-local performance (yeah i know... quite the requirement).

I am on a tight budget. Important criteria for me are:
- Performance (not top-notch, but still fast enough to be up to the tasks listed above. these tasks should be run simultaniously, but there are tools to do some CPU & HDD load balancing for the several tasks i guess)
- Noise (has to be as quiet as possible for the money, since it will be on at night too)
- Durable (well...it's a NAS & media center, so it will be on 24/7 and the extracting/converting/pre-processing of video will give some heavy load for long periods of time). I now do this on my i7 laptop and i have to take serious measures to prevent over-heating.
- Stay current for the next 5 years
- Low power consumption

I have already done quite some homework to find some great value-for money components. This is what i came up with so far, which i think is a quite well performing, quiet setup for the money:

- Motherboard : ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP / Asus P8B75-V
- CPU : Intel i5 3570
- RAM : Vengeance LP Blue CML16GX3M4A1600C9 9-9-9-24 16GB (2x8GB)
- SSD : OCZ Vector 128GB (for the OS and procesing video files. Will be transferred to HDD array when finished)
- HDD : 3x Western Digital Red 3TB / Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB (= relabeled Hitachi 7K3000!) (put in a RAIDZ array)
- Case : Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey
- PSU : Corsair VX450W

This whole setup will cost me about 1050 euro (NL). This is quite a lot of money for me. Prices obtained mostly from http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/

What i need help for are 3 things:

- I'd like to cut costs as much as possible, while keeping as much performance, reliability and durability as posible. What components should i change, also in regards to my next question?

-I'd like this system to be as green as possible, while keeping as much performance, reliability and durability as posible. What components should i change, also in regards to my previous question?

- What PSU should i consider for this setup?

Aditional question: am i not missing any components?

PLEASE only reply if you KNOW what you are talking about and have experience in the options and advice you are giving. Just saying "I have MB 'X' and never had any problems with it", or "CPU 'X' is crap", or similar is not going to help me or others in any way.

Thank you very much, i really appreciate the help. This site has already helped me a lot with the tons of info it has!

 

[LurchFrinky]

Hi there.

I'm want to build a multi-purpose NAS/MediaCenter.

It is going to be used to:
- Store pictures (thousends of them, RAW, JPEG, TIFF and other formats)
- Store music & stream to various clients
- Store HD (1080p) movies & preprocess (local, so on this system) & stream to (at least) 2 clients
- Process/convert/extract/encode/decode) movies in/from/to various formats (mostly x264, DTS, AC3, MPEG4, MKV) in batch jobs
...

I think the bolded part is counter to everything else you want to accomplish.
Quite literally, if you take out this one line, you can go all the way down to Pentium or low AMD A series class cpu.
You will also be able to take out the SSD since you won't need it for the video files. If using Ubuntu and leaving it on 24/7, you can (probably should) put the OS on a memory stick. This doesn't work so well if you are surfing the internet or otherwise reading/writing to your /home directory, but for NAS work, the OS will be loaded into memory and all of the reading/writing will go to the storage drives anyway.

So, I would suggest you process on a more powerful machine and store it here if you want to cut costs and keep it as green as possible.

 

[reilos]

I think the bolded part is counter to everything else you want to accomplish.
Quite literally, if you take out this one line, you can go all the way down to Pentium or low AMD A series class cpu.
You will also be able to take out the SSD since you won't need it for the video files. If using Ubuntu and leaving it on 24/7, you can (probably should) put the OS on a memory stick. This doesn't work so well if you are surfing the internet or otherwise reading/writing to your /home directory, but for NAS work, the OS will be loaded into memory and all of the reading/writing will go to the storage drives anyway.

So, I would suggest you process on a more powerful machine and store it here if you want to cut costs and keep it as green as possible.

Thanks for the reply!

A few remarks though:
- Local transcoding of the movies for streaming is also very CPU intensive.
- The processing of very large movie files is not only CPU-intensive, but also very stressful on the (SSD) drive. For downloaded movies, it has to verify (par2), repair, unzip/unrar and then strip out the unwanted audio tracks and create a new (mkv) file. Of course i could settle for processing at night though...Hmm...you got me thinking...
- If i want to process on a more powerful machine, i need to buy that powerful machine too. :hmm: I do get your point though

For now, it just has to do all these tasks...
Thanks

 

[mfenn]

First off, since you're going to be running ZFS, you don't need to bother with moving files around during the various processing stages. Just make a small partition on the SSD (8GB is plenty) and attach that to your zpool as a log device. ZFS will send all writes to the log device and then dump them to the RAIDZ in sequential batches. Turning random writes into sequential writes is one of the core competencies of ZFS (or really, any log structured file system).

As for the parts:

- Mobo: Don't see the point in getting an SLI-capable tweakers board for this machine. Get an inexpensive B75/H77 board that has the SATA ports you need.
- CPU: Don't overclock a server, especially not one that is supposed to be low-power and quiet. Get a normal i5 like the 3470 or 3550 instead.
- HSF: Fine
- RAM: You say 16GB, but then also say 4x4GB? 16GB is plenty, 32 is probably overkill. Get the least expensive RAM from a good brand.
- SSD : Good, as long as you aren't paying an arm and a leg.
- HDD : Good
- Case: Good
- PSU: You don't need much. A quality ~400W like a Seasonic S12II will work great.

 

[reilos]

First off, since you're going to be running ZFS, you don't need to bother with moving files around during the various processing stages. Just make a small partition on the SSD (8GB is plenty) and attach that to your zpool as a log device. ZFS will send all writes to the log device and then dump them to the RAIDZ in sequential batches. Turning random writes into sequential writes is one of the core competencies of ZFS (or really, any log structured file system).

As for the parts:

- Mobo: Don't see the point in getting an SLI-capable tweakers board for this machine. Get an inexpensive B75/H77 board that has the SATA ports you need.
- CPU: Don't overclock a server, especially not one that is supposed to be low-power and quiet. Get a normal i5 like the 3470 or 3550 instead.
- HSF: Fine
- RAM: You say 16GB, but then also say 4x4GB? 16GB is plenty, 32 is probably overkill. Get the least expensive RAM from a good brand.
- SSD : Good, as long as you aren't paying an arm and a leg.
- HDD : Good
- Case: Good
- PSU: You don't need much. A quality ~400W like a Seasonic S12II will work great.

Thanks for your advise! Especially the ZFS part. I realise i have to do a bit more reading on the subject. Any place where i can find the best info on this particular subject/situation. It then seems like i realy don't need a 128GB drive. I wasn't planning on moving the files around between the various stages. I thought i'd just finish al stages on the SSD and move the finished product to the HDD array, but i'm open for suggestions.

CPU & Mobo: You are right. I'm looking into that. Then I could loose the CPU cooler too.

I don't understand your remark about the RAM part... 4x4=16 - I didn't mention 32GB.

I did some calculation on a few websites, and for durability and to be safe, and maybe also to be able to upgrade hardware (HDD's, CPU, graphics) in the future, a 520-550W PSU would probably be better, right? But there are just TOO many choices in PSU's... So many reviews, benchmarks, etc. I just need it to be stable, quiet and reliable for years. And cheap. And green. And... :whiste:

 

[reilos]

Changed mobo to ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP and CPU to Intel i5 3570, since i'm not going to OC
Aslo added the Corsair VX450W PSU. Got some great reviews and is actually over 500W. It should be Powerful, efficient and silent.

 

[XavierMace]

Where are the movies that you are processing coming from? If you've already got them on a HD or are downloading them, great. Other wise, you don't have an optical drive or tuner included in your build which are common items on HTPC builds.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for your advise! Especially the ZFS part. I realise i have to do a bit more reading on the subject. Any place where i can find the best info on this particular subject/situation. It then seems like i realy don't need a 128GB drive. I wasn't planning on moving the files around between the various stages. I thought i'd just finish al stages on the SSD and move the finished product to the HDD array, but i'm open for suggestions.

The bolded is a stage in and of itself, so yes you are moving files around between stages. As for more information about ZFS, the Sun^H^H^HOracle documentation is really quite good. I recommend browsing through the ZFS Administration Guide. Some stuff is obviously going to be Solaris-specific, but the vast majority applies to ZoL as well.

You're right that you probably don't need a 128GB drive in terms of raw capacity. A 64GB would be plenty for Linux and the log device. However, you should really get a 128GB drive anyway, and leave a good chunk of it unpartitioned. The reason for this is that, by its very nature, every write will go to the log device. You will want to overprovision your flash storage to extend it's lifetime.

I don't understand your remark about the RAM part... 4x4=16 - I didn't mention 32GB.

The standard DIMM size is 8GB nowadays, so I had a brain fart when I saw 4 DIMMs. Now that I notice that you're using 4GB DIMMS, I'd say that you should really switch to 8GB ones to leave room for upgrades.

I did some calculation on a few websites, and for durability and to be safe, and maybe also to be able to upgrade hardware (HDD's, CPU, graphics) in the future, a 520-550W PSU would probably be better, right? But there are just TOO many choices in PSU's... So many reviews, benchmarks, etc. I just need it to be stable, quiet and reliable for years. And cheap. And green. And... :whiste:

I don't see why a server needs graphics. The only significant power user in the system is the CPU, which can only use 69W for the CPU part. Drives are about 10W each, so 400W is more than you could ever hope to use.

 

[Cerb]

- CPU: Don't overclock a server, especially not one that is supposed to be low-power and quiet. Get a normal i5 like the 3470 or 3550 instead.

Or, i5-3330, for the IGP. It's nice to be able to plug in a monitor, if something isn't working right.

My thoughts, for the guts:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/305934/intel-core-i5-3330-boxed.html
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/323067/asus-p8b75-m-lx-plus.html
P.S. 4-slot variant: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/307792/asus-p8b75-m.html
ASrock: http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/313110/asrock-b75-pro3-m.html
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/323256/crucial-ballistix-sport-bls2c8g3d1609es2lx0ceu.html

 

[mfenn]

Or, i5-3330, for the IGP. It's nice to be able to plug in a monitor, if something isn't working right.
l

Getting a less expensive CPU is good because you're not going to be bottlenecked there. However, I want to point out that the 3470 and 3550 both have IGPs (in case there was any confusion).

 

[reilos]

Changed the setup a little bit. Could use some advice on the following choices:

- Motherboard : ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP // Asus P8B75-V
- HDD : 3x Western Digital Red 3TB // Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB (= relabeled Hitachi 7K3000!) (put in a RAIDZ array)

 

[mfenn]

I'd personally go with the ASRock H77 Pro4 because it generally costs less and has the H77 chipset features. As for the drives, whichever is cheaper; ZFS was designed to assume that the drive is lying to it at all times and so is really resilient to failures.

 

[reilos]

I'd personally go with the ASRock H77 Pro4 because it generally costs less and has the H77 chipset features. As for the drives, whichever is cheaper; ZFS was designed to assume that the drive is lying to it at all times and so is really resilient to failures.

What features are you referring to? Which features do i need for this setup that are in the hH77 chipset and not in the B75 chipset?

As for the HDD, which ones are better for 24/7 operation?

 

[smitbret]

The Reds are made for home NAS setups in a 24/7 type of environment. If budget and speed aren't an issue, just go with those.

 

[reilos]

The Reds are made for home NAS setups in a 24/7 type of environment. If budget and speed aren't an issue, just go with those.

Budget and speed are issues. But the price difference between those HDD's is only 10 euro, so for comparison of these two, budget it's not an issue. Speed & reliability (durability) however are.

 

[fffblackmage]

Is there really a benefit to the WD Red versus Green for 24/7 NAS use? Or is that just marketing?

I had three WD20EARS (Green) in a NAS, though one did start having bad sectors, which WD replaced with a WD20EARZ. Other than that, I haven't had any other issues so far from 2.5 years of 24/7 use.

 

[Cerb]

Is there really a benefit to the WD Red versus Green for 24/7 NAS use? Or is that just marketing?

Yes to both.

The Red will stop trying to correct anything at, I think 7 seconds. The Green will try for 2 minutes or more. The 24/7 duty cycle thing, though, is marketing. Those kinds of numbers are always pulled out of thin air.

 

[mfenn]

What features are you referring to? Which features do i need for this setup that are in the hH77 chipset and not in the B75 chipset?

Mostly more SATA 6Gb/s ports. Also, it's cheaper.

As for the HDD, which ones are better for 24/7 operation?

Any desktop HDD is going to be about the same as the others for 24/7. I would avoid 5400 RPM drives because they're slow.

 

[smitbret]

Slow is relative and depends on more than just RPM. My 5900 RPM Toshiba External averages between 110-120MB/S on USB 3.0. By comparison my 500GB, 7200 RPM Samsung never gets above 85MB/s at all. Platters and density make just as much differene.

My 2TB Barracudas, though, average about 145MB/s. Bursts over 200MB/s. First time I tached it out I was like, "You've got to be kidding me.". Not bad for abn $80 2TB drive.

 

[smitbret]

The Reds, supposedly, are also more vibration resistant, resulting in better longevity. For 10 Euro, I'd go with the marketing.

 

[mfenn]

Slow is relative and depends on more than just RPM. My 5900 RPM Toshiba External averages between 110-120MB/S on USB 3.0. By comparison my 500GB, 7200 RPM Samsung never gets above 85MB/s at all. Platters and density make just as much differene.

My 2TB Barracudas, though, average about 145MB/s. Bursts over 200MB/s. First time I tached it out I was like, "You've got to be kidding me.". Not bad for abn $80 2TB drive.

Two points:

1. I was speaking in the context of drives that the OP would be considering today. That means that they are all 1TB platters. More platters doesn't help the drive's speed.

2. You gotta remember that the OP is using ZFS. ZFS is really good at hiding most drive issues. About the only thing that will really hit the drives is massive random I/O. At that point you want the 7200RPM spindle speed (simple geometry).