Experienced builders and smart people chime in please, thanks.

[amonster]

I'm always looking for suggestions from all the great folks here. I am not a total newb, but I have only built about 6 systems so far. I am building this one for myself and cost is a consideration... but not much of one. I'm hoping for some intelligent feedback from all you veterans out there, I have tried to do as much research as I could first. I think its looking pretty good, but I wanted to get your thoughts about any potential bottlenecks and/or conflicts.

This machine will be doing several things, the first priority will be photoshop image-work, the second priority will be games. The most important thing to me is stability, with speed a CLOSE second (of course!) Also, I won't be overclocking.

Heres my setup (and a few questions):

Case: Thermaltake XASER III V2000A (I like all the cooling fans.. even though its loud)

Mobo: ASUS 800Mhz FSB Model# P4C800-E DELUXE Retail (seems to be fast and stable with latest BIOS)

RAM: CORSAIR MEMORY XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) 512MB(2 x 256MB) 2x(32MX64) PC-3200LLPT With Platinum - Silver Heat Spreader.Retail.
(I am thinking of getting 2 SETS of these (4 sticks), in order to have all 4 slots filled in the mobo and have 1 Gig of RAM (I think its faster with all 4 populated...?), unless you think I could use 2 gigs..in which case I would just switch to 4 512Mb sticks)

PSU: Antec 550W Power Supply For TRUE550 EPS12V (plenty of juice and high quality)

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz 512k 800MHz FSB | socket 478 w/ Hyper Threading Technology

Sound: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum (Model SB0240P)

Video: ATI SAPPHIRE RADEON 9800 PRO 256MB DVI/TV 8X AGP

Drives: (2X) Western Digital Raptor 36GB SATA WD360GD 10,000 RPM 8MB Hard Drive (these will be set up in a RAID 0 configuration)

Drives: (1X) WD WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 120GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD1200JB - (this will be mainly for storage and backup)

Optical Drives: Sony DVD-/+RW Recorder Drive Model DRU510A (I'm not really sure about this one... can't decide between one "do-it-all" drive like this one, or two seperate but equally good drives...?)

Mouse/Keyboard: Logitech Cordless MX Duo (Does anyone know whether cordless is quick enough for gaming??, might go with corded)

Well, thats what I'm thinking about right now, I will post my other questions after I get a few responses, just in case they are answered ahead of time. Thanks everyone!

Tony (you may also email me with any comments/suggestions at bigtony@charter.net)
Thanks!!

 

[Tab]

Sounds good, not sure about the ram but otherwise you've got it planned Dont worry about the Wireless Keyboard, it uses 2.4Ghz instead of 800Mhz like Logitech's older models.

 

[Electric Amish]

Why are you going to run RAID 0?

Are you prepared for an unrecoverable crash?

For the mouse I'd suggest the Logitech MX700 for cordless.

amish

 

[tokamak]

if it were me, i would ditch the 3.2 and go with the 3.0 p4. IMO 200 more megahertz is not worth $260.

 

[amonster]

The RAID 0 is simply because I'm told that the fastest drives are the Raptors... and since I'm shooting for as much performance as I can squeeze, RAID 0 will provide that boost over a single Raptor. (at least i thought). I have had 2 machines with RAID 0 for 3 and 4 years respectively, with no problems, although I am pretty strict with backing-up, because I know a RAID 0 crash means total loss.

 

[amonster]

I know what you mean about the cost... its something I am considering, maybe put that money into some 6.1 speakers!

 

[Sideswipe001]

From what I understand, most motherboards have a harder time running with all banks full. At least, you sometimes have to relax memory timings to make it fully stable. Even Anand's reviews of motherboards anymore have a section about the fastest they can run with all banks populated.

 

[amonster]

Well I will have to review that topic again it seems... I have heard a few conflicting views on it. I haven't been able to pin down a definitive answer for that one yet. I know that I need 2 sticks to enable the Dual-Channel aspect, but I cant figure whether 4 is better than 2 or not.

 

[IanthePez]

i would get two 512 mb sticks. That should be all you need.

 

[nick1985]

i always thought that having all your ram slots filled slows it down also...

 

[Electric Amish]

Originally posted by: amonster
The RAID 0 is simply because I'm told that the fastest drives are the Raptors... and since I'm shooting for as much performance as I can squeeze, RAID 0 will provide that boost over a single Raptor. (at least i thought). I have had 2 machines with RAID 0 for 3 and 4 years respectively, with no problems, although I am pretty strict with backing-up, because I know a RAID 0 crash means total loss.

As long as you're aware of the consequences. Some noobs really cry when their mp3 or movie collection gets nuked because it was on a RAID 0 system.

 

[amonster]

I understand Amsih, Im a big boy! (thanks for the warning of course though).

 

[amonster]

Anyone have an opinion about which optical drives are best? Or if I should go with 2 drives or just one (the Sony DRU510A) that does "everything"? Mostly the DVD would only be for burning storage, and the CD for mostly burning Audio.

Thanks!

 

[0roo0roo]

Case: Thermaltake XASER III V2000A (I like all the cooling fans.. even though its loud)

not if you buy a fan speed controller

i have a chieftec, internals are the same from what i rememeber. unless your system is truely a monster, the fans can be safety slowed a bit.

 

[amonster]

Well I am catching some heavy flak about the anandtech article concerning populating all 4 slots of my ASUS P4C-800 E Deluxe with RAM. I think (from the article on 27-July) that I want to fill all 4 slots with quality memory to get the best results. Many people are telling me that 4 slots full will slow the mobo.... some folks are also cautioning me NOT to use Corsair memory with this board, but the article talks about Corsair as being one of the best choices for this board. So I'm a little unsure about which way to go with RAM all around.... which brand? which slots? So far I'm leaning towards populating all 4 slots with 512 a piece and going with the full 2 Gig of RAM. Any further input would be appreciated.

Also, I am currently debating with some of the folks at Storagereview.com about whether to go with a RAID 0 (Raptors) setup, OR a Cheetah SCSI (15K.3) drive... anyone want to share their experiences about this question? I realize that it will likely be very fast either way, but if anyone has any really specific advice I'd appreciate it. (I already know about the reliablility issue with RAID, so I'm only talking about performance)

Thanks!

 

[tokamak]

i must say man, you are going ALL OUT on this system.

 

[ProviaFan]

The EPS12V power supply, AFAIK, has a 24 pin connector, designed for server and high end workstation boards. AFAIK, the board you have will use a 20 pin connector, so the PSU will not be compatible with that board w/o an adapter.

 

[Sabrewolf21]

I just put together a system which is 80% as fast as the one you are getting and cost me only 800 bucks. This is the first system I built on my own too.

Case- Thermaltake xaser 3 with 420w power supply
CPU- 2.4c
Motherboard- Asus p4p800
Ram- 1 Gig Geil Value Ram
Harddrive- Single Raptor
Graphics Card- Geforce4 ti4400 (salvaged from old comp)
DVD/CD- Salvaged from old comp

Total system cost- 800 bucks

And its one of the fastest system there is. I used to buy the fastest and newest stuff, but ive come to realize that its not worth paying double for a 10-20% performance increase. The 2.4c is so much a better value than the 3.2c that its rediculous. Same with geil value ram, it works perfectly and is half the cost of corsair low latency. And there is no reason for me to upgrade my video card right now considering I get 50+fps in all games of any resolution I want (probably more, I just built this computer and havent installed any games yet).

This computer has all the latest technology (hyper threading, dual channel ddr, fastest hard drive available) but because I didnt go for the best of the best I saved alot of money. If money isnt an object than your computer kicks ass because its a better version of mine. But for me, I am pretty happy what ive made with only 800 bucks.

 

[vike105]

Saberwolf21 - Did your purchase of the xaser III come with the power supply? If yes where did you purchase it?

 

[BullsOnParade]

Basically I'd reccomend that you go after quality with the bucks
you're spending rather than just getting stuff with big numbers.

1) Ditch the 3.2C for a 2.6C (~$200) $460 more for the 3.2 is just
ridiculous

2) Use that $400 and buy SCSI gear which will be more stable
and more reliably faster than the raptors in raid.

3) Drop the Antec for a PC Power and Cooling 400W silent PSU
PCP&C are the best regarded PSU makers around and their 400W
will be quite sufficient for your rig no matter what else you add to it.
Granted that the Antec's are supurb, I think that the PCP&C
supplies are even better.

dM

oh yeah and perhaps wait for the athlon 64's and P5 (Sept.)

 

[Actaeon]

Thermaltake makes some ugly cases.

Do yourself a favor and get something else. My friend just purchased a Lian-Li... but wow, thats such a nice case.

 

[Cosmic_Horror]

the system looks very nice but you are paying a premium for the top of the range stuff.

Will you notice a difference between a 2.8cGhz , 3.0CGhz chip and a 3.2ghz chip? if not could you use the money else where it would show a greater value for money.

depending on how much gaming you are playing on doing can you get buy with a a 9700 pro or 9600 pro? once again the money could be used in a scsi setup for instance?


i would recpmmend 2 x 512mb dimms. Depending on how much photoshop you do and what sort of files you manilpulate i would not recommend anything less than a gig...
if later you find this isn't enough then you can add another 2x 512mb dimms as required.

In general my rule of thumb is never spend a lot of money on parts you will likely replace soon, eg cpu's, video cards etc. getting a top of the range LCD monitor which will last at least 5 years is a much better option



i have the logichtech mx duo (elite keyboard and mx700 mouse) and though i don't do a lot of gaming seems fine for freelancer and that is all aim and fire from the mouse while you fly, and use of the leyboard at the same time...

 

[jfall]

I would drop the 3.2 to a 3.0 or lower. Definiately no sense in filling up all your ram slots and only have 1gig to show for it. I would say get two 512's for now and have the extra slots to upgrade if need be in the future. I would get the 128mb version of the 9800 pro instead of the 256.

 

[Lonyo]

Get the 9800Pro 128MB from CompUSA for $300 after rebate.
The extra 128MB isn't giving any increase in performance in current games, and by the time 256MB is needed, you'll be wanting a new card (I'm guessing you're fairly loaded )

Get a P4 2.8GHz, price premiums for higher aren't worth it, and you can overclock.

Check Anandtechs article about the search for the memory holy grail, get 4 x 512MB stick of TwinMOS PC3700 (or some other PC3700, I just have a personal preference for TwinMOS). Don't bother with sets because usually they just add a premium to the prices, which isn't worth it, because as long as you get 4 sticks of the same type, they're most probably going to work together.
As the Anandtech article indicated, 4 stick of RAM offers better performance than 2 sticks.

Despite the slightly lower overclock possible with four DIMMs, the best 1:1 performance is still with four DIMMs. For example, DDR516 using four DIMMs out-performs DDR530 with two DIMMs ? since the four DIMMs are about 7% to 10% higher in UNBuffered memory performance.

If you plan to run DDR400 as your base memory speed with an 800FSB processor, your best memory performance will clearly be with four matched double-sided DIMMs

Memory article

You can then overclock your P4 2.8/2.6 or whatever you get, to probably 3.2 or higher without much problem.
The price premium for 3.2 or 3.0 isn't worth it.

Just my $0.02

 

[amonster]

I have been away on vacation, and just got to catch up on the postings!

I really appreciate the input from everybody. I will most likely scale down the processor and the video RAM and see what kind of money I can put towards a SCSI setup if folks seem to think that SCSI will outperform RAID 0 Raptors.

Assuming I have a lot to spend, what kind of SCSI setup would be the highest performing? 1 drive? 2? (one for backup?), which SCSI drives would be the fastest for my current setup? Could I use 2 drives and have the OS and swap file on one and files on the other for a speedier setup? I have almost no SCSI experience, so please anyone who does let me know.

Thanks again to everyone, I'll let you know what I decide!!