Existence of the "historical Jesus" increasingly questioned by scholars

[SlowSpyder]

Atheistic denial is strong in this one....

You continue to do this in these threads. Call something a talking point or make a one liner that addresses nothing.

Corrected for the sake of accuracy -- Also, like usual, Texashiker's arguments are the most logical in this thread.

Christianity has exactly the same things going for it that other religions that you and I dismiss have going for them. That is, no real evidence and some texts with interesting stories and proclamations. What sets christianity a part in your mind?

 

[Retro Rob]

For example, the Reed Sea was a marshland subject to heavy tides. Moses set fires at night to blind his pursuers while he withdrew during low tide across the Reed Sea. As dawn broke and the Egyptians saw the retreat, they gave chase, but the tides were coming back in, making the Reed Sea impassable. To the uneducated who didn't understand tides, that could very well seem like Moses had parted the sea before them and caused it to flow back in and drown their enemies behind them.

If this is true, then you have to explain something...the Bible said the Egyptians died (verse 28), and they, as an army, when into the waters (Ex 14:13-31)

Could a whole army drown in a "marsh"? Of course not, however, when faced with this issue, you'd just say the Bible is "lying".

How convenient...the Bible suddenly "lies" when naturalism fails to explain something it explained earlier.

 

[xBiffx]

Then it should be clear why christians can't disprove any of the other many deities that other religions claim to be real and true making each of those just as plausible if 'you can't prove jesus doesn't exist' statement is an argument of theirs.

OK? Not sure where I said anything to the contrary.

Unless you were just using my statement as a way to make a statement of your own, but not necessarily directed at me? In that case, ok, no problem.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Between Texas, Rob, and Jedi it would be very difficult to decide who is dumber. I have a feeling that Jedi is just trolling though so he might be disqualified.

I wouldn't group Rob with them. I've often stated that anyone with the word "JEDI" in his/her screen name on AT is really, really, REALLY dumb, and this thread is just further evidence to support my hypothesis.

 

[SlowSpyder]

OK? Not sure where I said anything to the contrary.

It was meant as a general comment, not you. I wrote it quickly, didn't mean it as 'you'.

Unless you were just using my statement as a way to make a statement of your own, but not necessarily directed at me? In that case, ok, no problem.

:thumbsup:

Yup, could have maybe written it better, but that is how it was meant, general comment.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Christianity has exactly the same things going for it that other religions that you and I dismiss have going for them. That is, no real evidence and some texts with interesting stories and proclamations. What sets christianity a part in your mind?

When I was younger, that is exactly what started me down what I call the path to enlightenment. People would laugh at ancient religions such as the Greek and Roman gods, but when I thought about it, Christians had no more proof than the Greeks or Romans did that their religion was true.

 

[Retro Rob]

If this is true, then you have to explain something...the Bible said the Egyptians died (verse 28), and they, as an army, when into the waters (Ex 14:13-31)

Could a whole army drown in a "marsh"? Of course not, however, when faced with this issue, you'd just say the Bible is "lying".

How convenient...the Bible suddenly "lies" when naturalism fails to explain something it explained earlier.

..and FWIW, this is what a "marsh" looks like:

Highly doubt you could drown an army in here.

 

[IronWing]

When I was younger, that is exactly what started me down what I call the path to enlightenment. People would laugh at ancient religions such as the Greek and Roman gods, but when I thought about it, Christians had no more proof than the Greeks or Romans did that their religion was true.

Not true. Christians have the Quoran! ()🙂

 

[SlowSpyder]

When I was younger, that is exactly what started me down what I call the path to enlightenment. People would laugh at ancient religions such as the Greek and Roman gods, but when I thought about it, Christians had no more proof than the Greeks or Romans did that their religion was true.

Me too largely. My perspective was more of, "Hey, this is popular here but not other places, why is it others believe every bit as much in their faith as christians like myself believe in mine?" And the more I looked for something that made christianity standout as the obvious correct religion, the more I found that it really is just like the other religions of the world with no real reason to put more faith into it than anything else. In fact, while searching I found the opposite, how christianity (and other figures from the bible) seemed to be mostly plagiarized from other older religions. I think that was really an eye opener for me. I asked my 'born again' sister about that, she told me that satan and demons probably planted those seeds in history to deceive us today. :\

 

[waggy]

..and FWIW, this is what a "marsh" looks like:

Highly doubt you could drown an army in here.

while i don't think the story is right. Many people have died in marsh's. you get stuck and exhausted. or they are simply deeper then they look



edit; LOL Christians not being violent.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I asked my 'born again' sister about that, she told me that satan and demons probably planted those seeds in history to deceive us today. :\

Yeah, that's like the fundamentalists who claim the earth is 6,000-10,000 years old and say things like Satan planted dinosaur bones to fool us into thinking the earth was older. lol!

 

[thraashman]

Corrected for the sake of accuracy -- Also, like usual, Texashiker's arguments are the most logical in this thread.

I'm largely staying out of this entire argument. I'm atheist so clearly my view on this situation would be biased by my beliefs (or lack thereof). But to claim that Texashiker is saying anything that isn't idiotic and absurd is something without bias. He is provably and factually wrong and silly. Like in EVERY thread he posts in. To defend him is to attack the very essence of logical discussion and I simply cannot stay out of THAT argument.

 

[doubledeluxe]

As a complete side note, on the topic of marshes, check out the Tollund Man. Guy died 350BC. It's pretty amazing.

 

[Retro Rob]

while i don't think the story is right. Many people have died in marsh's. you get stuck and exhausted. or they are simply deeper then they look



edit; LOL Christians not being violent.

Well we can test this hypothesis -- lets take an army, with horses and Chariots, and see if people don't have sense enough to get back on land.

Horses get stuck and tired, humans get off of them and swim once they realize what's going on.

 

[waggy]

As a complete side note, on the topic of marshes, check out the Tollund Man. Guy died 350BC. It's pretty amazing.

oh yeah forgot about that. i remember reading about it.

 

[soulcougher73]

Thread ruined. Jedi showed up with his delusions and ignorance. And just when you think it cant get worse than TH, you are proved wrong.

 

[soulcougher73]

so far we have somebody with just under 400 links trying his best to contribute when he keeps putting his foot in his mouth...over and over again...

so far we have somebody with just under 25000 posts trying his best to contribute when he keeps putting his foot in his mouth...over and over again...

Ouch!

 

[soulcougher73]

Between Texas, Rob, and Jedi it would be very difficult to decide who is dumber. I have a feeling that Jedi is just trolling though so he might be disqualified.

At least Rob tries, ill give him that. He "mostly" stays sane and doesnt personal attack and say outright ridiculous things. Jedi and TH are both delusional in different ways.

 

[soulcougher73]

Me too largely. My perspective was more of, "Hey, this is popular here but not other places, why is it others believe every bit as much in their faith as christians like myself believe in mine?" And the more I looked for something that made christianity standout as the obvious correct religion, the more I found that it really is just like the other religions of the world with no real reason to put more faith into it than anything else. In fact, while searching I found the opposite, how christianity (and other figures from the bible) seemed to be mostly plagiarized from other older religions. I think that was really an eye opener for me. I asked my 'born again' sister about that, she told me that satan and demons probably planted those seeds in history to deceive us today. :\

This is pretty much how i came around to my ideas on religion/christanity as well.

 

[Retro Rob]

As a complete side note, on the topic of marshes, check out the Tollund Man. Guy died 350BC. It's pretty amazing.

I didnt say people cannot die in marshes, but a whole army, that was dominate at the time, could strategize and allegedly hold slaves, died in a marsh and couldnt catch an old man who "set a fire"?

Thats like saying the entire US army died of starvation because they couldn't find their way out of a Forest.

 

[soulcougher73]

I didnt say people cannot die in marshes, but a whole army, that was dominate at the time, could strategize and allegedly hold slaves, died in a marsh and couldnt catch an old man who "set a fire"?

Thats like saying the entire US army died of starvation because they couldn't find their way out of a Forest.

I agree. That would fall under "extraordinary" claims. Even today 🙂

 

[doubledeluxe]

There is no evidence to support that happening let alone it being reasonable.

 

[Retro Rob]

I agree. That would fall under "extraordinary" claims. Even today 🙂

Actually, this is a natural explanation, so the hypothesis can be proven...I would call that highly unlikely.

However, like I said, this can be tested and the likelihood determined.

 

[SlowSpyder]

There is no evidence to support that happening let alone it being reasonable.

Yup, zero evidence to support any kind of exodus or wandering around for 40 years in a forest. You would think that when Egypt's pharaoh, and in many cases those in his kingdom, saw the Red Sea parted or witness the seven plagues up to and including the death of every first born male, someone would have jotted something down.

Also of interest:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus

 

[OverVolt]

Actually a note on that. I was raised Catholic (haven't practiced since high school) and attended Catholic school all the way through high school. One of the most interesting religion classes I had, which was taught by a priest (with a degree in science), spent most of the time explaining how "miracles" and such contained in the Bible could be explained by natural phenomenon. It was quite interesting, especially considering the setting.

The manna in the desert thing? Yeah, pretty interesting.