Excellent video regarding "dumbing down" games

[Sulaco]

Megaman also functioned from a 4 way Dpad and 2 buttons as you progressed in 2d fashion. gameplay is very obvious. 2d and 3d games is apples and oranges.
But many old games have tooltips. Super mario 4 comming to mind.

I'm not sure what that proves, if anything. Have you played either Super Mario Galaxy game? There are tips and guides at the beginning of every level, and scattered throughout the level as well.
Hell, both SMG and Donkey Kong Country Returns have the option of letting the CPU complete the level for you if you die too many times.

and if COD was somehow released in all its glory on some fantasy machine back when Metroid came out...guess which one us kids would be drooling over. I think the debate of modern vs yesteryear games is moot.

I'm not sure what you're arguing for here, but I can't think of a worse barometer for the quality of a game than what kids would "drool" over.

 

[Ichinisan]

Millions (*) of people all over the world prove you wrong everyday by playing older games. Why do they do it? Maybe you should go enlighten them as to how wrong they are.

In fact, lets stop development of MAME and destroy the source code. Clearly it has no place in the modern world with modern games. Lets also remove any and all older games from Steam, GOG.com, XBLA, PSN and WiiWare - why bother putting those there, no one will ever play them since old games are 100% better in every way that they could ever be better?

Lets also halt those forums where they talk about older games, like Sorcerers Place, gibberlings3, any emulation forum, um lots others.

/sarcasm over

(*) numbers not actually known but assumed to be high otherwise there wouldnt be so many proponents of classic gaming.

Come on dude, I admit some modern games are good, cant you admit some classic games are better than their newer counterparts?

My NES stays connected to a 52" HDTV and I recently completed Sunsoft's Batman (NES) for the first time about a week ago. Had so much fun, I played through the whole game 3 more times since then.

Also played Mario Kart 64 multiplayer battle for hours last night with friends...as we often do (SO much better than the multiplayer modes in any other Mario Kart game).

 

[Ichinisan]

I realized this dumbing-down thing had gone too far when I played the GBA remake of Super Mario Bros 3. At first, I knew something was wrong. 1-ups are popping up out of everything. You walk forward and a 1-up pops out of the background from nowhere. The game allows you to save anywhere (you don't even need to reach a milestone like a mini fortress) and doesn't reset your lives, so you're pretty-much guaranteed to have 99 lives before you play through the first few worlds. Even if you deliberately lose all your lives to test, it doesn't set you back. Lives are...COMPLETELY POINTLESS. If I recall correctly, you can freely travel back to completed worlds and replay to get more items and lives (as if you'd ever need them).

Then I noticed that even the first two enemies you encounter were simplified. There's a plant near the beginning of the first stage. In the NES version, it shoots slow-moving fireballs at you, so you have to be aware and avoid the fireballs while collecting the first mushroom from the item blocks. They changed it to a regular (non-fiery) piranha plant in the GBA game.

I rest my case.

 

[Veliko]

I realized this dumbing-down thing had gone too far when I played the GBA remake of Super Mario Bros 3. At first, I knew something was wrong. 1-ups are popping up out of everything. You walk forward and a 1-up pops out of the background from nowhere. The game allows you to save anywhere (you don't even need to reach a milestone like a mini fortress) and doesn't reset your lives, so you're pretty-much guaranteed to have 99 lives before you play through the first few worlds. Even if you deliberately lose all your lives to test, it doesn't set you back. Lives are...COMPLETELY POINTLESS. If I recall correctly, you can freely travel back to completed worlds and replay to get more items and lives (as if you'd ever need them).

In Super Mario All Stars on the SNES you could save wherever you wanted in SMB3.

 

[Ichinisan]

In Super Mario All Stars on the SNES you could save wherever you wanted in SMB3.

It didn't start you in the same level, on the pause screen. It didn't save your livescards and coins.

In fact, I think it set you back to the beginning of that world or the mini fortress (not even the level you were on.

Testing now...

 

[Ichinisan]

I was right. It's not even close. I picked a save just now and started in World 3 with 50-something lives and 0 coins. I started as regular, tiny Mario with no power-up.

Finished a level with the Fireflower power-up and then did Save+Quit. Loaded the save file without even powering-off and the level was no longer complete. I believe coins and lives also reverted. I'm going to test one more time...

 

[Ichinisan]

Yup. Points, coins, cards and completed levels are not saved...only the lives and the world you are in. I still think it might save your completed levels up to the mini fortress. I'm testing that now...

 

[Ichinisan]

It remembers that you cleared the mini fortress and the corresponding map screen barrier, but the levels you completed are all reset...exactly what happens when you get Game Over on NES.

So, saving in the SNES remake is like getting Game Over on NES and using a continue. Saving on GBA is like resuming from a paused game, and running out of lives has no consequence at all.

 

[gothamhunter]

You could have condensed all those into one post Ichinisan. lol

 

[Veliko]

Well remember that the GBA is a portable system so it will need that sort save system whereas on the original NES that wasn't the case. In fact I think Wario World on the original Gameboy let you save like that.

 

[Ichinisan]

You could have condensed all those into one post Ichinisan. lol

I considered it, but then I also wanted the timestamps and photos I took to match-up if anyone asked. Also, I'm typing with an iPod over VNC to my HTPC with the Win7 magnification utility. Ugh.

Well remember that the GBA is a portable system so it will need that sort save system whereas on the original NES that wasn't the case.

I'm perfectly fine with a suspend-resume type of save system on a portable game. What they did was so MUCH more than just that. They didn't have to remove fireballs, shower you with 1-ups, and make "Game Over" inconsequential.

In fact I think Wario World on the original Gameboy let you save like that.

I'm pretty sure Warioland (Super Mario Land 3) worked like Super Mario World.

 

[coloumb]

Dumbing down games:

Is this not a better example?

That's an awesome example...

The latest Deus Ex sorta brought back memories of old school games.

 

[TheSlamma]

In many games you can turn off all the tutorial stuff.