Exceed stated CPU support on a mobo?

[TheJTrain]

I've got a mobo whose spec says it supports Athlon/Duron CPUs up to 1.3 GHz. What would happen if I used a 1.4 GHz CPU in it? Extra heat, no boot, would only run at 1.3GHz, etc.?

Jason

 

[Kenazo]

what are the specs on the 1.4? Is it a 133 fsb cpu or a 100? The mobo probably only supports 100 fsb, so if you put in a 133 cpu, it will run much slower. (at 1050mhz).

 

[TheJTrain]

According to what info is available to me, the mobo supports up to 1.3 GHz at 200 MHz FSB, and the CPU is a 1.4 GHz Duron that supports up to 266 MHz FSB What do you think?

Thanks for the help,
Jason

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: TheJTrain
According to what info is available to me, the mobo supports up to 1.3 GHz at 200 MHz FSB, and the CPU is a 1.4 GHz Duron that supports up to 266 MHz FSB What do you think?

Thanks for the help,
Jason

Kenazo has it essentially correct. if your mobo supports only 100 MHz FSB (200 DDR), like you say then it will run at about 1 GHz instead of 1.3. You'd be better off getting/paying for a 1.2 GHz running at 100 MHz.
As to more specifics, it would probably boot without too much trouble but only at the speed mentioned above. There is a slight chance it wouldn't boot though. If that were the case you could just reinstall your original CPU. You would probably have to redo your BIOS settings also, so you might want to make note of them before you start the experimentation. Yes, there would probably be more heat than your current cpu.

 

[TheJTrain]

Thanks for the reply, Buz2b.

The info I have on the mobo is that it supports 200 MHz FSB but only has SDRAM DIMM slots - since it can't support DDR, is the info inaccurate, and it really should say 100 MHz FSB? And therefore I should get a CPU that runs only at 100 MHz?

On another note re: your mention of resetting BIOS settings, I have another machine (my main one, the one I'm asking about above is one I'm building for my mom) where I have upgraded the CPU twice, but the BIOS info screen on boot-up (without going into the BIOS menu) still lists the original CPU speed (1.4 GHz) rather than what's in there now (2.2 GHz). Is it locked on a 1.4 GHz speed or is what I see on that screen irrelevant to system performance? If it does matter, how can I change it? I'm running an ECS K7S5A and haven't seen any setting relating to CPU speed in the BIOS menu.

Thanks again,
Jason

 

[Kenazo]

you might be able to overclock the system and run it at 133fsb (DDR 266). If you could do that, the cpu should hit 1400 speeds. However, be careful doing this, since the PCI clock, AGP clock etc will also rise. It might work, might not.

And in regards to your computer displaying that it is running a 1400 instead of the 2200 that you have in there... It is running your 2200 @ 1400 then. Basically you updated and haven't been using the benefits of the faster CPU this whole time. Check the Front Side Bus options, make sure they are set right, (set to 133 or 266, whichever option your mobo has), also check the clock multiplier. be sure it is set right.

 

[TheJTrain]

Ok, first issue (new mobo @ 100/200 MHz): if I ran a CPU that's capable of 266 MHz FSB at only 100 MHz FSB, wouldn't it run cooler (albeit slower)? So if this is true, I would think that a 1.4 would run at 1 GHz on a 100 MHz FSB, and run cooler than a 1 GHz on the same FSB speed. Right?

Second issue (old mobo, replaced CPU): Dang! But in the BIOS menu of the K7S5A, I can tweak the FSB (which I always set to 133/133 with DDR RAM installed), and there's no way to change the clock multiplier (it's grayed out in the menu).

Thanks for the help,
Jason

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: TheJTrain
Ok, first issue (new mobo @ 100/200 MHz): if I ran a CPU that's capable of 266 MHz FSB at only 100 MHz FSB, wouldn't it run cooler (albeit slower)? So if this is true, I would think that a 1.4 would run at 1 GHz on a 100 MHz FSB, and run cooler than a 1 GHz on the same FSB speed. Right?

Second issue (old mobo, replaced CPU): Dang! But in the BIOS menu of the K7S5A, I can tweak the FSB (which I always set to 133/133 with DDR RAM installed), and there's no way to change the clock multiplier (it's grayed out in the menu).

Thanks for the help,
Jason

They are not talking about the multiplier; just the FSB. If you have an AMD 2200+ CPU, it runs @ 1800. That is what you might see in the BIOS but on boot it should show 2200+ cpu. Either you have something set wrong or you were ripped buying the CPU. But I would make darned sure you check all the BIOS setting first.
As to the issue of a 1.4 running cooler since it would be "underclocked". Yes and no. It will run a bit cooler than it would at full speed, however, the 1.4 was one of the hottest running CPU's in its prime. Even underclocked it could still run hotter than a 1 GHz. It may not be a great deal; it's just something that no one really keeps info on. Why is this so important though? Is the system lacking good cooling or is the HSF a bit underpowered?

 

[TheJTrain]

Ok, WinXP recognizes it as a 1.79 GHz CPU, so I guess that's how fast it's running, even though the BIOS screen says 1600 (I was mistaken with the 1400, the 1600 is the middle upgrade, before my 2200+). So I guess I'm ok there.

With the 1.4 being underclocked - I'm trying to build a fanless (except for the PSU, fanless PSUs are too pricey) system, so I'm trying to make sure it doesn't get too hot, not having a fan on the CPU heatsink. I guess I oughta go with a 1 GHz - I don't really need the extra 300 MHz I suppose.

Thanks!
Jason

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: TheJTrain
Ok, WinXP recognizes it as a 1.79 GHz CPU, so I guess that's how fast it's running, even though the BIOS screen says 1600 (I was mistaken with the 1400, the 1600 is the middle upgrade, before my 2200+). So I guess I'm ok there.

With the 1.4 being underclocked - I'm trying to build a fanless (except for the PSU, fanless PSUs are too pricey) system, so I'm trying to make sure it doesn't get too hot, not having a fan on the CPU heatsink. I guess I oughta go with a 1 GHz - I don't really need the extra 300 MHz I suppose.

Thanks!
Jason

Hate to tell you but you still have a problem with your BIOS, although it may be minor. If what you are reading at boot is the actual speed it recognizes, you might want to reset the BIOS. Just a thought.
I see your need for less heat and wish you luck. That's going to be darned hard to do with an AMD processor. I've seen similar things done with Intel cpu's but I don't think I've seen it with AMD, whick tend to run hotter. Good Luck!

 

[TheJTrain]

Hmm, I've reset the bios several times since upgrading to the 2200+ (it's a K7S5A, and I've had the common Lost CMOS problem), even replaced the CMOS battery (it's stable now, thankfully). Not sure what else I could do with the BIOS to make it recognize the new CPU.

As for the heat, maybe I'll look into an Intel setup, rather than AMD (I had forgotten that AMDs tend to run hotter than Intels). Thanks!

 

[Peter]

That an original K7S5A, not a "pro"? If the former, then its BIOS doesn't have "Applebred" Duron support, hence, no Durons above 1.3 GHz.

AMD processors running hotter than Intel's? You guys are joking, right? If not, then where have you been lately? AMD's 32-bit CPUs run way cooler than Intel's current P4 offerings - and if you want even less power consumption, you can put a "mobile" AMD processor into a desktop board just as well. These run at a lower voltage, and are otherwise fully compatible.
Top of the line AMD Athlon XP desktop processors are still below 80 watts (worst case - typical is a lot lower), while Intel P4 has just leapt over the 100 watt threshold. Go figure.

 

[TheJTrain]

Originally posted by: Peter
That an original K7S5A, not a "pro"? If the former, then its BIOS doesn't have "Applebred" Duron support, hence, no Durons above 1.3 GHz.

AMD processors running hotter than Intel's? You guys are joking, right? If not, then where have you been lately? AMD's 32-bit CPUs run way cooler than Intel's current P4 offerings - and if you want even less power consumption, you can put a "mobile" AMD processor into a desktop board just as well. These run at a lower voltage, and are otherwise fully compatible.
Top of the line AMD Athlon XP desktop processors are still below 80 watts (worst case - typical is a lot lower), while Intel P4 has just leapt over the 100 watt threshold. Go figure.

Thanks for the input, but I probably wasn't clear on the issues: the Duron I was looking at was going on a mobo I don't have yet, not my K7S5A. The K7S5A is in my main box and has had Athlon XPs in it the whole time, and appears not to have recognized the latest upgrade to 2200+.

As for heat, what runs hotter, a 1 GHz Duron or a 1 GHz Celeron? I was never looking at Athlons or P3/P4s, going for budget over power.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Buz2b]

Peter, the cpu's we/I were referring to were earlier generation Athlons/Durons. He was speaking of a 1.4 at first, along with a 1 GHz. Those (especially the 1.4) ran hotter than most. Hence my comments. I was in no way comparing today's P4's in the mix although I did make mention of a "fanless" system I had seen with a Intel processor (not entirely sure which one but I will look again). I have never seen one built on an AMD system.

 

[Peter]

Ah, thanks. Now I see clearer. That'll teach JTrain to intermangle two issues in one thread

OK. Running a Thunderbird 1400 at 1000 (1050 actually, then) will give you the exact same thermals as using an actual 1000. It's the same die, running at the same voltage. Yes, T-bird 1400 used a lot of power.

K7S5A, pro or older, does recognize and run 2200+ and even 2400+ absolutely fine and no problem - provided you got a recent BIOS in it.

Fanless systems can be done with any kind of processor, as long as you're (a) targeting low environmental temperatures and (b) providing some kind of thermal throttling - and that can be done with any CPU.

 

[TheJTrain]

Buz2b - any other recommendations on my K7S5A not recognizing the 2200+? Sounds like Peter would suggest a BIOS update - something I've never done as flashing the BIOS scares the bejeezus out of me. ;-)

I've decided to go with an Intel 1GHz setup for my fanless server, thanks for the suggestion.

Jason

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: TheJTrain
Buz2b - any other recommendations on my K7S5A not recognizing the 2200+? Sounds like Peter would suggest a BIOS update - something I've never done as flashing the BIOS scares the bejeezus out of me. ;-)

I've decided to go with an Intel 1GHz setup for my fanless server, thanks for the suggestion.

Jason

Jason,
Yeah, the BIOS flash procedure scares the bejeesus out of most of us at first. Yes, you have to have respect for and take care of the details but it is not so scary once you've done a couple. I won't crowd this thread with procedural things on that unless you want me to. Basically, if you just simply follow directions, your chances of success are overwhelming; the chances of "frying your system" are almost nill.
As to your system not seeming to recognize your cpu properly, I would do the following. First, I would reset the BIOS (as mentioned before). That means shutting down, disconnecting the ATX power connection to the MB, and putting the CMOS jumper on "Clear". Leave it there for a few minutes, then put it back to "Normal", reconnect the ATX power connector and reboot the system. When you do you will need to go into the BIOS (if you are not automatically sent there) to reset your BIOS settings. During that process, make sure you set the FSB settings to 133/133 and all other timings. If you are not too familiar with the BIOS settings, go to this site and you will find some help. Make sure you scroll down about 2/3 of the page to click on the "Free version" of the guide. Trust me, it is VERY informative.
If that doesn't work (and your CPU still isn't recognized properly), then I would suggest a BIOS flash. Yes, the horrible, terrible, probably going to kill my wonderful system BIOS flash. :Q In fact, I would go to this forum for the latest info on BIOS for that MB. You might want to look into the "Cheapoman BIOS" offerings that are listed there also. An option might be to offer up your problem with CPU recognition there also. There are some pretty knowledgable people (on that MB) there.
If you want more assistance on Flashing your BIOS, you can PM me and I can give you some pointers. Or we could "morph" this thread into that info also. No probs here.
Probably a good idea changing to the 1 GHz Intel cpu for the fanless unit. There will probably be less heat to deal with. What kind of Heatsink were you looking to use for this?

 

[TheJTrain]

Thanks Buz2b - I'll make it a point to give it a shot soon - hope it works! I'll keep you in mind and PM you if it looks like I need help.

As for the fanless system, I figured I'd need a powerhouse heatsink, so I went with the Zalman CNPS6000Cu - if it seems to run too hot I can hook up a 92mm fan on a Zalman Fanmate, see if that helps.

Thanks again,
Jason

 

[Buz2b]

From the looks of the specs on the heatsink, you stand a good chance of going "fanless". Just make sure you have good monitoring software to keep watch on the temps. MBM5 is a pretty good one that is popular with most folks.
Don't put off the "fixes" for your main system. You are only holding your system back. Good Luck!