Discussion Example of using data driven approach to cut through nutrition confusion.

[Heartbreaker]

So often people get confused by reasonable sounding influencers and "experts" showcasing conflicting nutrition advice leading many to believe that there is no evidence for well established nutritional facts.

But if you apply some discipline and have a sense of what qualifies as evidence, you can weed through the BS. But I recognize that not everyone is willing or able to do that.

I stumbled across this very well done video, taking this detailed analytical approach, to really highlight just how overwhelming the evidence is for baseline established nutritional facts, that are routinely being denied without any real evidence.

This scientist analyzes a Joe Rogan video featuring a Carnivore doctor, and clearly shows by the heavy preponderance of the highest quality evidence for the causal nature of high cholesterol in heart disease, and for the benefits of eating your damn veggies. Two parts because he's looking at a long video, and because he is painstaking about the evidence, he also links every study in the video notes.

 

[Torn Mind]

Well, he could have mentioned TG/HDL levels being a stronger predictor...

Vegetable oils might work in studies, but they are frying oils. And they don't well when fried nor do they keep well over a longer time frame.

He also brings up statin studies in lowering LDL and thus cardiovascular events.

The matter is that in general, there is wave people who now know that diet can avoid having to reach the state where a statin is necessary; the conflicting in formation is which, as the likes of Greger advocates for veganism while the guy on Rogan goes for carnivore.

As for trans far, yeah no one knew, but the kill count from that "best-of-intentions" advice is high and probably far more deadly that what precipitated Occupy Wall Street.

I have low regard for nutritional science. Variable disambiguation seems to be a mental hurdle. RCTs don't have the weight this guy is trying impose on the viewer because sampling matters and confounding variables matters.

Pure carnivore seems unstainable...if in literally carnivore and the meat is deprived of spices and seasonings. I can only see those who have a genetic preference for salty foods sticking to such a diet. And even so, they probably don't eat heart, liver, or offal like wild predators.

Someday, fermented vegetables will have their day in the sun as the superior food to the predominantly tasteless usual veggies. Actually, they already are but scientific myopia can sure lead people not noticing it(Guizhou is not the place to eat mild boring vegetables. The shit is pungent and salty).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Blood type may be a factor. Maybe the carnivore doctor has blood type O which makes him metabolize meat better so based on his personal experiences, he is unwittingly recommending the same to others?

O-Positive Blood Type Diet: What to Eat and Limit, Benefits, and Risks

The blood type diet claims that following a specific diet and exercise regimen based on your blood type can optimize your health. However, research on its effects is very limited. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

Another study in PLOS OneTrusted Source maintained that the O blood type diet lowered serum triglycerides, consistent with other low-carbohydrate diets. The study didn’t find a link between the recommended diet and blood type, however.

 

[nakedfrog]

Blood type may be a factor. Maybe the carnivore doctor has blood type O which makes him metabolize meat better so based on his personal experiences, he is unwittingly recommending the same to others?

O-Positive Blood Type Diet: What to Eat and Limit, Benefits, and Risks

The blood type diet claims that following a specific diet and exercise regimen based on your blood type can optimize your health. However, research on its effects is very limited. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

LOL
I took a glance at what I "should" be eating with my A+ blood, he claims I ought to have a sensitive immune system, you should ask anyone that knows me if that seems to be the case. I eat more like what a type O person "should" be eating, lost weight, and have successfully kept it off for over two years now. I'm extremely skeptical... maybe more so since you're the one espousing it.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Blood type may be a factor. Maybe the carnivore doctor has blood type O which makes him metabolize meat better so based on his personal experiences, he is unwittingly recommending the same to others?

O-Positive Blood Type Diet: What to Eat and Limit, Benefits, and Risks

The blood type diet claims that following a specific diet and exercise regimen based on your blood type can optimize your health. However, research on its effects is very limited. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

Did you watch the video?

The Carnivore doctor has LDL cholesterol of over 500! That doesn't sound like he's metabolizing meat better.

You seem ever receptive to snake oil. Blood Type diet is debunked (multiple times) nonsense, including by your own link.

these associations were independent of an individual's ABO genotype, so the findings do not support the ‘Blood-Type’ diet hypothesis.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Eskimos have a diet consisting of way too much animal fat. That doesn't kill them. Possibly because their body has adapted to their diet. The carnivore doctor isn't dead for the same reason.

The blood type diet deserves its own thread but it would be futile discussing that topic because no one wants to keep an open mind. I'm B+. I have had digestive issues since birth. Wheat makes me gain weight like a cow. Rice doesn't do the same kind of damage to me as long as I don't over eat it. My immune system is hyper active. I can't speak for other blood types but for me, it makes complete sense. But I don't follow the blood type diet strictly. It would be too restrictive. I just keep wheat to an absolute minimum. I don't know if the blood type diet works. But people with the same blood type sharing personality traits and health issues just makes logical sense to me.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Eskimos have a diet consisting of way too much animal fat. That doesn't kill them. Possibly because their body has adapted to their diet. The carnivore doctor isn't dead for the same reason.

🙄

Bad diet doesn't kill you in the short term. People looking for healthy diets are looking for a longer healthspan/lifespan.

Also the Eskimo marine high fat marine diet being cardioprotective is a myth stemming from badly done study from the 1970's.

https://www.onlinecjc.ca/article/S0828-282X(14)00237-2/fulltext

Most studies found that the Greenland Eskimos and the Canadian and Alaskan Inuit have CAD as often as the non-Eskimo populations. Notably, Bang and Dyerberg's studies from the 1970s did not investigate the prevalence of CAD in this population; however, their reports are still routinely cited as evidence for the cardioprotective effect of the “Eskimo diet.” We discuss the possible motives leading to the misinterpretation of these seminal studies.

Also arterial calcification found in some 500 year old Eskimo mummies of young adults, so pre-westernization:

Surprise: Ancient Inuit Mummy Scans Reveal Possible Heart Disease

Trio of 500-year-old mummies may have had atherosclerosis despite fishy diet.

www.discovermagazine.com

The mummies included an infant and four young adults: two males, ages estimated at 18 to 22 and 25 to 30, and two females, 16 to 18 and 25 to 30 years old. The cause of death could not be determined for any of the individuals.
...
Three of the four adult mummies had arterial calcifications — essentially, gunk that had built up in their arteries. These plaques are signs of atherosclerosis, which can lead to heart attack and stroke.

The blood type diet deserves its own thread but it would be futile discussing that topic because no one wants to keep an open mind.

You mean no one wants to believe psudo-science BS that is thoroughly debunked...

 

[igor_kavinski]

People looking for healthy diets are looking for a longer healthspan/lifespan.

Such people should go for the French high fat diet and drink red wine. Also, the French have a heavy lunch but a light dinner. That may also have something to do with their lower risk of CVD as their bodies have less metabolic waste to process during sleep. There was a recent study that concluded eating meat at dinner time was riskier in terms of inviting a coronary event than eating it earlier during the day.

 

[Torn Mind]

Such people should go for the French high fat diet and drink red wine. Also, the French have a heavy lunch but a light dinner. That may also have something to do with their lower risk of CVD as their bodies have less metabolic waste to process during sleep. There was a recent study that concluded eating meat at dinner time was riskier in terms of inviting a coronary event than eating it earlier during the day.

It's not that the French high fat is good in of itself. Just that they use better produced fatty foods very well. Cheese is beneficial because the fermentation produces vitamin K2 and also creates a good food matrix for the absorption of protein and calcium.

Single-Day Wine Tours from Paris, France - Le Foodist

The French take everything about their culinary experience seriously. Find out about the French attitude toward food and eating, what time they eat lunch, and what kind of choices they have. Here's a sample lunch menu with descriptions.

www.lefoodist.com

What I see is that even with the consumption of flour products, they consume diversely enough to cover all micros and they have little fear of fats like eggs and butter, thus they also do not deprive themselves of fat solubles.

WIth that said, they do tend to get pudgy later in life, however, the women probably suffer less mentally because there is no harsh stigma for not having a tight body.

 

[Torn Mind]

Eskimos have a diet consisting of way too much animal fat. That doesn't kill them. Possibly because their body has adapted to their diet. The carnivore doctor isn't dead for the same reason.

The blood type diet deserves its own thread but it would be futile discussing that topic because no one wants to keep an open mind. I'm B+. I have had digestive issues since birth. Wheat makes me gain weight like a cow. Rice doesn't do the same kind of damage to me as long as I don't over eat it. My immune system is hyper active. I can't speak for other blood types but for me, it makes complete sense. But I don't follow the blood type diet strictly. It would be too restrictive. I just keep wheat to an absolute minimum. I don't know if the blood type diet works. But people with the same blood type sharing personality traits and health issues just makes logical sense to me.

Blood type diet sounds ridiculous and almost like a neo-astrological way of eating.

Under no circumstances except allergy should fermented dairy be excluded from anyone's diet.

Telling type As to go fucking vegan is a load of bullshit. Meat proteins are better than dairy proteins, which are better than plant protein.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Such people should go for the French high fat diet and drink red wine. Also, the French have a heavy lunch but a light dinner. That may also have something to do with their lower risk of CVD as their bodies have less metabolic waste to process during sleep. There was a recent study that concluded eating meat at dinner time was riskier in terms of inviting a coronary event than eating it earlier during the day.

You are referring to the "French Paradox", which was essentially a fantasy, based on both under-reporting of French Heart disease, and over-reporting dietary saturated fat:

Ducimetiere on The French Paradox « Heart Attack Prevention

www.epi.umn.edu

We conclude that the time has come to relieve epidemiology of the French paradox. Much more attention should be paid to collecting reliable data to produce more satisfactory explanations for the complex causes of heart disease” He summarizes: “that CHD rates are not so low in France, animal fat intake not so high, and the diet-heart concept not so unique that the existence of a ‘French paradox’ might be sustained any more, except for satisfying cultural fantasy or business marketing.” (Ducimetiere 2008

 

[igor_kavinski]

You are referring to the "French Paradox", which was essentially a fantasy, based on both under-reporting of French Heart disease, and over-reporting dietary saturated fat:

Ducimetiere on The French Paradox « Heart Attack Prevention

www.epi.umn.edu

Man, you are a real life myth crusader 😱

Do you know any book that is a compilation of such myth busting facts?

 

[Heartbreaker]

Do you know any book that is a compilation of such myth busting facts?

No, I've just seen a lot of these come up before. The "French Paradox" has increased Red Wine sales a lot in the USA, but Red Wine is tested there is no effect. Also resveratrol, the wonder ingredient everyone zeroed in on turned out to be a bust as well in humans. There are some small benefits, but you need to drink many gallons of Red Wine for a therapeutic dose.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Description has some links to check in case you don't want to watch the video.

Any comments?

 

[Heartbreaker]

Outside of unpleasant Calorie Restriction there isn't much people can do to slow aging at this point. At some point there may be some kind of therapy or pill, but we aren't there yet, so I don't wast much time on it.

I just aim to be reasonably healthy, by trying to stick to a mostly whole plant food diet, and get some exercise...

 

[nakedfrog]

Blood type diet sounds ridiculous and almost like a neo-astrological way of eating.

Under no circumstances except allergy should fermented dairy be excluded from anyone's diet.

Telling type As to go fucking vegan is a load of bullshit. Meat proteins are better than dairy proteins, which are better than plant protein.

Well, he's also into numerology, soooo...

 

[Torn Mind]

I found out the scientist the OP referenced is a vegan. Now, that alone doesn't invalidate his points(that would be ad hominem). But it does mean he has his biases too.

(The reason I have a hair-trigger response in roasting vegans is because oily fish is the only thing that really cleared my brain fog after having a bout of COVID. I already rejected them but this experience simply makes my powder keg of a brain more volatile).

 

[igor_kavinski]

(The reason I have a hair-trigger response in roasting vegans is because oily fish is the only thing that really cleared my brain fog after having a bout of COVID.).

Makes sense. Brain is the most fatty organ in the body. Kidneys come second. The MUFAs in Avocado are also brain fuel.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I found out the scientist the OP referenced is a vegan. Now, that alone doesn't invalidate his points(that would be ad hominem). But it does mean he has his biases too.

(The reason I have a hair-trigger response in roasting vegans is because oily fish is the only thing that really cleared my brain fog after having a bout of COVID. I already rejected them but this experience simply makes my powder keg of a brain more volatile).

Everyone eats some kind of diet, unless he's a machine running on solar cells, so by your logic everyone is suspect.

He's not a philosophical vegan. He was just following the research and started eating less meat, and more plants, and kept moving in that direction following the research.

He's has the most unbiased presentation I have seen. He looks at this Vegan vs Mediterranean diet study that many Vegans were touting and proof of Vegan diet superiority, and shreds that pro vegan argument:

Or here where he attacks claims in "Seaspiracy" that eating fish is unhealthy. He counters that the Science basically says the opposite and that studies show eating fish is mainly linked with health benefits.

Regardless of what he personally eats, he just reports the science in the most unbiased ways I have seen.